Changes coming to AA Fire

[troymail]

The BC SUVs have several radio heads set up in the back when they lift the gates, and I'm sure that the BC has a portable.

They do. However, remember that typically "command" is the first (or 2nd) arriving officer - usually a Capt, Lt, or FF from a suppression piece.

However, even when it's a Chief Officer, there's alot going on to have to pay attention to two different radios. In the days of "Field Communicaitons", there were always times here Fire Alarm would call command/field on the Field Communications" talkgroup and not get an answer so they'd switch to the fireground talkgroup and call them (on the 3rd or 4th attempt).

Part of the reason for eliminating the field comm talkgroup is that it could be a safety issue - command could miss a critical communication on the fireground while talking on the other talkgroup.

Do the BCs have drivers / assistants in AACo?

Generally, no.

Not sure what their personal capacity is to divide attention / delegate authorities. It was clear there was some amount of task saturation last night (and they needed water "yesterday" as someone said over the air.)

Last night, command was so busy, he didn't even call fire alarm to request a 2nd fireground talkgroup - he just "took it".

 

[marksmith]

They don't have drivers or named assistants.

Mark
536/436/WS1095/HP1/HP2/996T/996XT/996P2/396XT/325P2/PSR800/15X/others

 

[marksmith]

Last night, command was so busy, he didn't even call fire alarm to request a 2nd fireground talkgroup - he just "took it".

As I understand the hierarchy, "asking" is more of a formality than anything. As incident commander it's his call.

Mark
536/436/WS1095/HP1/HP2/996T/996XT/996P2/396XT/325P2/PSR800/15X/others

 

[maus92]

They don't have drivers or named assistants.

Mark
536/436/WS1095/HP1/HP2/996T/996XT/996P2/396XT/325P2/PSR800/15X/others

I've seen them with drivers / assistants before, but that may have been a City of Annapolis Chief - or perhaps someone who was assigned while on light duty....

 

[marksmith]

I've seen them with drivers / assistants before, but that may have been a City of Annapolis Chief - or perhaps someone who was assigned while on light duty....

I suspect that they ocassionally have a firefighter from the station, a light duty individual or other personnel available, and can use on scene personnel however they need, but I generally see them riding solo.

Mark
536/436/WS1095/HP1/HP2/996T/996XT/996P2/396XT/325P2/PSR800/15X/others

 

[marksmith]

In replaying the audio from Friday's fire, it was actually Fire Alarm that suggested to the incident commander a separate channel for water supply and later for staging. The first division to enter the main fire structure were assigned Foxtrot by the BC, and the breakdown of B and C divisions was done by the Incident Commander as well.

Mark
536/436/WS1095/HP1/HP2/996T/996XT/996P2/396XT/325P2/PSR800/15X/others

 

[troymail]

In replaying the audio from Friday's fire, it was actually Fire Alarm that suggested to the incident commander a separate channel for water supply and later for staging.

Correct.

The first division to enter the main fire structure were assigned Foxtrot by the BC, and the breakdown of B and C divisions was done by the Incident Commander as well.

Mark
536/436/WS1095/HP1/HP2/996T/996XT/996P2/396XT/325P2/PSR800/15X/others

The main incident as on ECHO.

The Incident Commander (Battalion Chief) did assign FOXTROT.

However, the recommendation of assignment a separate fire attack talkgroup for the "exposure bravo" (structure to the left when facing the front of the house) came from the "exposure bravo" leader (I believe from the voice it was another Batt Chief). Command agreed and "took" FOXTROT and gave it too them. Since fire alarm is actively listening to the fireground now, I would assume that they then tied FOXTROT to the incident.

 

[ewokscout]

This sounds like it fits the construct of the Incident Command System (ICS) for an expanding event, with the structure on bravo exposure being assigned as a Division with separate talkgroup and support (water supply) and staging given other talk groups.

But Troymail's earlier point is valid. What if Fire Alarm faced a second concurrent major incident needing multiple talkgroups, while at the same time being able to have capacity to handle the usual box calls? Howard County appears to have both a pre-organized template and comms capacity for such a situation.

 

[troymail]

But Troymail's earlier point is valid. What if Fire Alarm faced a second concurrent major incident needing multiple talkgroups, while at the same time being able to have capacity to handle the usual box calls? Howard County appears to have both a pre-organized template and comms capacity for such a situation.

AACoFD's template has been evolving quite a bite recently. Thinking "way" back, AACoFD used to have 3 conventional frequencies before they trunk system (late 80's?). Fireground was simplex and shared (it wasn't uncommon to have multiple working incidents on the same fireground frequency). Until just recently, the trunk system template really hasn't changed much since way back then...

Even so, there are still plenty of talkgroups but as was seen even with this single event, they don't have to be used as they are labeled .

This call used more talkgroups on a single incident than I recall ever seeing in the past - particularly for a 2 alarm dwelling fire (it did have extension to a second structure and possibly a 3rd). But even "2 alarms" has changed in the recent past with 5 engines on each alarm plus special units - like in this case tankers and mutual aid fireboats.

