CHP trouble

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KMA367

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Is there a lot of tall trees or buildings around you? Is your house "in a valley"? Can you see the mountain top from your roof?
Except for the "big cities" around Humboldt Bay (Arcata, Eureka, Fortuna), and adjacent unincorporated areas, most of Humboldt County is nothing BUT tall long-needled trees, deep valleys and river gorges, and mountains. It's almost literally impossible be anywhere in the county without seeing nearby mountain tops (or ranges), but more often than not they're not the ones you want you radio to "see" and they often serve instead to block it.

Where I'm living now is on relatively high, flat land in McKinleyville, with excellent unobstructed eye- and "radio-" views to the south and south-southeast, but unless they're using either the Horse or Pierce transmitters, reception of CHP generally sucks, despite a number of different antennas I've used on my roof and on my truck. Unless the dispatcher was using one of those sites intentionally or otherwise, I've seldom heard a call or other transmission for the south part of Humboldt #16's or Garberville #105's area, or to the north, for the Del Norte #95 area.

About ten years ago they did add mobile relays that bring mobile traffic from parts of those far north and south areas into Eureka, so I'll often hear the Garberville & Del Norte mobiles on the 42.54 frequency, but I still don't hear the dispatch side. They have one 72.22 fixed relay up near Gasquet, but I don't know how the other sites are set up, but my guess is that they haul the 42.24 signals in to the dispatch center in Eureka by microwave.

Don't give up on CHP just yet though, HumboldtMUD. Starting on Sept 8, the FCC began receiving the State's applications for the new CHP Northern "Green" frequency, 45.22 base, (to be used with 42.68 mobiles). So far the only locations for which apps have been received are at Camp 6 (Gasquet), Buckhorn Scales (Blue Lake), Red Mountain, and the Crescent City and Arcata offices. With winter's snow soon approaching the high-ground radio sites, I wouldn't expect 45.22 to go into service before late Spring at the earliest, though, unless the rest of the applications get filed, everything gets approved, no skip interference problems crop up (as elsewhere) and they all get built out. That'll all take time, and money, and Rome wasn't burned in a day. However, listeners' reports, and my own experience on trips between Humboldt and L.A. are that the new frequencies are more robust and come in much stronger than the 42xx freqs have, and in many areas the mobiles are repeated on the dispatch frequency.

CAL-TRANS has some 800 mhz conventional repeaters in Humboldt county. You will hear more activity in the winter time; when there are problems with the roads. State parks will show up on 800 mhz sooner or later too. Prelican Bay state prison uses it's own Motorola trunked radio system...
You're absolutely right about winter time listening and about Pelican Bay. But in my 19½ years living in several parts of Humbug County and monitoring them, I've never heard a peep on any of Caltrans' licensed and alleged 800-band frequencies. Nothing. Zero. They use 47.20 all the time, and 47.08 for mobile-to-mobile stuff (construction sites, "rock-knockers," etc), but the 800s are just as dead as they can possibly be.

As to both CalTrans and State Parks, when I moved over here in 1991 I asked around about that very issue since the 800 licenses were already in place, and was told that both agencies had taken a shot at 800 mHz but the topography and the trees (and the distances... over 200 Highway-101 miles, 150+ air miles from the "Green's" southern end to the Oregon State line) completely clobbered the 800-band signals, so neither agency went there. A slew of additional sites would have been needed to fill in all the holes, so CalTrans stayed with 47 mHz simplex, and Parks moved from their old 44 system to VHF high repeaters, which cover things nicely. They may well change eventually, but I haven't even heard the required early rumors about it yet. :)
 
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KMA367

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42MHz = 7.14 meters = 23.43 feet. That is the "wave length". One quarter of 23.43 = 5.86 feet....

