Could FM CB supplant FRS?

[W2JGA]

If it helps weeding out the undesirables, make a it requirement to know morse code on FRS/GMRS.

(ducts under tinfoil hat)

 

[BinaryMode]

Go visit a big truck stop and listen to regular CB.

Now imagine that crap bleeding over from AM to FM at higher power levels while your kids sit in the back seat wondering what a lot lizard is.

You're forgetting the tone. If some idiot transmits 'higher power levels' on AM bleeding over to FM, you still have to break the squelch with the tone. Just my two cents.

I think CB CAN be an FRS replacement due to tones and FM. And handhelds do not need a 36" whip either. My RadioShack TRC-231 handhelds don't have a massive antenna and work admirably like an FRS radio, albeit only AM. FM would make the audio better sounding of course and the addition of a tone a little bit more nuisance proof from others. Just like FRS with its tones.

The great thing about CB is that it also performs well in forested areas due to the low frequency getting around trees and whatnot where higher frequency UHF FRS will tend to be absorbed by the foliage. Same can be said of MURS in a forested area since MURS is VHF and not UHF like FRS/GMRS. It's probably why the USFS uses VHF as well as wildland firefighters.

Also, I'm willing to bet FM CB works pretty sweat on water versus FRS if you're family is boating, camping, etc. Just make sure to use a tone.

FRS is too crowded and GMRS is more of a professional thing that most families are not going to mess around with. "Okay, little Timmy, remember your call sign and proper radio etiquette." Not happening. If I had youngins they would NEVER be allowed on GMRS. FRS, MURS or FM CB with tones, yes.

The original question was: Could FM CB supplant FRS? And in my opinion that's a yes.

 

[Varmonter]

A few months ago, I bought a CB radio for my truck after decades of being off the air. Since September 2021 (IIRC) CBs can use FM mode, and this one has that capability. To my surprise, it also has the capability to use "privacy" (a misnomer, but whatever) tones. So, it's now a radio that transmits in FM mode on a free, channelized service, in essence just like FRS. Unlike FRS, however, it can operate at 4 watts, is allowed to have external antennas, and has 40 channels instead of 22. There's no technical reason why FRS would be a better choice for family/friends traveling together or camping/whatever. The main impediment to widespread adoption of FM CB for "family" communication, as I see it, is the cost of entry. CB radios can be had fairly cheaply, but not as cheaply as the "bubble pack" FRS radios. Is there any chance that FM CB could eventually take a significant portion of the FRS market? (Full disclosure -- I don't really care, I'm just curious.)

My wife and I travel fulltime in an rv..we have a car we also use ..when we are on the road we use gmrs handheld to communicate between vehicles..My wife does not suffer fools...she would never allow a cb in her car.
Just doesnt want to listen to it..so the gmrs are quiet will go a few miles if we get separated..The bubble pack frs radios are junk...I've maybe brought 3 pairs of these cheap ones neither set lasted a year..
So I bought a pair of gmrs for about 260 bucks...world of difference..well worth it..
We seldom hear anyone. Usually only going thru cities...so they work for us..cb would not..I have a cb in the truck I enjoy seeing who I can contact while passing the time driving...I shoot skip on 28 and 31am usually.
I reserve 19 for it's intended purpose and monitor it on and off during the day or if there is a backup or road info I think would be of interest to other drivers..
This works for us..

 

[KK4JUG]

My wife and I travel fulltime in an rv..we have a car we also use ..when we are on the road we use gmrs handheld to communicate between vehicles..My wife does not suffer fools...she would never allow a cb in her car.

I have a Cobra CB, one of those everything's-in-the-mic radios. At this moment, I'm not sure where it is. On a trip to Wichita several years ago, I decided to try to use it. The only legitimate traffic I heard was somewhere around Tulsa. Most of what I heard was trash. I'm certainly no prude but I was embarrassed by the language being used by the hookers and truckers, mostly around the truck stops. On the return trip back home, the radio was laying on the floor in the back. I don't and won't need it. For entertainment, I have a Yaesu, SDS 100 and 200 and satellite radio. If I could find the Cobra, I'd probably sell it.

 

[OkieBoyKJ5JFG]

FM CB lacks the use of repeaters whereas GMRS gives you that option if you require it. Repeaters can greatly increase your range if they are available in your area. You may have to pay for use.

This is why I think CB -- AM or FM -- will never seriously compete with GMRS. However, FRS also has no ability to use repeaters. I can see how FM CB could be a more viable option for people who frequently travel in groups and use FRS for car-to-car communication. With the use of tones and FM mode, you could pretty much filter out everyone except your group. Of course, the significantly higher cost is a factor.

 

[OkieBoyKJ5JFG]

I have a Cobra CB, one of those everything's-in-the-mic radios. At this moment, I'm not sure where it is. On a trip to Wichita several years ago, I decided to try to use it. The only legitimate traffic I heard was somewhere around Tulsa. Most of what I heard was trash. I'm certainly no prude but I was embarrassed by the language being used by the hookers and truckers, mostly around the truck stops. On the return trip back home, the radio was laying on the floor in the back. I don't and won't need it. For entertainment, I have a Yaesu, SDS 100 and 200 and satellite radio. If I could find the Cobra, I'd probably sell it.

