CTCSS `Tones'

[kb2vxa]

Azden

Hi guys,

While we're on the subject of tones I got to thinking that I lost the manuals for my Azden 2M FM rig and HT. If someone could come up with their oddball PL to number chart it would be appreciated. Yeah, it's a pain in the butt to program should the need arise but without knowing what that number means it's a b****.

A PM or better yet e-mail kb2vxa@swissinfo is best, I may not revisit this thread for a while. Thanks in advance.

Meanwhile, stick with PL and DCS, remember KISS. Not the rock band, keep it simple stupid. (;->)

 

[kb2vxa]

OOPS! Make that kb2vxa@swissinfo.org, sorry.

 

[K5MAR]

Also, Kenwood uses QT & DQT for Quiet Talk and Digital Quiet Talk.

Must be their commercial gear. The amateur manuals I checked used CTCSS and DCS. I guess that Kenwood, like Motorola, et al, have to have a proprietary term for the commercial radios' features.

Mark S.

 

[Voyager]

Hmmmmmmm... This is starting to get even more `interesting?' than I first figured! {VB GRIN!}

There are another 12 tones that are used in many commercial tone panels.

OK... And just where do those 12 tones fit in? And... Where, if we were able, would we find them in use?

Here are the non-standard tones: (I'm pretty sure this is them)

69.3 Hz
97.4 Hz
159.8 Hz
165.5 Hz
171.3 Hz
177.3 Hz
183.5 Hz
189.9 Hz
196.6 Hz
199.5 Hz
206.5 Hz
229.1 Hz

Here is a complete table of the 50 tones:

67.0 Hz
69.3 Hz
71.9 Hz
74.4 Hz
77.0 Hz
79.7 Hz
82.5 Hz
85.4 Hz
88.5 Hz
91.5 Hz
94.8 Hz
97.4 Hz
100.0 Hz
103.5 Hz
107.2 Hz
110.9 Hz
114.8 Hz
118.8 Hz
123.0 Hz
127.3 Hz
131.8 Hz
136.5 Hz
141.3 Hz
146.2 Hz
151.4 Hz
156.7 Hz
159.8 Hz
162.2 Hz
165.5 Hz
167.9 Hz
171.3 Hz
173.8 Hz
177.3 Hz
179.9 Hz
183.5 Hz
186.2 Hz
189.9 Hz
192.8 Hz
196.6 Hz
199.5 Hz
203.5 Hz
206.5 Hz
210.7 Hz
218.1 Hz
225.7 Hz
229.1 Hz
233.6 Hz
241.8 Hz
250.3 Hz
254.1 Hz

Where COULD you find them in use? ANYWHERE! But especially on business systems since many commercial community tone panels support them. There ARE some falsing issues with adjacent tones on some panels.

Also keep in mind there are other tones (standards and not) that are used in Federal systems as well as business systems. One user near me uses 81.0 Hz CTCSS. You won't find that on any chart - it's completely non-standard. There are many other non-standard tones used throughout the USA, too.

Joe M.

 

[Halfpint]

Voyager

Thanks! And WHOA! BTW, I'm not all that surprised that there would be some manufacturers out there that would use `proprietary?' tones. After all... What a good way to lock someone in to just using your equipment. {FROWN!}

 

[Voyager]

Voyager

Thanks! And WHOA! BTW, I'm not all that surprised that there would be some manufacturers out there that would use `proprietary?' tones. After all... What a good way to lock someone in to just using your equipment. {FROWN!}

You're welcome, and really I haven't seen many new non-standard tones come up in the last 20 years. Most of them seem to be older ones - maybe put on the air before there were set standards.

The 'extra 12' are the most recent 'new' tones to come about, and I haven't seen wide adoption of most of those except for a few (97.4 and 206.5 and 229.1)

Joe M.

 

[nmfire10]

Also, Kenwood uses QT & DQT for Quiet Talk and Digital Quiet Talk.