To calculate the wavelength of an antenna, the formula is 234 / frequency in MHz for a 1/4 wave antenna .. so 234 / 42 = 5.5 feet. That is the size of the antenna for best CHP reception at 42MHz.
Alternately, you can also use a reduced version of that formula (234x12 = 2808) to get your quarter wave in inches:

2808 / freq = ¼ wave in inches:
e.g.
for 42 mHz: 2808 / 42.00 = 66.86" (or 5.57')
for 42.54 mHz: 2808 / 42.54 = 66.01" (5.5') - which I doubt any scanner will notice much if any difference

for HCSOs 154.74: 2808 / 154.74 = 18.15"

Med 1 463.00: 2808 / 463 = 6.06"

ITAC 1: 866.5125: 2808 / 866.5125 = 3.24"

Assuming the anticipated 45.22 mHz change happens, you could then cut the thing to 62.09"
(2808 / 45.22 = 62.09"). Don't get too snippy too soon though. It's a lot easier to cut the vertical shorter than to cut it longer! And when you tune the antenna for one frequency you're always affecting its tuning for others, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse, depending on which way you're cutting it

The above numbers aren't always precise depending on if you have any unusual resonance issues around, but they're a good rule of thumb in most cases.
 

avtarsingh

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humboldt uses vhf for p & r 1 of the few areas that does uses vhf

151.01000 158.97000 WPWW675 BMRF 179.9 PL SILVER North Coast Redwoods District FM Multi-Dispatch

151.47500 158.86500 WPGD769 BMRF 179.9 PL BRASS Mendocino District FM Multi-Dispatch

was surprised this isnt on humboldt or on shelter cove's listing - theres a vhf p&r rptr AT the shelter cove RID/coast guard/chp state site


chp wont get switched over anytime soon unless theres a budget
when chp does get switched over expect your signal coverage to get worse if it follows all of the other areas
the srl antennas they are using are just garbage and cant compare with the krecos they were using
the only advantage will be is if they keep the repeat on
then at least you can hear the mobile being repeated IF you can at least hear the repeater :)
 
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humboldtMUD

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nice thanks for that info. i like how you referenced humboldt county somehow becoming a roman empire. maybe someday, ha. seems chp in garb has a fair bit of funding, i know they got a grant for more officers, there are so many of them driving around in this rural area. but im sure they need some major funding to do that project.
 

KMA367

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CHP & State Parks

humboldt uses vhf for p & r 1 of the few areas that does uses vhf

151.01000 158.97000 WPWW675 BMRF 179.9 PL SILVER North Coast Redwoods District FM Multi-Dispatch

151.47500 158.86500 WPGD769 BMRF 179.9 PL BRASS Mendocino District FM Multi-Dispatch

was surprised this isnt on humboldt or on shelter cove's listing - theres a vhf p&r rptr AT the shelter cove RID/coast guard/chp state site
I know of about nine repeater sites licensed on 151.01, but the only three which I can confirm since I've heard them are Requa, Pierce & Grasshopper. I don't like to submit stuff info to the database if I haven't personally confirmed it, but I suppose I should at least send those three in.

chp wont get switched over anytime soon unless theres a budget
when chp does get switched over expect your signal coverage to get worse if it follows all of the other areas
the srl antennas they are using are just garbage and cant compare with the krecos they were using
the only advantage will be is if they keep the repeat on
then at least you can hear the mobile being repeated IF you can at least hear the repeater :)
Because of your many and excellent posts about it, I'll certainly defer to you on CHP's equipment and the "progress" with with the new frequencies. You're obviously much more into it than I am... I'm just a casual listener nowadays

Anyway, I'm just basing my signal quality opinion on a few others peoples' reports, but mostly on two trips I've taken down the state via I-5 and SR 99, with a few detours. Granted that until moving to Humboldt in 1991 CHP wasn't high on my list of things to listen to (except when I worked at Grass Valley 26 year ago and I had to keep an ear to their frequency "just in case") but my subjective opinion on the two trips this summer was that the new ones had better audio quality and propagation. The latter was noticeable while driving, but especially pronounced while I was staying in a relative's metal-clad mobile home in Simi Valley and listening on my handheld w/rubber ducky. Previously the only CHP freq I could even somewhat reliably hear was the local Ventura Purple, but now I was able to hear about five of LACC's frequencies almost full quieting; a couple others were in there but not so hot. Or maybe it was just the new battery in my hearing aid. :roll:

I guess "our mileage may vary." Thanks for your insight, as always
 

humboldtMUD

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ive heard "grasshopper" quite often on 151.01. i thought i was hearing state park rangers...? what does that mean exactly?
 

