Changes coming to AA Fire

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marksmith

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the marine radio antenna for Anne Arundel Fire is at the Greenberry Point Site
Explains a lot. Right on top of the activities around the Bay Bridge and practically in the middle of the bay off Annapolis.
Heard a lot of low powered radios during the swim and other events.

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maus92

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I think that was shortly before noon. I heard repeated mentions of Montgomery County but never heard the cancel. Long way for a mutual aid call.

Mark
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Not really. Maryland City to the Montgomery County line is only a few miles.
 

marksmith

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OK. I guess the corners of the counties do get pretty close at some point. Not normal to hear mutual aid calls between AA and Montgomery counties.

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FIREBOX2914

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OK. I guess the corners of the counties do get pretty close at some point. Not normal to hear mutual aid calls between AA and Montgomery counties.

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No. Which in reality is dumb because on any multi alarm fire in Maryland City, Several Montgomery [715, 712, 724] (and under utilized Howard {10,11, 9}) County Companies are alot close then units from Waugh Chapel, Glen Burnie, Etc.
 

marksmith

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No. Which in reality is dumb because on any multi alarm fire in Maryland City, Several Montgomery [715, 712, 724] (and under utilized Howard {10,11, 9}) County Companies are alot close then units from Waugh Chapel, Glen Burnie, Etc.
Was just looking at this on google maps. You have a good point.

AA has strong mutual response across county lines, some even on single alarm or medical calls with PG, Howard, Calvert, Queen Anne's, Baltimore City and County. To the point that they regularly have their units responding on the AA system.

Montgomery County is supposed to be the most radio savvy county out there (during the riots didn't have to use pool radios in Baltimore, just had their radios re-programmed)....
But I cannot remember hearing a Montgomery County Fire or Police unit ever responding on the AA system.

Mark
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maus92

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Was just looking at this on google maps. You have a good point.

AA has strong mutual response across county lines, some even on single alarm or medical calls with PG, Howard, Calvert, Queen Anne's, Baltimore City and County. To the point that they regularly have their units responding on the AA system.

Montgomery County is supposed to be the most radio savvy county out there (during the riots didn't have to use pool radios in Baltimore, just had their radios re-programmed)....
But I cannot remember hearing a Montgomery County Fire or Police unit ever responding on the AA system.

Mark
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Mutual aid responses are generally prearranged by agreements. I'm betting there isn't one in place, or if there is one, the response order isn't preprogrammed into the respective CAD systems.
 

marksmith

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Mutual aid responses are generally prearranged by agreements. I'm betting there isn't one in place, or if there is one, the response order isn't preprogrammed into the respective CAD systems.
Clearly the case. But just makes you wonder why. A couple miles is a lot shorter than 5-6 for first responders. Both are sort of big deal counties in Maryland. Maybe why they have not come to prearranged agreement?

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troymail

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A mutual aid response in either direction between Anne Arundel and Montgomery County would be a very rare thing - as was expressed in this thread. That's not to say it can't happen.

Anne Arundel has automatic mutual aid responses to/from the following jurisdictions on a daily basis:
Baltimore City
Baltimore County
Howard County
Prince George County
Calvert County
Queen Anne County
Fort Meade
Naval Academy

It's pretty rare to "jump over" neighboring counties.

On other rare occasions - like during the brush fires several years ago, Anne Arundel has had mutual aid come in from Talbot, Kent, Harford, and I think even some western Maryland counties. It's always a possibility but the likelihood is so remote (< 1 time a year if that), it's not necessarily something that is planned for in terms of "automatic" mutual aid (remember PG and DC fire being in Baltimore City in April? - I still think that was a first since maybe the late 60's if at all).

However, when the request is made, jurisdictions typically assist.
 

maus92

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A mutual aid response in either direction between Anne Arundel and Montgomery County would be a very rare thing - as was expressed in this thread. That's not to say it can't happen.

Anne Arundel has automatic mutual aid responses to/from the following jurisdictions on a daily basis:
Baltimore City
Baltimore County
Howard County
Prince George County
Calvert County
Queen Anne County
Fort Meade
Naval Academy

It's pretty rare to "jump over" neighboring counties.

On other rare occasions - like during the brush fires several years ago, Anne Arundel has had mutual aid come in from Talbot, Kent, Harford, and I think even some western Maryland counties. It's always a possibility but the likelihood is so remote (< 1 time a year if that), it's not necessarily something that is planned for in terms of "automatic" mutual aid (remember PG and DC fire being in Baltimore City in April? - I still think that was a first since maybe the late 60's if at all).

However, when the request is made, jurisdictions typically assist.

I guess there is an artificial barrier to setting up mutual aid responses with jurisdictions that are not contiguous. Seems a little short sighted in this particular case since only a few miles separate the counties
 

ResQguy

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(remember PG and DC fire being in Baltimore City in April? - I still think that was a first since maybe the late 60's if at all).

DC has responded to Baltimore City 3 times since 2010.
 

