City of Houston Project 25 TRS

[Ensnared]

Got It

First, Layer = RFSS

Next, as to what you program, it depends on what you are trying to listen to. You don't say. If you want to hear HPD and/or HFD then you program as we described above for site 3-05 only as a separate system entirely. Your PSR500 or 600 or well any other radio except a PSR800 has no use whatever for the rest of the Layer 3 (RFSS 3) sites.

If you are trying to listen to any other FDMA TGs on this system other than HPD, HFD, and Houston Parking enforcement, then you must program a separate system (or systems) using layer 1 or 2 sites (RFSS 1 or 2) ignoring any layer 3 sites. How to do that depends, of course, on the specific radio you are using; but, I will repeat, do not mix the two concepts.

Yes, I was surprised to see layer 3 sites occurring outside of Harris county. With the exception of the 3 (3) 005, I suppose these third layer sites are for: a) HPD/HFD TDMA traffic in surrounding counties where they might investigate a crime and/or assist with multiple alarm fires; or b) that TDMA will be expanding outward to surrounding counties. I'm just taking a guess.

I am mainly interested in listening to TxWarn MOT & P25 from Waco to the Houston Metroplex via highway 6, 290 & highway 36 specific to LE, Fire/EMS, MA, Federal, & DPS.

I just reprogrammed my radio & will be testing this little beast out tomorrow.

Thanks

 

[JLP1]

In Over My Head With Houston's New System

Hello All,

After 30 plus years of listening to HPD/HFD with everything from hand tunable radios, bearcats, radioshack, uniden, and even old salvaged PD radios from the junk yard I now find myself in silence. Up to about 2 weeks ago I could still hear them on their old systems and now I understand they have finally moved to their new system. I knew it was coming and I had taken steps to be ready but got caught up in the rebanding and had not upgraded my equipment. Now I'm so far behind the curve that I'm totally confused as to what can be heard. I've read all 18 pages of this thread and there are so many new things that I don't know where to start. So I finally joined the R/R forum to ask for help.

Here's what I've done so far:
I purchased a PSR-800 from ScannerMaster and had it set up for Houston.
They provided 4 scanlist:
Houston Police
Houston Fire
Harris County SO
Harris County TXWARN

Right out of the box the scanner receives the following:
Harris County SO (More that I've ever heard with my Pro-97)
Harris County TXWARN (I'm hearing DPS which I had not heard for a long time) HCESD1, Jersey Village PD and others.
Houston Fire (The robot dispatcher and that's all)
Houston Police (Nothing at all)

Would somebody please point me in some direction where I can get caught up on what's going on?
I read that the HFD encrypted everything except the robot is that true I'm a 21 year retired firefighter an that would be a shame.
How much did HPD encrypted? I really like to listen to them when it rains and we have the flooding.
I live in East Houston near the beltway and I-10 if that helps with what I can hear.

Thank you for your time and I would really appreciate any help I can get.........

John,

 

[loumaag]

Hello All,

After 30 plus years of listening to HPD/HFD with everything from hand tunable radios, bearcats, radioshack, uniden, and even old salvaged PD radios from the junk yard I now find myself in silence. Up to about 2 weeks ago I could still hear them on their old systems and now I understand they have finally moved to their new system. I knew it was coming and I had taken steps to be ready but got caught up in the rebanding and had not upgraded my equipment. Now I'm so far behind the curve that I'm totally confused as to what can be heard. I've read all 18 pages of this thread and there are so many new things that I don't know where to start. So I finally joined the R/R forum to ask for help.

Here's what I've done so far:
I purchased a PSR-800 from ScannerMaster and had it set up for Houston.
They provided 4 scanlist:
Houston Police
Houston Fire
Harris County SO
Harris County TXWARN

Right out of the box the scanner receives the following:
Harris County SO (More that I've ever heard with my Pro-97)
Harris County TXWARN (I'm hearing DPS which I had not heard for a long time) HCESD1, Jersey Village PD and others.
Houston Fire (The robot dispatcher and that's all)
Houston Police (Nothing at all)

Would somebody please point me in some direction where I can get caught up on what's going on?
I read that the HFD encrypted everything except the robot is that true I'm a 21 year retired firefighter an that would be a shame.
How much did HPD encrypted? I really like to listen to them when it rains and we have the flooding.
I live in East Houston near the beltway and I-10 if that helps with what I can hear.

