AKA Massachusetts
CoMIRS question
- Thread starter stormycat
- Start date
People should not think that this only goes on in MA. I remember several years ago Mobile, AL had a complete system in storage and never built it. All of the equipment went EOL and they never did a thing with it. Eventually they went on the county system, which was built.
I believe both were Harris P25 systems, which were intended to replace the EDACS Pro Voice systems both used.
In general government is very inefficient in purchasing new systems and even worse at maintaining them.
I believe both were Harris P25 systems, which were intended to replace the EDACS Pro Voice systems both used.
In general government is very inefficient in purchasing new systems and even worse at maintaining them.
Scott, will that equipment still be useable on start up?
It was supposed to be built out on the cape in 2023. In 2021 before I retired, I (and just about everyone else in my shoes on Cape Cod) secured a grant for close to $150,000 of radio equipment for the switchover. Great to get new radio equipment, but now here it is 3+ years after my retirement, Motorola has sent out end of support messages for a lot of the granted equipment, and the new system hasn't even broken ground, to my knowledge. I have heard "2026" but I'll believe it when I see it...or hear it.
Typical of this bass ackward state.
I agree with Mike.
I believe the APX radios up to and including the 7500 series have an announced end of life date. The 6500 series is 7/2027 for end of Motorola repairs but I am not sure about the 7500.
When is start up?
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Useable? I'd expect so for a majority of them. I'm at the point now where some are having the inevitable wear and tear and need to go to Mother Mot for repairs that the wizards at Barnstable County Technical Division can't complete. Those guys are amazing. So this will continue and increase and obviously at some point they will need to be replaced.
That's the question, and obviously it ties in with the first part of this message as well. One might derive 2028 from the literature in this thread, but there is other literature out there that would claim that it will be sooner.
Prior to the APX4000 portables obtained in 2021, we had a fleet of XTS2500's that lasted a LONG time. Fortunately these radios are built well, and should be for their price. We got a pretty good run out of them. Those would still be useable today for the most part, so hopefully the 4000's will last as long as they did.
It's just the principle of the thing. The techs that work at the state level do miracle work as well, but the radio system is literally thirty-one or so years old and is really in dire need of replacement. That's grossly behind schedule.
Scott I will tell you from experience, the APX4000 in VHF were inferior longevity wise compared to the XTS1500. In 17 years of use not one XTS1500 ever made a trip to the depot. In 10 years of use nearly 2 out of every 3 APX4000 has been to the depot at least once. Most for RF board failures although quite a few for battery contact damage due to a poor design
Side note, I'm curious, were the APX4000 you guys got a special 4000M model like the 4500M option was as part of the RUP? I assume they must have been although I hadn't heard that there was such an option. M=Massachusetts i.e. ability to program Type II and P25 in the same radio at the same time which inherently is not possible in the 4000 and 4500
Chris G,
Side note, I'm curious, were the APX4000 you guys got a special 4000M model like the 4500M option was as part of the RUP? I assume they must have been although I hadn't heard that there was such an option. M=Massachusetts i.e. ability to program Type II and P25 in the same radio at the same time which inherently is not possible in the 4000 and 4500
Chris G,
- the APX4000 was only ever an AN model and production ended in 2025 with end of support in 2030.
- The APX4500 AN, APX6000 AN, APX6500 AN all reached end of support a couple years ago however the BN of each model is still the curent production model (CN if it is 800 band). Note that the BN and CN are being produced concurrently and neither of end of production nor has any date been announced
- The APX7000 and 7500 were AN only are reached end of support a couple years ago
- The APX8000 is AN only and is still current production model with no announced end of production
- The APX8500 is CN for current production. There was no BN and although CN is the current production, the AN is still in full support and will follow any future schedule of the CN per the lifecycle notification
jeffkett
Member
Question on "End Of Life" .. Are they really internally combusting or is Mother M pulling the wool over everyone's eyes to sell more equipment at ungodly pricing?
Jeff
Jeff
nikronzo
Member
the 4000 and 4500 are capable of doing both 3600 and 9600 baud trunking. There was/is a option called QA02811 3600 or 9600 Baud trunking trigger which only allowed one or the either to be programmed at the same time. MA being one of the last places in the country that still has a full smartzone 4.x system and a p25 p2 system running at the same time makes programming a pain.
Eventually MSi will no longer support 3600 baud trunking in their code base just like how L3 Harris is rolling back support for EDACS in their code to push customers to get with P25 once and for all. The question is, what will bend first, Moto pushing Type II out or MA pushing to keep it in cause the system is still up.
My bet is MA will keep it on the air past any Moto support. eBay is their friend at this point.
This is a tidbit from my past personal experience, in-person, knowledge. I attended a public (then deemed classified) meeting at MA State Police barracks in Framingham back mid-year 2002, which included head State Police personnel, the actual Motorola salesman who sold the entire set up, and other individuals. Guess what was discussed at this (classified) meeting, a document was passed around for attendees to read, and it was a complaint RE: past system's failure, system crashing, Trooper complaints, etc. The State hired an outside engineer for a study of the current system, and the future proposed system, and guess what. The study proved the State's 800MHz system was deemed dangerous, should not be further used, and unfit as being reliable. None of the individuals in that room were allowed to remove the study from the room. I actually asked questions including how many Trooper's were injured in the line of duty in which the radios and/or radio system failed, and the room was silent. Though it was made known to all of us at the meeting, SP was hiding it from their own employees (i.e. Troopers) of this study and SP was aware the initial Boston 800 TRS system and other poor initial 800 set ups (i.e. western MA) radios had failed and police officers had suffered injuries from radio failures, which was outlined in the paperwork we all read at that meeting. It was also made public by SP admin staff, the system would never work in western MA due to mountainous terrain, and I know that personally...
