Conventional Digital Programming vs. OFT (One Frequency Trunk) Programming

werinshades

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No, but it does have TG's so that option would be nice.
Different talkgroups per RAN, or one talkgroup per RAN?

Ex: 461.000 RAN 1/TGID 101(Security)
461.000 RAN 1/TGID 102 (Maintenance)

[Talkgroup Option would be needed.]

or: 461.000 RAN 1 (Security)
461.000 RAN 2 (Maintenance)

[Talkgroup Option not needed]
 

KevinC

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Different talkgroups per RAN, or one talkgroup per RAN?

Ex: 461.000 RAN 1/TGID 101(Security)
461.000 RAN 1/TGID 102 (Maintenance)

[Talkgroup Option would be needed.]

or: 461.000 RAN 1 (Security)
461.000 RAN 2 (Maintenance)

[Talkgroup Option not needed]
A repeater can only have one RAN (it's more or less equivalent to a Color Code).
 

werinshades

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Yes. That's why I said the TG feature would be nice. ;)
System Type: Conventional/Trunking

Audio Option:

Conventional Analog
Conventional DMR (Color Code/Slot Any/Slot 1/Slot 2)
Conventional NXDN (RAN/TGID)
(Unit ID w/Name Tab be added)

Trunking P25
Trunking MotoTRBO
Trunking NXDN

Imagine a world where scanner programming would be simplified. :cool:
 

Ubbe

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it would be easier to instead add a delay time for OFT, in addition to hold, that always will stay on the frequency for that time regardless if there's no carrier detected from it.

As you're describing, when programmed as a One Frequency Trunk (OFT), it is looking for that data burst that's not going to happen.
No, I'm not describing it in that way.
 

Ubbe

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Already mentioned that.
Hold needs a carrier detect and a valid data signal to start the timer. If there's no carrier it just swish past that frequency and if there's a carrier but no valid data it leaves the frequency in 250mS. I've already mentioned that. The normal Delay timer in systems are started after a TG conversation ends. What I propose are another delay that always kicks in on OFT channels, regardless of carrier or data signals.

What the firmware coders needs to do are to copy the normal subroutine for a TG delay but also set the flag for a TG detect that will start the timer and a 0sec setting will then not stop on the frequency and behave exactly as now and it not even needs Sentinel to have that extra timer in its settings, in the same way as Whistler adds new features only in the scanners menu. It's a 5 minute change but then production time also needs to be put into quality control and beta testing and so on. It's a much more complicated and lengthy task to add all OFT functions to a conventional channel for the firmware coders and Sentinel application programmers.

/Ubbe
 

werinshades

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Hold needs a carrier detect and a valid data signal to start the timer. If there's no carrier it just swish past that frequency and if there's a carrier but no valid data it leaves the frequency in 250mS. I've already mentioned that. The normal Delay timer in systems are started after a TG conversation ends. What I propose are another delay that always kicks in on OFT channels, regardless of carrier or data signals.

What the firmware coders needs to do are to copy the normal subroutine for a TG delay but also set the flag for a TG detect that will start the timer and a 0sec setting will then not stop on the frequency and behave exactly as now and it not even needs Sentinel to have that extra timer in its settings, in the same way as Whistler adds new features only in the scanners menu. It's a 5 minute change but then production time also needs to be put into quality control and beta testing and so on. It's a much more complicated and lengthy task to add all OFT functions to a conventional channel for the firmware coders and Sentinel application programmers.

/Ubbe
No need to do all this, just make conventional digital programming with the options of OFT and the problem is resolved. I don't know how many OFT systems you have programmed in Sweden since you never mentioned it, but here in "Merica" and based on some of the responses on this thread, it would appear I'm not the only one who would like to see this on the drawing board. Since this wasn't my first OFT programming, I'm very confident I have it set up. You keep referencing the changes needed to get OFT to work, and I don't foresee this happening. Since many of the features are already available in Conventional Digital programming, with the exceptions noted, I could see this being the route taken in the future. Yes, I'm aware that a new firmware is being worked on, and this isn't on the table yet, but as with many changes that occur with these scanners, things change in times.
 

mikewazowski

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I don't know how many OFT systems you have programmed in Sweden since you never mentioned it,
I don't know if you're aware, but One Frequency Trunking is a Uniden term only. It's something that Uniden came up with instead of using the tone/slot/group information in the RR database (unlike Whistler that does use this info). Outside of programming a Uniden scanner, the term means nothing at all. If you mention OFT to a radio tech, he'll have no idea what you're talking about unless he just happens to own a Uniden scanner.
 