Must be their commercial gear. The amateur manuals I checked used CTCSS and DCS. I guess that Kenwood, like Motorola, et al, have to have a proprietary term for the commercial radios' features.

Mark S.

Absolutely.

 

[nd5y]

Comunications Specialist has a encoder/decoders with 64 tones
http://www.com-spec.com/index1.htm
http://www.com-spec.com/64sw.htm

I think I remember seeing some other manufacturer that had one
that was programmable from about 30 - 300 Hz in .1 Hz increments.

 

[Voyager]

Comunications Specialist has a encoder/decoders with 64 tones
http://www.com-spec.com/index1.htm
http://www.com-spec.com/64sw.htm

I think I remember seeing some other manufacturer that had one
that was programmable from about 30 - 300 Hz in .1 Hz increments.

Well, the GE MPI was programmable in .25 Hz incrememts, but that doesn't mean all the tones would work. Even the some of the 'extra 12' false adjacent tones. And the tunable units have an infinite number of tones. But, same limitations. I think the MASTR II programmable CTCSS encoder was set in .25 Hz steps, too. In both cases, you had to program 131.75 for 131.8 Hz. The difference didn't matter - it still worked fine.

That is an interesting unit, and shows well the non-standard tones.

BUT, using low EIA tones results in slow decode times. Using non-standard tones below 67 Hz will result in even longer decode times - possibly to the point it's not tolerable. (key the mic, wait 2 seconds, then talk)

Joe M.

 

[DaveH]

I can't for the life of me figure out where 64 tones would be useful, on any single channel at least; perhaps in a multi-channel conventional system. The maximum number of radios per channel should easily be handled in most cases with 38 tones, or even half of those (using every 2nd one just in case some decoders false on the adjacent tone. The ones below 67Hz are questionable, relying on the radio's capability to handle them, plus the longer decode time as mentioned.

Dave

 

[Halfpint]

Interesting... The depth of knowlege available here at RR is impressive. Between just the posts themselves and the various links, and the `sub-links?' that they generate if I was still in college I'd have the makings of a decent term paper. (Note: I am *not* saying that it would a term paper that *I* would write but that it *could* be used as the starting point for one for someone in one of those newfangled `Communications' courses one sees becoming `popular?' at the more `trendy?' institutions.)

However... I am still wondering just *who* it was who first brought out the original `tones' and what were they? (Even with all the searching I've managed to do I really haven't found any place where there was a definite `smoking gun' highlighting the start. [I'll also admit that I am not the best `Googler' around and usually only stumble across whatever I am looking for most of the time. I tend to be easily distracted into following sometime totally unrelated avenues just because they just happen to pique some other interest I may have.])

Thanks, guys! This is one of the more enjoyable `threads' I've read, and very slightly participated in, in quite a while and I'd be remiss if I didn't say that I've learned quite a bit. (EG: The lower the tone the harder it is to decode it and the long the resultant delay.)

 

[Voyager]

I can't for the life of me figure out where 64 tones would be useful, on any single channel at least; perhaps in a multi-channel conventional system. The maximum number of radios per channel should easily be handled in most cases with 38 tones, or even half of those (using every 2nd one just in case some decoders false on the adjacent tone. The ones below 67Hz are questionable, relying on the radio's capability to handle them, plus the longer decode time as mentioned.

Dave

Near any metro area, it's easy to use 38 tones and many of the 104 CDCSS codes, not counting the users that were shut off for non-payment -resulting in 'useless' tones. These are for communuty repeaters, of course, not a single-user frequency such as many PS frequencies are.

Joe M.

 

[Tophtoh]

Older PL Tones

OK, was wondering if anyone could help me out. I'm looking for a website that had explanations of PL Tones and what not. It stated that most departments use certain PL Tones because that is what is in older Motorola radios. I just want to find what PL tones they were, if anyone knows or can help me out it would be appreciated, thanks.

 

[loumaag]

Try starting on the Wiki. Specifically:
http://www.radioreference.com/apps/wiki/index.php?title=RR_FAQ