Part 2:
Prior to this above meeting (which was why I attended due to witnessing multiple 800MHz failures in real life), I was a member of a non-profit S&R group, in which MSP Troopers were present, and at this point in time, they all had brand new 800MHz portables. In Spring/May-June 2002, the search was in the Blandford/Chester State Forest, during early summer 2002. There was no 800MHz TRS coverage, they used a high level site 800MHz 800 ITAC rptr, which failed to provide repeater coverage for the 140 troopers deep into the woods. I was in personal attendance w/ the S&R group searching for the subject. I was the one who brought in a VHF deployable VHF repeater, but SP radio tech denied the service.
My S&R team (with 3 civilian staff, 1 Chester PO, and 3 SP troopers). The S&R group was on VHF simplex. We civilians located the suspect (deceased), had no way to radio SP. A Trooper from our team was summoned, we showed him the body. He proceeded to climb down a ravine, fell and broke his leg in front of us. The SP radios failed life safety measures to call for help. I used the S&R VHF portable and radioed the SP command post (at Chester FD). I got the S&R director, but he was not at the command post. I switched channels to Chester Fire (then on simplex) and got someone in the Fire Station. They responded, and I was the sole individual who relayed that a Trooper had a broken leg and needed a medical evac. They dispatched EMS in ATV's to our location. This is when the SP went nuts on me for exposing that they knew all along the 800MHz was dangerous from the get go. This incident was discussed at the MSP-Framingham meeting, and then they banned me from all future meetings, which is what happened.
After a ton of public records requests back then, they falsified many records. This multi day search cost us taxpayers over $930,000 in payroll (including OT), 137 cruisers on scene {70 of them used to relay radio comms on 800 "SP DIRECT"}, 3 SP radio techs, $10 of millions of new radios failed each day for 3 days, total.
The meetings were from a privately formed committee by SP staff, and included the FCC Enforcement Director (who was a paid member of the committee, who got them the 700-800 spectrum they needed, and the Motorola salesman was also a direct member). This is what made me sick, was during MSP paid lunch break, the salesman was all over me and filled me in (sitting at his table), he was a relative of a SP employee, and admitted to bragging (in general, misconduct). He was offering me an "in" on the money tree.
Part 2:
Prior to this above meeting (which was why I attended due to witnessing multiple 800MHz failures in real life), I was a member of a non-profit S&R group, in which MSP Troopers were present, and at this point in time, they all had brand new 800MHz portables. In Spring/May-June 2002, the search was in the Blandford/Chester State Forest, during early summer 2002. There was no 800MHz TRS coverage, they used a high level site 800MHz 800 ITAC rptr, which failed to provide repeater coverage for the 140 troopers deep into the woods. I was in personal attendance w/ the S&R group searching for the subject. I was the one who brought in a VHF deployable VHF repeater, but SP radio tech denied the service.
My S&R team (with 3 civilian staff, 1 Chester PO, and 3 SP troopers). The S&R group was on VHF simplex. We civilians located the suspect (deceased), had no way to radio SP. A Trooper from our team was summoned, we showed him the body. He proceeded to climb down a ravine, fell and broke his leg in front of us. The SP radios failed life safety measures to call for help. I used the S&R VHF portable and radioed the SP command post (at Chester FD). I got the S&R director, but he was not at the command post. I switched channels to Chester Fire (then on simplex) and got someone in the Fire Station. They responded, and I was the sole individual who relayed that a Trooper had a broken leg and needed a medical evac. They dispatched EMS in ATV's to our location. This is when the SP went nuts on me for exposing that they knew all along the 800MHz was dangerous from the get go. This incident was discussed at the MSP-Framingham meeting, and then they banned me from all future meetings, which is what happened.
After a ton of public records requests back then, they falsified many records. This multi day search cost us taxpayers over $930,000 in payroll (including OT), 137 cruisers on scene {70 of them used to relay radio comms on 800 "SP DIRECT"}, 3 SP radio techs, $10 of millions of new radios failed each day for 3 days, total.
The meetings were from a privately formed committee by SP staff, and included the FCC Enforcement Director (who was a paid member of the committee, who got them the 700-800 spectrum they needed, and the Motorola salesman was also a direct member). This is what made me sick, was during MSP paid lunch break, the salesman was all over me and filled me in (sitting at his table), he was a relative of a SP employee, and admitted to bragging (in general, misconduct). He was offering me an "in" on the money tree.
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Hi Greg,
I was waiting to get in here before I answered the question. These appear to be straight up APX4000's, model H51UCF9PW6AN.
FYI, RR now has a forum for those longer stories called scanner chat:
forums.radioreference.com
New Sub-Forum: Scanner Chat
A new Sub-Forum to the General Scanning forum has been created called "Scanner Chat". This is intended for stories and tales related to scanners and scanning. "Scanner Tales" and other stories have been moved there. Enjoy!
Interesting! I do see that the restriction is no longer listed in the literature (it definitely used to be) and they definitely "created" the APX4500M for Mass to allow both types to be programmed (I was part of a project that purchased some). I wonder if after doing it specific for MA they just adopted it as the standard configuration.
No doubt that it goes on nearly everywhere. Massachusetts and a few other states have just perfected the art.