Thank you for your time and I would really appreciate any help I can get.........

John,

You don't need a PSR800. Programming a PSR800 for receiving HPD and/or HFD is more difficult than programming a BC796D for doing the same thing. That said, I will say that the PSR800 is a great radio and is my main radio at home for HCSO in my area as well as other Public Safety that I monitor in my local area (Fry & Keith Harrow). You don't say if you have any other P25 capable scanner so I don't know if the detailed directions I have provided at least 3 times in the last week or so in this very thread are applicable. I briefly described how to program the 800 for HPD/HFD reception of the FDMA copies but with 800 you could be listening to the TDMA ones. I have to tell you, I have a lot of respect for Scanner Master as a retailer, but unless they have someone on the ground here in the Houston area, I fear they don't understand the difficulty of segregating the RFSS 3 layer from the other layer when setting up a PSR800.

 

[bearcarscannergirl]

I'm new and I apolgize upfront for any stupid questions. My puxing px888 has been silent for about 2 weeks, and I guess it is because of the houston project 25 system phase II. how can I get my scanner reprogramed?

 

[loumaag]

I'm new and I apolgize upfront for any stupid questions. My puxing px888 has been silent for about 2 weeks, and I guess it is because of the houston project 25 system phase II. how can I get my scanner reprogramed?

That radio will not be able to be used at all on the new system. If you have a P25 scanner then you can use the details previously posted here for programing it or I just uploaded an article in the RR Wiki that might help:
Houston Police and Fire P25 - The RadioReference Wiki

 

[teknishun]

PSR-800 the HPD and Alvin, North Brazoria County

Just to be clear, the closest tower of the 3-05 simulcast AFAIK is near Dixie Farm Rd and I-45 which should put it in range of Alvin.

So far the ONLY entity I can receive from HPD is "HPD SE Disp". No other. Period.

I have "found" HPD SE Disp to be on 771.35625 location 4 of WQPC City of Houston ITD RCS
located on highway 6 in Alvin.

It is also received on 769.58125 location 3 of WQPS653 Harris County ITC located at
1310 Ginger Road in Santa Fe.

And also on 772.50625 location 5 of WQPC696 City of Houston ITD RCS located at
1310 Ginger Road in Santa Fe.

"HPD SE Disp" is ALL I EVER hear, and it is always on one of these 3 frequencies above.

How do I monitor the rest of the HPD channels?

I will check into the Dixie Farm at I-45 site. I had not heard of that one before.

 

[teknishun]

WQPC856

So far the ONLY entity I can receive from HPD is "HPD SE Disp". No other. Period.

I have "found" HPD SE Disp to be on 771.35625 location 4 of WQPC City of Houston ITD RCS
located on highway 6 in Alvin.

Sorry - That should have read WQPC856 location 4 City of Houston ITD RCS.

 

[KevinC]

Just to be clear, the closest tower of the 3-05 simulcast AFAIK is near Dixie Farm Rd and I-45 which should put it in range of Alvin.

So far the ONLY entity I can receive from HPD is "HPD SE Disp". No other. Period.

I have "found" HPD SE Disp to be on 771.35625 location 4 of WQPC City of Houston ITD RCS
located on highway 6 in Alvin.

It is also received on 769.58125 location 3 of WQPS653 Harris County ITC located at
1310 Ginger Road in Santa Fe.

And also on 772.50625 location 5 of WQPC696 City of Houston ITD RCS located at
1310 Ginger Road in Santa Fe.

"HPD SE Disp" is ALL I EVER hear, and it is always on one of these 3 frequencies above.

How do I monitor the rest of the HPD channels?

I will check into the Dixie Farm at I-45 site. I had not heard of that one before.

If you are "finding" them on individual frequencies, you don't have a grasp of how trunking works.You're going to have to understand trunking before you can properly listen to HPD.

Then move on to simulcast.

Once you understand trunking and simulcast you'll have to comprehend SmartZone. In SmartZone if a radio isn't affiliated to the TG on the tower/site you are listening to you will never hear anything on it.