ResQguy

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I guess there is an artificial barrier to setting up mutual aid responses with jurisdictions that are not contiguous. Seems a little short sighted in this particular case since only a few miles separate the counties

Not artificial. There are a few reasons:
1. Anne Arundel is part of Baltimore Council of Governments (COG), and Montgomery is part of the Metropolitan Washington COG. There would have to be a special MOU between them for regular responses.
2. Because of the infrequency that the two might interoperate, they do not share communications capability other than NPSPAC channels.
3. The two jurisdictions have very little experience in working together, which could cause unnecessary confusion on the fireground. Working with the border counties more often decreases this likelyhood.
 

maus92

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Not artificial. There are a few reasons:
1. Anne Arundel is part of Baltimore Council of Governments (COG), and Montgomery is part of the Metropolitan Washington COG. There would have to be a special MOU between them for regular responses.
2. Because of the infrequency that the two might interoperate, they do not share communications capability other than NPSPAC channels.
3. The two jurisdictions have very little experience in working together, which could cause unnecessary confusion on the fireground. Working with the border counties more often decreases this likelyhood.

Not to be argumentative, but here I go :)

1) An MOU is just that; nothing mystical about it. True that Montgomery is part of the MWCOG, and AA is part of the Baltimore COG, but I would suggest that it's more of a cultural separation between the two regions than the membership of two different councils (like Skins vs. Ravens, O's vs. Nats.) Being members of different organizations and/or MSAs is not a valid excuse not to cooperate when logical / practical. Montgomery and Howard counties run mutual aid, and they are not in the same COG.

2) How hard is it to include Montgomery's EOC's number on speed dial, or vice versa? It's not, and it probably already is - it just getting people used to the idea that the jurisdictions are not that far apart. A few meetings, follow-up training could settle the issue, and the new equipment that both jurisdictions will be buying is certainly capable of supporting enhanced cooperation (radio and CAD.)

3) I grant you this, but we all take the MFRI courses (or equivalents) and the MIEMSS EMT / advanced courses. SOPs do vary of course - particularly on the fire side - but nothing insurmountable (SOPs vary between volunteer departments within Montgomery County.)
 
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ResQguy

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The MOU means you thought this through beforehand. This is very important when you get sued later.

Being able to extinguish a fire per MFRI doesn't mean you know another agency's SOGs (not everyone has SOPs) well enough to not get someone injured or killed. Montgomery regularly works with DC and PG, Anne Arundel Does the same with Baltimore & Howard, and to a lesser extent PG & Calvert.

I would rather have Laurel come here 100 times and take a few minutes longer than Burtonsville. Just because 810 knows their responsibilities before they arrive, whereas a less frequent visitor like 715 might have to seek direction before taking action.
 

ResQguy

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Ah- learn something new every day... what were the other events?

I believe there was a huge warehouse fire in 2010 and two simultaneous general alarms in 2011 or 12. I may have that backwards. DC has also gone to Charles twice in about the same timeframe.
 

maus92

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The MOU means you thought this through beforehand. This is very important when you get sued later.

Being able to extinguish a fire per MFRI doesn't mean you know another agency's SOGs (not everyone has SOPs) well enough to not get someone injured or killed. Montgomery regularly works with DC and PG, Anne Arundel Does the same with Baltimore & Howard, and to a lesser extent PG & Calvert.

I would rather have Laurel come here 100 times and take a few minutes longer than Burtonsville. Just because 810 knows their responsibilities before they arrive, whereas a less frequent visitor like 715 might have to seek direction before taking action.

Perhaps if they took the time to develop the MOU - and I didn't suggest not doing that - could be the starting point. There is no sense creating an artificial barrier and hiding behind it when resources are available and lives are at risk. Perhaps mutual aid responses could start with medical boxes and accident responses, then move into firefighting as the jurisdiction become more familiar with each other's procedures. And God forbid that they might even train together from time to time.
 

maus92

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Noticing today that Fire Alarm sounded especially noisy / staticky, particularly in the NW part of the county, but also on US50 near the Severn River Bridge. Not sure what was going on... atmospherics, IDK. But before the T-storms started to wind up.
 

marksmith

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Was out around BWI late morning listening and it seemed like the analog channels didn't sound as strong as normal, but not sure if there are some semi dead spots in that 170 area. Digital seemed OK.

Mark
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marksmith

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One thing I have noticed in the past weeks is that over-modulated sound that used to show up any time an analog talkgroup got 856.6375 as a voice channel is no longer there. Not sure when it stopped but I would say it has been months.

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troymail

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Could be because it's nearly the only analog things still around that I listen to but it seems some of the recent tech work on the AA system may have done something to reduce the power on the system. As I am driving around I routinely get static/weak reception in places in the county that seem unusual. In some cases, it's likely this is the result of cell towers but it definitely seems like more weak spots than in the past.

On another note - heard some playing around yesterday with a phone patch on the system. Haven't heard that for quite some time.
 
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