The P25 Fire channel/frequency assignment topology should not be that difficult to figure out. There is definitely an apparent formula given what you have seen so far..
City of Ottawa P25 Frequency Update
- Thread starter mmisk
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The P25 Fire channel/frequency assignment topology should not be that difficult to figure out. There is definitely an apparent formula given what you have seen so far..
mmisk
Member
More ENC talk groups showing up:
More ENC talk groups showing up:
1516
1519 OC Security
2573
2574
2578
2581
3001
3559 and 3562 are ENC and seem to be using Fire RID's wonder what this is all about?
More ENC talk groups showing up:
1516
1519 OC Security
2573
2574
2578
2581
3001
3559 and 3562 are ENC and seem to be using Fire RID's wonder what this is all about?
DaveH
Member
I noticed ENC on TG 3562, also a lot of ENC last night on 2721 but not likely related.
TG zones appear to go in steps of 5.
Dave
TG zones appear to go in steps of 5.
Dave
If it seems like they're cross patching into this new system and we know there are comms on the talkgroups everyday. Why is nobody submitting this info to the database? Even if you don't know the talk group name at the very least mark it as fire or oc transpo or whatever. Atleast it's a start.
I know fire is still on EDACS I was able to hear them yesterday out my way. Same as OPS.
I know discussion is great here and posting talkgroups here too but can we start posting them in the database. Sure would like to have the radio programmed more efficiently for my next trip in to the city without having to just save new talkgroups in the radio.
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Uniden 436HP/VHF/UHF NMO Ground Plane Base Antenna
Anytone 6666/Sirio Tornado 27 Antenna
President Grant II/K40 Magnet Antenna
TRC-465 - Spare
I know fire is still on EDACS I was able to hear them yesterday out my way. Same as OPS.
I know discussion is great here and posting talkgroups here too but can we start posting them in the database. Sure would like to have the radio programmed more efficiently for my next trip in to the city without having to just save new talkgroups in the radio.
Sent from my SM-G390W using Tapatalk
-----------------------
Uniden 436HP/VHF/UHF NMO Ground Plane Base Antenna
Anytone 6666/Sirio Tornado 27 Antenna
President Grant II/K40 Magnet Antenna
TRC-465 - Spare
Not publishing unknowns have put some members off. It makes them feel devalued for all the time and effort discovering new things.
Others resent the "I'll dig and pave the road, all you have to do is walk on it" attitude. Same time and effort deal.
If encryption is in place, we can put the talkgroup numbers in the database since we have no way of truly knowing who the precise user is. You can surmise using Radio ID's to see which category those talkgroups would reside in.
We can't change human nature, but fortunately there are some people who travel to the Ottawa area and share their findings. With patience, the puzzle pieces will fill in.
Others resent the "I'll dig and pave the road, all you have to do is walk on it" attitude. Same time and effort deal.
If encryption is in place, we can put the talkgroup numbers in the database since we have no way of truly knowing who the precise user is. You can surmise using Radio ID's to see which category those talkgroups would reside in.
We can't change human nature, but fortunately there are some people who travel to the Ottawa area and share their findings. With patience, the puzzle pieces will fill in.
DaveH
Member
New TGs for this system will be figured out, no big deal. I'm still hearing OFS on EDACS.
I don't do submissions, haven't for over a decade. Conscious decision and no apologies. I'm happy to find and figure out new systems, frequencies etc., which often takes a lot of time/effort, and leave the TG details to others. It should be a fun thing, but almost nobody seems willing to do it.
As to who's unhappy, if it's those who pay the money and download sometimes outdated/inaccurate/incomplete DB entries and don't hear anything, and otherwise don't contribute anything, not a lot of sympathy.
A small number of people pull at/above their weight for this, e.g. between Renfrew and the far east end of Ottawa, seems to be about three people doing most of it (and a few who pop in from time to time). Could use a few more hands on deck, to organize data and submit.
Ottawa is not the only area with this situation. A number of times I asked for help identifying a frequency or system, sometimes outside my usual coverage area, only to be met with a long sheepish silence.
Anyway, no secret database here, not really any at all, just some notes I make from time to time.