The radio in my car is a TYT TH-9800 which has the ability to monitor AM CB frequencies. Maybe it can also transmit on FM CB but I don't know; I'd need an entirely different antenna for that. Yesterday because of the snow we had, I used it to monitor CB traffic for road conditions and it was actually useful. I can choose whether to scan them or not. CB is still the best way to find out about road conditions, IMO. But that doesn't address the issue of FM CB, because literally nobody on the road is using it as far as I can determine.

 

[W8UU]

The only way FM CB will supplant FRS and revitalize the 27 MHz CB band is to have a mandatory sunset on AM and SSB operation - or - to carve out 10-15 "FM only" channels (a more likely scenario) to grow the service. Having radios that will only do FM on certain frequencies would be necessary, and you'd need to promote the new mode of operation and all the benefits. You'll also need to give it some time to gain acceptance, and to replace older equipment with new stuff capable of FM transmission. The truth is that CB should have been an FM service 40 years ago.

 

[OkieBoyKJ5JFG]

The only way FM CB will supplant FRS and revitalize the 27 MHz CB band is to have a mandatory sunset on AM and SSB operation - or - to carve out 10-15 "FM only" channels (a more likely scenario) to grow the service. Having radios that will only do FM on certain frequencies would be necessary, and you'd need to promote the new mode of operation and all the benefits. You'll also need to give it some time to gain acceptance, and to replace older equipment with new stuff capable of FM transmission. The truth is that CB should have been an FM service 40 years ago.

My understanding is that "CB" has been mostly or exclusively FM in Europe for decades. That may have been part of the driving force behind adding it in the US -- so manufacturers can sell the same radio all over the world. TBH, I doubt very many people in the US will perceive enough advantage over AM to make it popular.

 

[W8UU]

My understanding is that "CB" has been mostly or exclusively FM in Europe for decades.

TBH, I doubt very many people in the US will perceive enough advantage over AM to make it popular.

Unfortunately you are correct on both. 27 MHz FM CB would be really cool on a lot of counts. Great coverage with modest antenna and RF power requirements, and the quieting and CTCSS options that business band and public safety radio operators have enjoyed for over half a century, just to name a few.

 

[mmckenna]

CB band is to have a mandatory sunset on AM and SSB operation - or - to carve out 10-15 "FM only" channels

That would help, but we know that the children that like to cause problems on CB are not going to sit idly by with their amplifiers and let someone else use CB in peace. There will be those that make a point of running as much power as possible on the FM only channels in AM mode just for the sake of causing issues.

 

[nokones]

FRS legally only has 14 channels. The remaining 8 channels of the 22 are supposed to be designated for GMRS. Yet the FCC allowed FRS radios to include channels 15-22, and nobody reads the fine print on the box or manual that says you need a license to use those channels. Now you got kids and family carpools keying and roger beeping all over GMRS repeater frequencies. That was the downfall of GMRS, and probably the reason why the price dropped to $35 for a 10 year license from $85 for 5 years. The FCC really dropped the ball on that one.

Part 95, subpart B, allows channels 15-22 to be used in FRS certified radios and a license is not required for those channels.

 

[WSAC829]

Part 95, subpart B, allows channels 15-22 to be used in FRS certified radios and a license is not required for those channels.

Yes, yes. It's been pointed out to me earlier in this thread already. I hadn't realized it changed a few years ago. I don't make it a habit read the FCC website regularly to notice small rule changes.

 

[spongella]

My understanding is that "CB" has been mostly or exclusively FM in Europe for decades. That may have been part of the driving force behind adding it in the US -- so manufacturers can sell the same radio all over the world. TBH, I doubt very many people in the US will perceive enough advantage over AM to make it popular.

When the CB band is open to Europe I usually hear FM simplex transmissions from there and marvel on how far they can be heard. However they are on frequencies above the US CB band.

 

[SmileySixguns]

I think it’s too early to tell if it would ever replace it or not. I just purchased my first CB that is capable of utilizing those tones. I currently don’t have anyone else to try it out with. When we travel, we use the tones on the GMRS radios, so having them on CBs would also be great. The women folks almost unanimously don’t want CB antennas on their vehicles. For them, appearances outweigh any benefits.

 

[slowmover]

Wimmenz think UGGS or stiletto daggers “good taste” in footwear.

NMO antenna is the way.
.

 

[KK4JUG]

CB is so far gone it can't be saved with FM, SSB or any other initials. Dressing it up is useless. As I said before, "It's too little, too late." You can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig.

 

[WSAC829]

You can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig

Yeah, but pigs = bacon, and who doesn't love bacon?

 

[KK4JUG]

And I'm a retired LEO and an amateur radio operator so that makes me a pig and a ham.

 

[nokones]

Isn't Ham related right along side of bacon and to the pig family? If it is able to sound like it's frying bacon it has to be part of a pig.

I truly believe that 11 meters will be repurposed in some form in the future. It is not wasted spectrum. 11 meters has its benefits just like 10 meters does. It's very possible that the FM emissions may help rejuvenate the CB radio. If the FCC would allow users to increase the RF output power to something usable would be a big help.

 

[slowmover]

11M is the most useful spectrum.
That it’s currently in disarray isn’t a form of meaning.

.