Cosumnes CSD Fire Department, Elk Grove

[TB84]

Hello Fellow Radioreferenceheads:

A little confused here and would appreciate any clarification.

Elk Grove and Galt, both located in Sacramento County, are serviced by the Cosumnes Services District (CSD) for fire protection.

My question: Is the CSD on the Sacramento County Fire Talk Group?

That list can be seen at the Sacramento Regional Radio Communications System (Public Safety) System listing

(http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=4499)

Or are they under a completely separate group?

Thanks!

TB

 

[RolnCode3]

None of the Fire Departments operates on its own talkgroups, except Sac City Fire. Sac City uses the "B" talkgroups. Everyone else uses the "A" talkgroups.

Technically the talkgroup used is based on the geographic location of the incident, so "B" is for anything inside the City of Sacramento, and "A" is for everywhere else in the County.

 

[Sac916]

None of the Fire Departments operates on its own talkgroups, except Sac City Fire. Sac City uses the "B" talkgroups. Everyone else uses the "A" talkgroups.

Technically the talkgroup used is based on the geographic location of the incident, so "B" is for anything inside the City of Sacramento, and "A" is for everywhere else in the County.

http://www.srfecc.ca.gov/

Sac Regional Fire / EMS Communications Center

 

[TB84]

Thanks.

Thank you for the replies Roln and antfreq. I've listened to mostly the police on my scanner for the first few years so I'm not very familiar with fire talk. With the slew of fires in the area over the last few days, I've begun to scan them.

Seems like fire uses multiple channels, unlike police. Every call seems to have a command, ops, and tactical channel assigned. It gets a little confusing.

TB

 

[scannerboy02]

Seems like fire uses multiple channels, unlike police. Every call seems to have a command, ops, and tactical channel assigned. It gets a little confusing.

That would be correct. Each incident is dispatched on the disp channel and assigned a command channel (A2 north of the American River and A3 south of the American River) most of the time A2 and A3 are patched together. If the incident is large enough ie. large car crash or a fire they will assign a tac channel (A6-A11).

 

[clanusb]

most of the time A2 and A3 are patched together.

that is incorrect. they are only patched together on scanners, i have yet to figure out why. on the regular radio, A2 and A3 are separate. Sometimes when it gets VERY busy (like july 4th) i will find that A2 and A3 have split on the scanner, and sometimes it bounces between everything on A2 and then on A3 on another day. Most of the time A2 and A3 are patched together onto scanners on A2.

commanding officers (usually battalion chiefs) who assume command at an incident have 2+ mobile radios.
both are on the 800mhz trunked system. while they are AOR (ava. on radio) one monitors FDSP A (a1) and the other monitors FCOM A2 or A3. A2 is for units north of the American river, while A3 is for units south of the river. I dont follow city ops, but they only use B2 if im correct.

when a large incident goes out, such as a structure fire, you will get 2 Battalion Chiefs, 3 Engines, 2 Trucks, 1 Medic, and the on duty Asst. Chief + Saftey Officer. ever additional alarm after that is 3 engines and 1 truck.
The B/C's will then monitor either A2 or A3, and use the other radio on the tac channel.

regular fire units, Engines, Trucks, Medics, Grass Rigs, etc, only have 1 mobile 800mhz radio, so if they need the
"command" capability they have to use the handheld along with the mobile.

example: struct. fire.
"tones": Battalion 10, B/C 10, Engine 74, Truck 74, Medic 74, Engine 72, Engine 75, Truck 7, B/C 9, 7150 (SO). Structure Fire at "911 Elm Wood Ave." (repeated twice) then the units are listed again, the Fire Map page is then given, along with the Tac channel, usually A6.

If dispatch has updates for the incident they will be sent via MDT's and relayed over radio to the B/C in charge on A3(in this case), he will then relay to all units on A6.

i hope that covers it for you. anything else, dont be afraid to ask.

 

[RolnCode3]

that is incorrect. they are only patched together on scanners, i have yet to figure out why. on the regular radio, A2 and A3 are separate. Sometimes when it gets VERY busy (like july 4th) i will find that A2 and A3 have split on the scanner, and sometimes it bounces between everything on A2 and then on A3 on another day. Most of the time A2 and A3 are patched together onto scanners on A2.

You're going to have to explain to us how the scanners pick up the patch, but the Motorola's don't. I'm curious who told you that, or what makes you think that.

Everything else (assuming it's correct - and I am not saying it's not), shows an intimate knowledge of the operations, and is valuable.

 

[Sac916]

You're going to have to explain to us how the scanners pick up the patch, but the Motorola's don't. I'm curious who told you that, or what makes you think that.

Everything else (assuming it's correct - and I am not saying it's not), shows an intimate knowledge of the operations, and is valuable.

I can tell you that for a fact, Fire A2 is patched with Fire A3. Fire B2 is patched with Fire B3.

This is visiable and audible and the console and portable radio end.

How a scanner behaves to this, well that's a different story.

 

[clanusb]

it was antfreq who told me several years ago, while i used a different name. (forgot all the log in stuff so i made a new one)

i guess i misunderstood what he meant about the two being patched together, im sorry.

i listen to fire most everyday, because hopefully in 4years i will be working for a certain agency.

now i just wish i could understand PD.

 

[Sac916]

it was antfreq who told me several years ago, while i used a different name. (forgot all the log in stuff so i made a new one)

i guess i misunderstood what he meant about the two being patched together, im sorry.

No reason to be sorry at all - This site is (should be) about information and education. If ANYBODY posts data or information that is slightly or totally percieved as incorrect, they SHOULD BE called out and asked about it. Of course in a polite and friendly manner. At times it's a very difficult hobby to understand, especially these days.