My guess is that there may be limits to how many talkgroups the fire department can have on the current system for loading purposes (without acquiring more frequencies for hte system). in addition, since these changes are "evolving" after "trial periods", it isn't something that is being looked at from the big picture at this point. However, it would certainly be a good idea to start thinking about that for purposes of talkgroup layout for the new system that is coming someday - but, it seems there are 3-5 years to work that out....

 

[marksmith]

However, the recommendation of assignment a separate fire attack talkgroup for the "exposure bravo" (structure to the left when facing the front of the house) came from the "exposure bravo" leader (I believe from the voice it was another Batt Chief). Command agreed and "took" FOXTROT and gave it too them.

Agree. This was not clear to me at the time but probably was Chief 13 (I think he was initially given fire attack) or another BC, whoever was leading bravo.

While Baltimore City, Howard and other systems have that huge breakdown by incident setup, I have been listening for years, and a very high percentage of those talkgroups are inactive a very high percentage of the time.

On the other hand, as active a department as AAFD is, utilization of available talkgroups on this system is probably higher than any area county or jurisdiction. I don't know if system loading is based on number of talkgroups (active or not) or system activity (probably the latter).

They could probably get away with assigning a few more talkgroups to fire in case of multiple incidents, and if the incident is at 9pm like this one, when all the "daytime" talkgroups like parks, schools, permits, etc are silent they would be ok.

I would say though, that AACO in general, uses the system to a higher percentage of capacity than most other area systems.

Mark
536/436/WS1095/HP1/HP2/996T/996XT/996P2/396XT/325P2/PSR800/15X/others

 

[troymail]

Anne Arundel has 3 working incidents including a 2nd alarm in Pasadena. Fire Alarm declared "at capacity" and directed that all communications to Fire Alarm must go through Delta (Command).

EDIT: 4th incident now... spring must be here!

EDIT2: just put out an MVC in Pasadena - closest Engine is Waugh Chapel and Medic from Odenton!

 

[marksmith]

They are running station 43 (airport) to a water incident between Ft Armistead and Stoney Creek Inn, while 11 and 13 are on the incident at Compass Pointe.

Mark
536/436/WS1095/HP1/HP2/996T/996XT/996P2/396XT/325P2/PSR800/15X/others

 

[ThePhotoGuy]

Anne Arundel has 3 working incidents including a 2nd alarm in Pasadena. Fire Alarm declared "at capacity" and directed that all communications to Fire Alarm must go through Delta (Command).

Busy time in the county. 2nd Alarm in Pasadena, Water Rescue Box now in 11's area. Sounded like a fire in South County? Also a Box Alarm in Annapolis.

 

[marksmith]

The MVC is with entrapment on Rt2 and Jones Stn.

Boat fire in Patapsco off Ft Armistead, Operations 5 commanding, City fireboat 2 doing the rescue... helicopter overhead.

Mark
536/436/WS1095/HP1/HP2/996T/996XT/996P2/396XT/325P2/PSR800/15X/others

 

[marksmith]

Now even the transfers are running assignments. Baltimore City and County running incidents now in northern AACO, and others, Howard & Queen Anne are on transfer status.

Sparrows Point engine 57 just took call out of station 18 before they arrived there on transfer.

AA units are responding from out of position places yet. Sounds like the bigger simultaneous incidents are getting under control.

Mark
536/436/WS1095/HP1/HP2/996T/996XT/996P2/396XT/325P2/PSR800/15X/others

 

[marksmith]

AACO is spending hours today putting out that old wreck of a ship at the foot of the Curtis Bay Bridge. Alarm went out around 11am, and while most AACO land units were made available, some, firing from 80 yards away are still working from land, but two fireboats from Baltimore City and fireboat 36 are working from the water, in addition to a piece of equipment on a barge trying to break up the ship.

Battalion Chief 1 indicated they will be working this fire for hours (even though it is at times raining very hard)

536/436/ws1095/996p2/996xt/325p2/396xt/psr800/396t/others

 

[ThePhotoGuy]

It seems that on Tanker Boxes, 2 Battalion Chiefs are being dispatched.

 

[troymail]

It seems that on Tanker Boxes, 2 Battalion Chiefs are being dispatched.

Probably because on structure fires in non-hydrant areas with tankers, they're well into a second alarm of equipment on the initial dispatch....

 

[marksmith]

Probably because on structure fires in non-hydrant areas with tankers, they're well into a second alarm of equipment on the initial dispatch....

And the need for almost immediate water supply management.

536/436/ws1095/996p2/996xt/325p2/396xt/psr800/396t/HP-1/HP-2 & others

 

[maus92]

Does this indicate lack of training / competence of lower level officers? Or lack of confidence in volunteer officers? Seems strange to me that a station commander (Captain / Lieutenant) would not be capable of managing water supply resources. Maybe they don't want an apparatus officer to waste his crew? IDK. Not exactly sure how the command / rank structure works in AACo.