I'm pretty sure HPD radios are set to "prefer" the 4 PS simulcast sites and use the non-simulcast as a last resort...more or less. Which is why you primarily hear them on those and not sites 11-16.

LOTS of people are successfully listening to both HPD and HFD so it can't be all that difficult. I can even listen to them, so it REALLY can't be difficult.

Of course I could be wrong about this.

 

[KevinC]

So far the ONLY entity I can receive from HPD is "HPD SE Disp". No other. Period.

I have "found" HPD SE Disp to be on 771.35625 location 4 of WQPC City of Houston ITD RCS
located on highway 6 in Alvin.

Sorry - That should have read WQPC856 location 4 City of Houston ITD RCS.

Which makes perfect sense! No other patrol areas will be close to that site, so only SE will affiliate to it.

And here's why you only get traffic on that frequency...

Frequencies 1-4 are Control Channels so they will be the last to be assigned by the controller.

Frequency 6 is the BSI (where the callsign is transmitted) so it will be the 2nd frequency assigned.

Frequency 5 (probably the one you hear) is neither CC or BSI so it is the first one assigned...always.

See how easy it is?

 

[loumaag]

Boy, it would be nice if someone "down there" would plug something into UniTrunker and get the rest of the frequency line-up so we could put them in the DB. Site 3-03 only has control channels listed and none of the frequencies he is hearing are in the DB.

 

[KevinC]

Hello All,

After 30 plus years of listening to HPD/HFD with everything from hand tunable radios, bearcats, radioshack, uniden, and even old salvaged PD radios from the junk yard I now find myself in silence. Up to about 2 weeks ago I could still hear them on their old systems and now I understand they have finally moved to their new system. I knew it was coming and I had taken steps to be ready but got caught up in the rebanding and had not upgraded my equipment. Now I'm so far behind the curve that I'm totally confused as to what can be heard. I've read all 18 pages of this thread and there are so many new things that I don't know where to start. So I finally joined the R/R forum to ask for help.

Here's what I've done so far:
I purchased a PSR-800 from ScannerMaster and had it set up for Houston.
They provided 4 scanlist:
Houston Police
Houston Fire
Harris County SO
Harris County TXWARN

Right out of the box the scanner receives the following:
Harris County SO (More that I've ever heard with my Pro-97)
Harris County TXWARN (I'm hearing DPS which I had not heard for a long time) HCESD1, Jersey Village PD and others.
Houston Fire (The robot dispatcher and that's all)
Houston Police (Nothing at all)

Would somebody please point me in some direction where I can get caught up on what's going on?
I read that the HFD encrypted everything except the robot is that true I'm a 21 year retired firefighter an that would be a shame.
How much did HPD encrypted? I really like to listen to them when it rains and we have the flooding.
I live in East Houston near the beltway and I-10 if that helps with what I can hear.

Thank you for your time and I would really appreciate any help I can get.........

John,

Just did some quick math, the minimum you paid is $743.49...and it doesn't even do what you want.

I'd ask for my "Setup and Optimize" money back.

 

[teknishun]

Yes, We have no Apples!

If you are "finding" them on individual frequencies, you don't have a grasp of how trunking works.You're going to have to understand trunking before you can properly listen to HPD.

Then move on to simulcast.

Once you understand trunking and simulcast you'll have to comprehend SmartZone. In SmartZone if a radio isn't affiliated to the TG on the tower/site you are listening to you will never hear anything on it.

I'm pretty sure HPD radios are set to "prefer" the 4 PS simulcast sites and use the non-simulcast as a last resort...more or less. Which is why you primarily hear them on those and not sites 11-16.

LOTS of people are successfully listening to both HPD and HFD so it can't be all that difficult. I can even listen to them, so it REALLY can't be difficult.

Of course I could be wrong about this.

I UNDERSTAND a lot about trunking and simulcast and Motorola Smartzone. I am not a complete dumbass!! I have been monitoring TX WARN for years with a Smartzone multi-site system. Everything on TXWARN works exactly the way I expected it to. I know what NEEDS to be done, it is just with this new P25 digital for HPD and HFD that is making my life a living hell.

If you think it is so damn easy here is a CHALLENGE -- bring your scanner to Alvin and we will
see how good it works for you then !!!! Let me know your results.