--------------------------------------------------->8---------------------------------------------------------
Early this morning, was woken up by some fire activity, found a VR converted to P25, clear voice:
859.6125 P25 NAC=293 (Zone 1)
Dave
I don't do submissions, haven't for over a decade. Conscious decision and no apologies. I'm happy to find and figure out new systems, frequencies etc., which often takes a lot of time/effort, and leave the TG details to others. It should be a fun thing, but almost nobody seems willing to do it.
As to who's unhappy, if it's those who pay the money and download sometimes outdated/inaccurate/incomplete DB entries and don't hear anything, and otherwise don't contribute anything, not a lot of sympathy.
A small number of people pull at/above their weight for this, e.g. between Renfrew and the far east end of Ottawa, seems to be about three people doing most of it (and a few who pop in from time to time). Could use a few more hands on deck, to organize data and submit.
Ottawa is not the only area with this situation. A number of times I asked for help identifying a frequency or system, sometimes outside my usual coverage area, only to be met with a long sheepish silence.
Anyway, no secret database here, not really any at all, just some notes I make from time to time.
--------------------------------------------------->8---------------------------------------------------------
Early this morning, was woken up by some fire activity, found a VR converted to P25, clear voice:
859.6125 P25 NAC=293 (Zone 1)
Dave
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Long time, no post.
Hey folks. Hope all of you are doing well.
As others have said, I can’t believe this system hasn’t been updated in the DB since 12/31/17. Come on guys! Lets get at it. Honestly, if I was able to (vision impairment aside) I would be submitting talkgroups whenever they came up, even if they were speculative/preliminary at the time.
Just a couple questions/observations.
When it comes to OC Transpo, other than the main channels 1 (all-call) 2 (booking) and supervisors, is it possible to hear the drivers comms with dispatch on regular channels, or does Phase II have something similar to iCall on Edacs?
Clearly OFS will be fully switching any day now, given the simulcasting between the systems, Dave mentioned new repeaters with NAC’s. I’ve heard many references and confusion over the past couple days, as to which repeaters should be used at the various grass fires popping up, Edacs or Tait radios. And of course, lots of testing during the daytime. As I type this, high-rise alarm coming in on 2-1 and dispatch making sure everyone uses the new radios. Car 20 was having issues for the longest time hearing the other units on location because his new radio wouldn’t affiliate.hmmm.
Hey folks. Hope all of you are doing well.
As others have said, I can’t believe this system hasn’t been updated in the DB since 12/31/17. Come on guys! Lets get at it. Honestly, if I was able to (vision impairment aside) I would be submitting talkgroups whenever they came up, even if they were speculative/preliminary at the time.
Just a couple questions/observations.
When it comes to OC Transpo, other than the main channels 1 (all-call) 2 (booking) and supervisors, is it possible to hear the drivers comms with dispatch on regular channels, or does Phase II have something similar to iCall on Edacs?
Clearly OFS will be fully switching any day now, given the simulcasting between the systems, Dave mentioned new repeaters with NAC’s. I’ve heard many references and confusion over the past couple days, as to which repeaters should be used at the various grass fires popping up, Edacs or Tait radios. And of course, lots of testing during the daytime. As I type this, high-rise alarm coming in on 2-1 and dispatch making sure everyone uses the new radios. Car 20 was having issues for the longest time hearing the other units on location because his new radio wouldn’t affiliate.hmmm.
One thing is certain. I clearly live on the wrong end of town with a bad elevation. Still gonna try one more time some time this summer to get my antenna higher by attaching it to the house on the roof (no I don't have a chimney here in my new place), but I just simply cannot get these systems from home on the base antenna. I barely get Camp Fortune on the PushPlus network but it does come in. Hell I have a hard enough time pulling in Pakenham and that's not very far. I do however get Kinburn from time to time for Fleetnet. So atleast I have that.
Drive less then 3 km's away in my mobile and I have no problem pulling it in, even better if I'm atop some elevation.
I do have a 3 element PCTel 806-866 mhz antenna that I'd like to try out, however I'm not gonna hold my breath on it. Plus I don't have a splitter for it and my VHF/UHF stuff to coincide with listening.