When the SRRCS went through changes ( mid 2006 ) they didn't originally have A2/A3 and B2/B3 patched. I don't know exactly why - but I can find out - Regional Fire changed up the way they did things. Full time Talk Group patches appeared and B6 was patched into another Talk Group ( I believe to a Site 2 Talk Group ) in an effort to assist in site affiliation coverage. I heard they had some reception issues.

When Talk Groups are patched, such as A2 and A3, it effectively turns the patched Talk Groups into ONE channel.

i listen to fire most everyday, because hopefully in 4years i will be working for a certain agency.

now i just wish i could understand PD.

In the spirit of keeping the thread's integrity, shoot me a PM if you have any questions about a PD career, dispatcher career or communications protocol.

 

[clanusb]

so A2 and A3 are patched together, so they come in to dispatch as 1. when the dispatcher talks, it goes out on both? or only one?

 

[RolnCode3]

It will go out on both. If you parked a scanner on A2 and another scanner on A3 you would hear it. I don't know if it varies with site affiliation though.

 

[Sac916]

It will go out on both. If you parked a scanner on A2 and another scanner on A3 you would hear it. I don't know if it varies with site affiliation though.

Yeah, I've seen some weird behaviour on different scanner models when it comes to site affiliation and channel patches.

Using 2 real motorola radios, one on A2 and the other on A3, you will hear the same traffic on both channels.

 

[Sac916]

so A2 and A3 are patched together, so they come in to dispatch as 1. when the dispatcher talks, it goes out on both? or only one?

It goes out on both channels at the same time. All parties on either channel will hear ALL radio traffic on A2 and A3 as if it was just one single channel. Think of it as A2.5 HA!

 

[clanusb]

Think of it as A2.5 HA!

LMFAO.

okay. two questions.

how does city split b2 and 3? what channel covers what area?

i have a bc246t, and nothing comes up on A3, only A2

 

[Sac916]

LMFAO.

okay. two questions.

how does city split b2 and 3? what channel covers what area?

i have a bc246t, and nothing comes up on A3, only A2

Honestly, I only listen to fire when I must or something majorly interesting is going on. Since I use motorola equipment and console I can easily see all activity on all Fire channels in one glance, and listen to multiple channels at once. A firebug will have to answer that one.

Hearing traffic only on A2 is exactly what I was referencing earlier. I'm no expert in scanner electronics and how they translate signals etc. But I would venture to guess it's just the scanner "reads" the radio systems control channel and translates patches and other system modifications.

 

[RolnCode3]

LMFAO.

okay. two questions.

how does city split b2 and 3? what channel covers what area?

i have a bc246t, and nothing comes up on A3, only A2

City Fire does not use B2/B3 the way A2/A3 are used. B2 is the only dispatch channel citywide during normal operations. You would not hear any traffic on B3 during normal operations.

I don't know what you mean by the A2/A3 reference at the end of your post.

 

[clanusb]

well im pretty much a fire bug.

as i said in my earlier post, thats what i thought, city fire only used B2, but when antfrwq said b2 and 3 were patched, i figured that they also used b3, and was having the same issue as a2 and 3.

again, i follow county fire on a regular basis, not city fire.


also, ive talked to a few guys who work out in the sloughhouse and rancho muerita area... (stations 58 and 59) and for saftey reasons i wont say why these channels are used, but is there anyway to monitor A15 and A16? (line of sight channels?)
if you work in law enforcement you should know what i mean about these channels and that certain area, if not, give me a PM.

 

[Sac916]

also, ive talked to a few guys who work out in the sloughhouse and rancho muerita area... (stations 58 and 59) and for saftey reasons i wont say why these channels are used, but is there anyway to monitor A15 and A16? (line of sight channels?)
if you work in law enforcement you should know what i mean about these channels and that certain area, if not, give me a PM.

The "line of sight" channels are known as Simplex or Direct. What fire uses is most likely conventional 800MHz radio frequencies. Most Public Safety entities that use the 800MHz system utilize at least one Simplex or Direct channel.

I would try some I-TAC or CLEMARS freqs.
http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?aid=1009


If you happen to be near an incident in RM, try using your Close Call ( or SignalStalker ) feature on your scanner.

In regards to Rancho Murieta coverage - It's been a publicly debated hot button issue.
The coverage there sucks.

http://www.radioreference.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42254
http://www.ranchomurieta.com/node/5449
http://www.ranchomurieta.com/node/5299
http://www.rivervalleytimes.com/story33.shtml
http://www.ranchomurieta.com/node/5392
http://www.murietaonline.com/forum/f24/tower-lease-fees-2381/?highlight=radio



IMO
The only reason this is a significant public debate and has hit the media spotlight is due to the community itself.

There are PLENTY of dead spots or marginal radio coverage areas throughout the county. Rancho Murieta has a lot of money and the residents (for the most part) are very well off financially. Money and education can be a strong catalyst for debate and protest. I can name some very large apartment complexes that have pretty much ZERO radio coverage. They get police/fire service daily (sometimes several times a day) and you don't hear residents crying out. You don't hear apartment managers complaining. But the Fire/Law personnel do and they know the areas well. This doesn't just affect apartment communities, there are several single family residential areas with zero or nearly zero radio coverage. Will and desire of the community can make changes, but often at a financial cost.

 

[clanusb]

i was trying to reframe from bluntly calling it a dead zone for PD's sake.
and i have direct 15 and 16's freqs programmed in, well see how it goes when i go out there for the fourth of july.