Defund Encryption

N1KK

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I'm just glad that now that things have settled down the Board of Supervisors of my County did turn encryption off this morning at 0600 per the policy in post 108. The civil unrest has gone away in my area, actually never had it in my suburban area.

Didn't cost them a dime to turn it on and didn't cost a dime to turn it off

The policy is in writing and they stood by it.

Of course they could change that at any time.

More transparency to the median, safer operations for volunteer firefighters who were not encrypted but could no longer hear the police and even the EMTs know what they're getting into now other than the limited information they're given on their non-encrypted system.
That was great hearing that. With the right scanner groups around the Country and someone knowing how to organize, maybe we can get lots of emails out to legislators requesting this transparency. I plan to send an email to the ARRL.
Ken
 

N1KK

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That was great hearing that. With the right scanner groups around the Country and someone knowing how to organize, maybe we can get lots of emails out to legislators requesting this transparency. I plan to send an email to the ARRL.
Ken
I would suggest others to email the ARRL and tell them in the interest of Police Transparency and to expose how hard our Police and First Responders work, they request to end Encryption allowing the public once again be able to monitor.
 

svrstorm

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I have a perfect example of why to keep them in the clear. I was driving to work, listening to LA Co. Sheriff. On the route I normally take, there was a protest taking place, so I took an alternate route. A couple minutes later, that protest turned violent and they started attacking cars in the street, completely destroying several.

That would have been me! I literally would have been stuck right in that mess and very likely been attacked. I had no other way of knowing what was going on, except for what I heard on the radio.
In Tulsa dispatch is in the clear all other channels are not but at least you know what’s going on.
 

N1KK

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I would suggest others to email the ARRL and tell them in the interest of Police Transparency and to expose how hard our Police and First Responders work, they request to end Encryption allowing the public once again be able to monitor.
Got an update from the ARRL. They can't offer much because it's not related to part 97. If there are any Scanner Magazines left that might be a good place to start.
 

trentbob

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That was great hearing that. With the right scanner groups around the Country and someone knowing how to organize, maybe we can get lots of emails out to legislators requesting this transparency. I plan to send an email to the ARRL.
Ken
Yes the county leaders have been leading a campaign of transparency of the police. It is good that they turned the encryption back off as promised, however, the policy is that an individual officer can encrypt his transmission if he feels it's sensitive. If they forget to switch it back they are reminded by the dispatcher.

What's happening is, some dispatchers are diligent about reminding them to turn their encryption off after sensitive information is over and other dispatchers don't care. By the end of the shift some zones are entirely encrypted except for the dispatcher. I venture to say there is resistance by the cops LOL.

Now, this shooting of a fleeing felon who struck an officer, stole his taser and shot it at him just missing his head... charges have been filed against the officer and his career is over and he faces serious consequences.

You're already starting to see the backlash. Of course it's being censored in the news but many Atlanta officers are not showing up for work or calling out sick. This is happening in other areas of the country including Los Angeles. Sort of a backlash.

I haven't looked up Tulsa frequencies but if dispatch is able to be encrypted I wonder what's going to happen during the presidents rally coming up in Tulsa. Plans are for "protesters" to be bused in.

Yes I'm glad our system was returned to only partial encryption. It was a tough 3 weeks listening to EMS and fire only LOL.

For some reason I don't think it's going to last and I wouldn't be going out and buying another SDS radio :)
 
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W9BU

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Got an update from the ARRL. They can't offer much because it's not related to part 97.
Exactly. I would not expect the ARRL to get involved in a matter that is outside amateur radio.

AFAIK, all of the scanner magazines have stopped publishing. Not enough interest. That should tell you something.
 

kruser

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AFAIK, all of the scanner magazines have stopped publishing. Not enough interest. That should tell you something.
Here's the one publication still going since Monitoring Times shut down. The Spectrum Monitor - Powered by Network Solutions.
I think its run by many of the same column authors from the old Monitoring Times.

I thought there was another publication still going but I can't think of it at the moment.
The link above for TSM is an electronic PDF download, they never published printed copies.
 

trentbob

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Exactly. I would not expect the ARRL to get involved in a matter that is outside amateur radio.

AFAIK, all of the scanner magazines have stopped publishing. Not enough interest. That should tell you something.
I would think writing emails or letters to anybody is not going to make any difference if government leadership or police departments want to encrypt. With today's systems it doesn't cost a dime because it's already in the radios.

What worked in my County was emails sent to the Board of Supervisors of municipalities and County Commissioners who control the radio room and the system that different townships use.

As I've always said police really didn't have a problem with, ham operators, serious hobbyist, volunteer fireman, other public responders and media types purchasing expensive equipment and programming it with GOOD INTENTIONS.

It was never an issue and wasn't an issue when our P2 simulcast tdma system was established in 2015. Encryption was not an issue, the decision was made to be in the clear, In time, because of reasons I won't discuss here, top LE pushed for encryption. They were very vocal about their reasons.

It was emails sent to the right people from First Responders and media types that resulted in the partial encryption and having dispatch in the clear with the caveat of an individual officer being able to encrypt sensitive information and at any point the county can throw the switch or switch to a designated encrypted Channel.

It's better than nothing. Nothing is what a lot of people are ending up with.

We are in a real time of flux now. None of today's events lends to optimism of not having an increase of encryption.

The small minority of radicals demanding defunding of police is just posturing and plain nonsense. They are getting all of the media attention but if things continue the way they are, exactly the opposite will happen.
 