I should almost consider a cheap tv beam antenna perhaps that might help. Who knows....(and yes I realize they're not optimized for 800 mhz)
Today I swapped out my VHF/UHF NMO Ground plane mount I was using for my base and I put up a Jetstream JTD1 Discone antenna and pushed it up another 5 ft. for approx. total height of about 20 ft. again, not holding my breath but it was a nice day so I decided to work on that this afternoon.
I'm always willing to help out with systems as long as I can pull them in. Most often then not though the info I do get is when I'm either close to the city or in the city while mobile.
Drive less then 3 km's away in my mobile and I have no problem pulling it in, even better if I'm atop some elevation.
I do have a 3 element PCTel 806-866 mhz antenna that I'd like to try out, however I'm not gonna hold my breath on it. Plus I don't have a splitter for it and my VHF/UHF stuff to coincide with listening.
I should almost consider a cheap tv beam antenna perhaps that might help. Who knows....(and yes I realize they're not optimized for 800 mhz)
Today I swapped out my VHF/UHF NMO Ground plane mount I was using for my base and I put up a Jetstream JTD1 Discone antenna and pushed it up another 5 ft. for approx. total height of about 20 ft. again, not holding my breath but it was a nice day so I decided to work on that this afternoon.
I'm always willing to help out with systems as long as I can pull them in. Most often then not though the info I do get is when I'm either close to the city or in the city while mobile.
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Thank you to whomever took the time to update the database. Very much appreciated. Hope to see some more in the near future.
https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=8161
I know I'm also speculating here and it was brought up earlier in the thread, but how likely is it they follow the same pattern for talkgroups. Making it a bit easier in identifying future use of those. What's been updated looks like channel 1 for each sector.
Example Only:
3509 1-1
3510 Possible 1-2
3511 Possible 1-3
3512 Possible 1-4
https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=8161
I know I'm also speculating here and it was brought up earlier in the thread, but how likely is it they follow the same pattern for talkgroups. Making it a bit easier in identifying future use of those. What's been updated looks like channel 1 for each sector.
Example Only:
3509 1-1
3510 Possible 1-2
3511 Possible 1-3
3512 Possible 1-4
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scanningsam
Newbie
IdleMonitor. no problem.
Your theory about the non-primary talk groups is possibly correct. But I'm only posting what I can confirm from listening to my scanner. I have only heard communication on the primary talk groups. I'm waiting until a user either identifies the talk group on the air, or I can confirm it from monitoring both the patch EDACS/P25 systems. I'm also finding it more difficult to tune to the P25 system to pull it in clearly then the EDACS system.
Your theory about the non-primary talk groups is possibly correct. But I'm only posting what I can confirm from listening to my scanner. I have only heard communication on the primary talk groups. I'm waiting until a user either identifies the talk group on the air, or I can confirm it from monitoring both the patch EDACS/P25 systems. I'm also finding it more difficult to tune to the P25 system to pull it in clearly then the EDACS system.
mmisk
Member
Does anyone know the locations of the 2 sites for this system? Are they in the same locations as the EDACS system?
scanningsam
Newbie
I don't know the if sites have locations themselves, from what I've seen from scanning they both apply to the whole city. Only scanning one site seems to get only some talk groups. When scanning fire, for example, Site 2 tended to have more of the East talk groups active on it, Site 1 had more western talk groups active on it. For example, when I enabled Site 2, I barely ever saw 4-1 active (west fire), but occasionally did come up...
Fire switch complete?
Don’t want to cry wolf, but haven’t heard any OFS activity (other than airport fire) on Edacs all night/morning. Thought maybe it was just a quiet night in the city, but there was no 07:00 station radio check either. I’ve not had time to put the newly discovered P25 talkgroups in my radio yet.
Can’t imagine they’ve completely switched over, since there was still quite a bit of testing yesterday. and a number of ff’s were lamenting the fact this new system isn’t nearly as strong as the old one; needing to use repeaters in many buildings they never had to before. With that being said, seems to be the norm with digital switches...Same thing happened in places like Chicago, Phily and Houston.