I have now trashed everything that used to be in my PSR-800. Thank goodness for Virtual Folders
feature of the PSR-800. The Houston General Government Services Simulcast has 21 radio frequencies. I found the site for Dixie Farm Road and IH-45 (900 Tristar Drive, Webster, Texas) and it uses those exact same 21 radio frequencies. So, I have programmed the PSR-800 with one system and one site, namely
the Tristar location. No other locations are in the scanner so I should not have to worry about it
trying to lock on the control channels to other sites that are a lot closer.

In TXWARN I can receive Dickinson, Pearland, League City, and Angleton all fairly well, so I do not
see a problem with receiving the Dixie Farm Road location.

Right now I do not hear Jack. But, it is night time after all.
We will see what the morrow brings.........

 

[teknishun]

I just uploaded an article in the RR Wiki that might help:
Houston Police and Fire P25 - The RadioReference Wiki

Thank you Lou. I followed the instructions in your Wiki and I am now hearing more than I used to.
I still think the main issue being in Alvin is going to be having a good outdoor antenna to bring in
a stronger signal.

 

[KevinC]

If you think it is so damn easy here is a CHALLENGE -- bring your scanner to Alvin and we will
see how good it works for you then !!!! Let me know your results.

I'll do that and let you know.

Please keep one thing in mind...it's only a scanner. Don't get all worked-up over it.

 

[loumaag]

...
The Houston General Government Services Simulcast has 21 radio frequencies. I found the site for Dixie Farm Road and IH-45 (900 Tristar Drive, Webster, Texas) and it uses those exact same 21 radio frequencies. So, I have programmed the PSR-800 with one system and one site, namely the Tristar location. No other locations are in the scanner so I should not have to worry about it trying to lock on the control channels to other sites that are a lot closer....

The "location" is the closest tower of that site to Alvin. As Kevin pointed out earlier, which I did not know, the antennas on that specific tower of the site are oriented to the south east. While that is not completely away from you, it isn't pointing at you either.

If you have been doing this for years, surely the PSR800 is not the only scanner you own. I say this because it does not lend itself well to just checking a frequency. If i were where you were (and I am, sort of, only on the NW side) I would just plug the CCh in to see what sort of strength of signal I am getting and then move the antenna around until I got the strongest signal.

I have said this several times in this thread lately and the whole point of that article I put in the Wiki was, you don't need a PSR800 to listen to HPD or HFD. Any P25 capable trunking scanner will work, as long as you can receive site 3-05.

 

[JLP1]

Over My Head

Thanks Lou for you response and the WiKi it helped me understand a lot of what I've missed.
At this time I only have the 800 for APCO 25 but I will get another radio to work on this with (looking for one now). Right now the 800 is doing a great job on HCSO which is a high priority for me.

And Kevin I did pay about $734 for the 800 and true it's only doing half the job for me right and I would have love found one on E-bay but it just wasn't in the cards at the time. So I'll make do and from there.

Thanks everybody...

John

 

[Ensnared]

PSR 500 Field Report

I traveled down to Houston last Saturday after programming the new HPD/HFD talk groups. My hat goes off to the person responsible for adding the MA talk groups for those who don't own a PSR 800. The system works like a charm. Furthermore, I appreciate those who were patient enough to help me through the programming process.

I was positioned in Rosenberg/Richmond. Hence, while driving into Houston on 290, HPD/HFD came in loud and clear. I followed the instructions of two people within this forum that know what they are talking about. It surely paid off, LOL.

As stated, this listener was able to pull in HPD/HFD radio traffic from a fairly remote location. There was a slight difference in radio quality at greater distances. The new HPD/HFD talk groups for General Services sounded slightly pinched, but who cares, you can still hear quite well. The closer you come into the city, the clearer these talk groups sounded.

When I looked at the various HPD/HFD talk groups, I asked myself, why bother buying a PSR 800? From what I understand, the dispatch channels marked "T" are the same as those marked with "D" under the General Government layer. Those with a PSR 800 are faced with the same issue, that of encryption.

When I was near Navasota, I was still hearing Katy PD, a new talk group that is in the 1st and 2nd layers. Again, HCSO came in very strong & clear.