N1KK

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I would think writing emails or letters to anybody is not going to make any difference if government leadership or police departments want to encrypt. With today's systems it doesn't cost a dime because it's already in the radios.

What worked in my County was emails sent to the Board of Supervisors of municipalities and County Commissioners who control the radio room and the system that different townships use.

As I've always said police really didn't have a problem with, ham operators, serious hobbyist, volunteer fireman, other public responders and media types purchasing expensive equipment and programming it with GOOD INTENTIONS.

It was never an issue and wasn't an issue when our P2 simulcast tdma system was established in 2015. Encryption was not an issue, the decision was made to be in the clear, In time, because of reasons I won't discuss here, top LE pushed for encryption. They were very vocal about their reasons.

It was emails sent to the right people from First Responders and media types that resulted in the partial encryption and having dispatch in the clear with the caveat of an individual officer being able to encrypt sensitive information and at any point the county can throw the switch or switch to a designated encrypted Channel.

It's better than nothing. Nothing is what a lot of people are ending up with.

We are in a real time of flux now. None of today's events lends to optimism of not having an increase of encryption.

The small minority of radicals demanding defunding of police is just posturing and plain nonsense. They are getting all of the media attention but if things continue the way they are, exactly the opposite will happen.
I guess its how bad you would like to see encryption relaxed will determine if your willing to send the emails or just give up. The Transparency for Police scanners sounded good but it would take a nation wide no how to learn who to target in your area for the request. Your tip was good.
 

trentbob

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I guess its how bad you would like to see encryption relaxed will determine if your willing to send the emails or just give up. The Transparency for Police scanners sounded good but it would take a nation wide no how to learn who to target in your area for the request. Your tip was good.
Haha, I've been monitoring police since I was around 12 on a slide rule dial monitor. It led to a successful career as a newspaper reporter and I have never stopped listening to this day.

No one wants to lose the ability to hear police calls, especially me. Realistically, talking about it on forums or related radio publications is like preaching to the choir.

We just got lucky that our government leaders listened to First Responders and media types. Not everybody is going to be as lucky.

I just hope we don't lose it. I'm 66 and retired and that's a long time to have my ears on to what's happening in my immediate area. :)
 

Pete_uk

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What would happen once a police department went over to a PTT over 4G? They would have to have some kind of feed coming out which could of course be switched off when needed.
 

mmckenna

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What would happen once a police department went over to a PTT over 4G? They would have to have some kind of feed coming out which could of course be switched off when needed.
Very few agencies in the USA have switched completely over to 4G type services for their communications. Many agencies do have access to FirstNet, a "nationwide" LTE network that will handle voice, data and video.

There are 'gateways' that will handle the transition between 4G/LTE and traditional 2 way radio.

Dispatchers could link/patch as needed. Some agencies may choose to keep the link up all the time. Really depends.
 

mastertech007

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I do not want to start a discussion about the pro/cons of encryption, I just want to let everybody know that I contacted my State Senator and State Assembly member to begin the process of drafting a Bill to ban Encryption on Dispatch channels in California. I have been very distressed by the events that have happened In our country in the past week. The last straw was the video in Buffalo that showed an officer shoving to the ground a 75 year old man now in hospital. The officers involved, lied and attempted to cover up the incident. Enough is Enough. Please join me and contact your elected representatives. We cant hide our problems forever.
It's people like you as to WHY we encrypt the channels for First Responders. There is no reason for anyone to hear calls LIVE, "THIS IS AN OFFICER SAFETY ISSUE". Besides, the radios are ALREADY capable of the encryption and it does not cost us ANYTHING to check a box and turn it on.
We are not trying to hide anything, the recorded audio is public record, we just do not want you to get it LIVE.. Fill out the form and get the audio, that easy!!
When the officers are trying track down the suspect, it is beneficial for them to be encrypted and not in the clear, bad guy does not know which way they are coming for them...
 

alcahuete

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When the officers are trying track down the suspect, it is beneficial for them to be encrypted and not in the clear, bad guy does not know which way they are coming for them...
This is an old and tired argument made by you law enforcement folks. I can count on one hand the number of times I have personally seen scanners involved in the tracking of suspects. I would be willing to bet you have never arrested someone who happened to be using a scanner to evade capture.

Officer safety issue? It was never an officer safety issue for decades, now all of the sudden it is? Yeah.... Has nothing to do with officer safety. Law enforcement works for us. They are our employees. They serve the needs of the people, not the needs of themselves, not the needs of the agency.......the needs of the people. If the people decide to end encryption, in the name of law enforcement transparency, you can either go along with the will of the people, or get a different job where you feel safer.
 

KK4JUG

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This is an old and tired argument made by you law enforcement folks. I can count on one hand the number of times I have personally seen scanners involved in the tracking of suspects. I would be willing to bet you have never arrested someone who happened to be using a scanner to evade capture.

Officer safety issue? It was never an officer safety issue for decades, now all of the sudden it is? Yeah.... Has nothing to do with officer safety. Law enforcement works for us. They are our employees. They serve the needs of the people, not the needs of themselves, not the needs of the agency.......the needs of the people. If the people decide to end encryption, in the name of law enforcement transparency, you can either go along with the will of the people, or get a different job where you feel safer.
I was an officer in a medium-sized city for over 30 years. I can't even count on one finger the number of times a scanner was involved. Nonetheless, the city encrypted all public safety last year, I think mostly because they could.
 
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