KMA367

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ive heard "grasshopper" quite often on 151.01. i thought i was hearing state park rangers...? what does that mean exactly?
When they call in to their dispatcher (or sometimes car-to-car), they will name the repeater site they're using, so the dispatcher knows which one to reply through. "Grasshopper Peak" is about 2 or 3 miles due west of Weott:
40°18' 24.5", -123° 58' 39.1" - Google Maps (if the link works)

Or here's a "Terrain View" (I hope): http://goo.gl/maps/9iSP
 
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northzone

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If you look at APCO you will see CHP has applied for a license for a fixed link (453.0500/458.0500) from Pierce (nearest connection to state microwave) to Weott (Grasshopper mountain no doubt). This means that CHP is planning to put a repeater on Grasshopper.

That is good news for you as it should really light up your area on 101 and Avenue of the Giants. It may take some time to happen but I would also listen to the link frequency in addition to the regular lowband channels.
 

KMA367

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Yeah, thanks. It's mixed right smack in the middle of their applications for a lot of Northern Division high-level sites for the new frequencies, which makes me assume that it probably won't affect 42.54 but will be part of the "new" frequency configuration for Northern Red, Northern Green, and Northern Blue.

None of this group is listed in the FCC's applications database yet, but will probably get in there within a week or two. And then they'll sit "pending" for while.

If you look at APCO you will see CHP has applied for a license for a fixed link (453.0500/458.0500) from Pierce (nearest connection to state microwave) to Weott (Grasshopper mountain no doubt). This means that CHP is planning to put a repeater on Grasshopper.

That is good news for you as it should really light up your area on 101 and Avenue of the Giants. It may take some time to happen but I would also listen to the link frequency in addition to the regular lowband channels.
 

KMA367

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so whats on 151.01 becuase on HUMBOLDT COUNTY SCANNER FREQUENCIES its states that that freq is state parks
Yes, that IS California State Parks, as "avtarsingh" mentioned in post #43, above.

If you look at the map at California State Parks I believe the 151.01 repeater frequency covers the Coast Region from the Oregon line as far south as Richardson Grove, with 151.025 handling south from Sinkyone Wilderness and Smithe Redwoods. How far south the 151.025 repeaters handle, I have no idea. There may be some spots near the dividing line where the "other" repeater is more accessible that the one actually assigned, but I'm sure their radios are capable of switching between the two.

Similarly, Humboldt CHP units over in the Willow Creek/Orleans area occasionally can't reach Humboldt dispatch and have to switch over to the Red (42.44) and talk to the Redding dispatch center. Before that eastern boundary was changed a few years ago, Trinity River #90 cars patrolled deep into Humboldt County on 299 and sometimes had to call Humboldt on the Green rather than their own dispatcher at Redding on the Red. Radios and radio waves don't always act exactly the way they're planned and expected to.
 
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Mike_G_D

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For what it's worth, I, too, have seen definitely improved reception of the Southern Division frequencies now that they have changed. I can definitely hear them better here in Carlsbad in north San Diego County on a handheld with an indoor antenna relative to how they sounded (or didn't "sound" at all!) when using the old frequencies.

-Mike
 

KMA367

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Pierce-Grasshopper change? and new Mendo/Lake CHP "White" apps

If you look at APCO you will see CHP has applied for a license for a fixed link (453.0500/458.0500) from Pierce (nearest connection to state microwave) to Weott (Grasshopper mountain no doubt). This means that CHP is planning to put a repeater on Grasshopper..
While it was originally shown as a CHP thing, the application was received/entered by the FCC on Monday, and that freq pair is attached to the license used by State Parks, WPWW675, and those two freqs seem to show as an add request to their system. But you never know what they'll actually be used for until it happens. And it does indicate between Pierce and Grasshopper.

Pierce, and Pratt and a couple other Green freq sites' apps were also entered Monday, but Horse is still waiting to get in. Likewise, the new Mendo/Lake CHP "Northern White" freq applications are showing up, with 44.92 replacing 42.56 as previously rumored, and mobiles going to 42.52. When/if it works out.
 
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humboldtMUD

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well finally chp is coming in, and actually pretty good. dont know what changed but its been working the last couple days
 

cnt2c56

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CHP -- Poor Reception

I listen mostly to my local CHP (San Jose/Ruby).

There is a lot of background static. I also pick up CHP channels from around the SF Bay Area, but they are a lot clearer than my local CHP office.

I have 3 different radios that all have some degree of this issue. I know it can be all about the antenna, but any ideas why is the closest office has the poorest reception?

Ian
 
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