Again, thanks for all of the help. It was important to treat the General Government layer as a separate system. I put it in a unique scan list and it worked quite well.

 

[teknishun]

"down there" in Brazoria County vs the Unitrunker

Boy, it would be nice if someone "down there" would plug something into UniTrunker and get the rest of the frequency line-up so we could put them in the DB. Site 3-03 only has control channels listed and none of the frequencies he is hearing are in the DB.

Lou - I program my PSR-800 from the data that is in the RR database.
Then, I watch which sites come up and what radio frequencies the scanner is actually tuning to.

Sometimes the freq I hear are not in the database for that site.

That is when I go to the FCC-ULS database and do a search on the frequency I hear.
That leads me to the call letters, the entity, and every tower site that the FCC has
assigned that radio frequency to.

Why don't you just use the FCC-ULS database to populate/correct the RR database?
Since the FCC assigned those frequencies to that specific tower, wouldn't they be
correct?

 

[loumaag]

...
Why don't you just use the FCC-ULS database to populate/correct the RR database?
Since the FCC assigned those frequencies to that specific tower, wouldn't they be
correct?

I am glad you brought that up. This needs to be pointed out every once and a while and although it is not directly related to this thread, I want to address it because we really need to finish populating the database for this system.

The RR Database is based solely on user submissions (or actual DB Admin observations). It does not rely on the FCC database because it has been proven again and again that the FCC database is not really representative of reality. We do link the FCC database for research purposes, but we don't rely on it because the FCC database is a collection of data from the actual licensees, who are not always correct or reliable. Good examples (and easy to find) are LTR systems in the FCC DB as regular business (IG) licensees. Large trunking systems licensing frequencies for several locations and then using them as they need them or licensing them in one location and using them somewhere else; in other words they may not be where the FCC thinks they are. This is why we rely on the users, you folks, to ferret out the real information and supply it (via submissions) so we can keep the DB accurate.

Specifically in your situation, you have a PSR800, that means you probably have a Windows computer to go along with it. You can run your PSR800 into the UniTrunker decoding software and verify the frequency data for some of those sites we are missing frequencies. Your PSR800 requires no modification as it able to directly feed (via the USB port) UniTrunker. That process is a topic for a different thread and forum but if you look through the Trunking Control Channel Decoding forum you will find how it works.

 

[teknishun]

Good News for Modern Man

The "location" is the closest tower of that site to Alvin. As Kevin pointed out earlier, which I did not know, the antennas on that specific tower of the site are oriented to the south east. While that is not completely away from you, it isn't pointing at you either.

If you have been doing this for years, surely the PSR800 is not the only scanner you own. I say this because it does not lend itself well to just checking a frequency. If i were where you were (and I am, sort of, only on the NW side) I would just plug the CCh in to see what sort of strength of signal I am getting and then move the antenna around until I got the strongest signal.

I have said this several times in this thread lately and the whole point of that article I put in the Wiki was, you don't need a PSR800 to listen to HPD or HFD. Any P25 capable trunking scanner will work, as long as you can receive site 3-05.

Lou - I programmed one system and one site, the Dixie Farm Road site, using the General Govt Services
frequencies. Nothing else is in the scanner except those 21 frequencies you listed in your wiki.
I drove over to that tower site and parked there until I heard a transmission from every HPD talkgroup
and every HFD talkgroup in your wiki. It works like a champ! Chatter, chatter, chatter and with crystal
clear audio. Bravo!

Then I drove to downtown Houston and to the Heights area using those same 21 frequencies.
Again excellent audio on everything.

Taking the scanner back home to little old Alvin and my recliner, it works reasonably well.
The speech is usable and intelligible but sometimes borders on sounding like the
R2D2 gibberish of bad digital audio.

Bottom line - Alvin users will most likely need an outdoor antenna. Digital audio is very unforgiving
of weak signals and dropouts. I get outstanding reception close to the tower sites and not so good
reception at home but it DOES work. A good antenna is the key to good digital audio.

Pearland users will probably get by with the rubber duck of the handheld because they are much
closer to the tower site on Dixie Farm Road.

My next step is to program the PSR-800 with just the phase 2 TDMA in a separate system
by itself and see what happens.

THANKS LOU !!! It was your wiki that got me up and running.