werinshades

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I don't know if you're aware, but One Frequency Trunking is a Uniden term only. It's something that Uniden came up with instead of using the tone/slot/group information in the RR database (unlike Whistler that does use this info). Outside of programming a Uniden scanner, the term means nothing at all. If you mention OFT to a radio tech, he'll have no idea what you're talking about unless he just happens to own a Uniden scanner.
Yes, I did find that out when I said to someone "yea, it's a one frequency trunk system", then was schooled that it's a conventional system and their was "no such thing in radio programming". I guess the better way to ask @Ubbe is how many digital systems do you have programmed as OFT, and how many conventional systems do you have scanning in Sweden? I'm interested to know you're experience with all of this from the "scanner programming" point of view and not the technical aspect? Also, did you ever purchase a SDS scanner for daily use, or are you still "borrowing" one if I recall you mentioned before?
 

GTR8000

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I don't mean to throw a wet blanket on your idea, however it's worth noting that Paul Opitz was keenly aware of the gripes against having to use OFT, and he would've been the guy who could've made the changes you're asking about, but never did.

I think most of us have given up holding our breath that Uniden is going to do anything worthwhile with existing scanners. We've been waiting 2.5 years since that infamous thread was started, and the only thing of substance we've see are two new niche market models that might be released early next year.
 

werinshades

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I don't mean to throw a wet blanket on your idea, however it's worth noting that Paul Opitz was keenly aware of the gripes against having to use OFT, and he would've been the guy who could've made the changes you're asking about, but never did.

I think most of us have given up holding our breath that Uniden is going to do anything worthwhile with existing scanners. We've been waiting 2.5 years since that infamous thread was started, and the only thing of substance we've see are two new niche market models that might be released early next year.
I'm aware of course. The reason I brought this back up again was the mention of the beta firmware update that's out there, and the "more to come" tease too.

UPMan and I had a back and forth private message some years back about this too. The focus was on adding features to the SDS series first, then was going to work on performance upgrades for them. Unfortunately, his health went bad and I left it alone.
 

KevinC

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I suspect the easy way for Uniden to implement timeslots. radio ID's and such was to use a lot of the existing trunking FW code. To do it the "right" way would probably require a complete new FW re-write. But that's just a guess on my part.
 

Ubbe

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No need to do all this,
It takes about the same time to do it in the code as it takes to read my detailed description of it, so there's nothing to it really. It's a lot more work for the coder to modify the conventional mode and those kinds of extra time consuming work for older scanners are not gonna happen at Uniden. They want to put those kind of enhancements into their new scanners to attract sales, so even that 5 minute work will probably not happen. They will only do bug fixes to scanners that are already a few years old and saves any enhancements and new features for their new scanner releases.
how many digital systems do you have programmed as OFT, and how many conventional systems do you have scanning in Sweden?
I'm counting here, and I have 44 OFT systems programmed and then it's several different frequencies within the same OFT, like 5 channels for events in one OFT and 10 channels for HAM DMR in another OFT. I only have a few digital conventional, maybe 5, that sometimes use analog and sometimes digital on the same channel. I usually always program a single channel DMR system into OFT and sometimes grouped with other channels in the same OFT.

/Ubbe
 

werinshades

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I'm counting here, and I have 44 OFT systems programmed and then it's several different frequencies within the same OFT, like 5 channels for events in one OFT and 10 channels for HAM DMR in another OFT. I only have a few digital conventional, maybe 5, that sometimes use analog and sometimes digital on the same channel. I usually always program a single channel DMR system into OFT and sometimes grouped with other channels in the same OFT.

/Ubbe
You beat me there...LOL! I'm around 5, with a mix of everything except ProVoice.
 

SKA999

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OFT adds access to other features as well.

Again, OFT was added to allow these features to be used on otherwise conventional frequencies.

Aside from having to program the frequency as OFT rather than in a conventional channel, why is OFT not a solution for what you want?
Joe, please document the feature. In a conventional mode. When programming a DMR repeater/simplex, display tgid,uid ,ts. In p25 conventional tgid, uid. ! Many years have passed. Many people ask for this. DMR oft and p25 oft work very poorly.
 
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