Don’t want to cry wolf, but haven’t heard any OFS activity (other than airport fire) on Edacs all night/morning. Thought maybe it was just a quiet night in the city, but there was no 07:00 station radio check either. I’ve not had time to put the newly discovered P25 talkgroups in my radio yet.
Can’t imagine they’ve completely switched over, since there was still quite a bit of testing yesterday. and a number of ff’s were lamenting the fact this new system isn’t nearly as strong as the old one; needing to use repeaters in many buildings they never had to before. With that being said, seems to be the norm with digital switches...Same thing happened in places like Chicago, Phily and Houston.
mmisk
Member
New frequencies have been added to:
Ottawa P25 Site 2 MAY 12 2018
;Site- 2 16B7E.02E-1.2 NAC:2F
;
There are now 13 frequencies in use:
1, 866.0875
2, 866.2125
3, 866.2875
4, 866.4625
5, 866.7875
6 866.9625
7, 867.0875
8, 867.1375
9, 867.2875
10, 867.4625
11, 867.6875
12, 867.7125
13, 867.7875
Ottawa P25 Site 2 MAY 12 2018
;Site- 2 16B7E.02E-1.2 NAC:2F
;
There are now 13 frequencies in use:
1, 866.0875
2, 866.2125
3, 866.2875
4, 866.4625
5, 866.7875
6 866.9625
7, 867.0875
8, 867.1375
9, 867.2875
10, 867.4625
11, 867.6875
12, 867.7125
13, 867.7875
rainydaybagel
Member
I'm a newb with just a couple handhelds but I'll do my best to chip in here. I've only been listening and manually programming some frequencies but I guess now's probably a good time to figure out how to search...
Anyone want to point me in the right direction for how to approach searches and what I should be on the lookout for?
FYI, I'm using a Bcd436hp handheld for P25. I do plan to get a discriminator tap and software set up for an older Radio Shack scanner I have.
Anyone want to point me in the right direction for how to approach searches and what I should be on the lookout for?
FYI, I'm using a Bcd436hp handheld for P25. I do plan to get a discriminator tap and software set up for an older Radio Shack scanner I have.
Do ya think this would be enough to bring in the Ottawa 800 Mhz systems to Renfrew pointed direct East at the right height? If so what would that height be?
PCTEL - MYA8063 - 3 Element Yagi - 806-866 kHz- 6db
Horizontal or vertical?
Anytime I've tried using this I've come up with 0 results.
I'm not on the east end of town where I know signals would be better.
I have no idea how far I am to the towers probably atleast 70-80km's
Sent from my SM-G390W using Tapatalk
-----------------------
Uniden 436HP/VHF/UHF NMO Ground Plane Base Antenna
Anytone 6666/Sirio Tornado 27 Antenna
President Grant II/K40 Magnet Antenna
TRC-465 - Spare
PCTEL - MYA8063 - 3 Element Yagi - 806-866 kHz- 6db
Horizontal or vertical?
Anytime I've tried using this I've come up with 0 results.
I'm not on the east end of town where I know signals would be better.
I have no idea how far I am to the towers probably atleast 70-80km's
Sent from my SM-G390W using Tapatalk
-----------------------
Uniden 436HP/VHF/UHF NMO Ground Plane Base Antenna
Anytone 6666/Sirio Tornado 27 Antenna
President Grant II/K40 Magnet Antenna
TRC-465 - Spare
Last edited:
mmisk
Member
I would recommend spending the $$ on LMR 400 coax.
When I switched to LMR 400 it made a huge difference at 400 and 800 mhz.
Perhaps a yagi antenna sold for cellular use would be a decent alternative if your 3 element does not do the job.
Are you able to install it above the trees?. Trees can really kill 400 and 800 mhz signals.
Mike
When I switched to LMR 400 it made a huge difference at 400 and 800 mhz.
Perhaps a yagi antenna sold for cellular use would be a decent alternative if your 3 element does not do the job.
Are you able to install it above the trees?. Trees can really kill 400 and 800 mhz signals.
Mike
mmisk
Member
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