Douglas County MotoTRBO

[N8IAA]

Just to start off with, this thread started out with info being posted for the GA folks who like to be informed about what's going on in the state. MTS2000des and John had technical info relevant to the topic.
kayn1n32008, why are you posting YTCW? John has a vested interest to promote MOTOTRBO, he's a dealer. To understand what goes on in the state of GA, you need see all that is going on with the politics and back door deals that are rampant here. Systems have been sold without regard to what technical advisement has been given to the governments that purchase the bloated designs.
I find nothing wrong with getting new systems that are cheaper and to save money, but when they aren't adding the sites necessary to make it work... Well that's just how they think here in the great state of GAWGA.
Larry

 

[JRayfield]

My company is also a Motorola Solutions MR (Manufacturer's Representative) and can 'sell' Astro 25 systems and equipment, too. So, you could say that I have a 'vested interest' in Motorola P25 systems for public safety agencies, too. I just don't like seeing people 'badmouth' MOTOTRBO (DMR) as being 'no good', when there is nothing wrong with the technology and the technology will work just fine for public safety systems, the same that analog has worked for public safety systems for years, if the systems are designed/installed properly. The same is true of Astro 25 systems. If those systems aree not designed/installed properly, then they aren't going to work well either.

I like your statement "when they aren't adding the sites necessary to make it work... Well that's just how they think here in the great state of GAWGA". Unfortunately, they think like that in a lot places around the U.S. You couldn't have stated this any better.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma
W0PM

Just to start off with, this thread started out with info being posted for the GA folks who like to be informed about what's going on in the state. MTS2000des and John had technical info relevant to the topic.
kayn1n32008, why are you posting YTCW? John has a vested interest to promote MOTOTRBO, he's a dealer. To understand what goes on in the state of GA, you need see all that is going on with the politics and back door deals that are rampant here. Systems have been sold without regard to what technical advisement has been given to the governments that purchase the bloated designs.
I find nothing wrong with getting new systems that are cheaper and to save money, but when they aren't adding the sites necessary to make it work... Well that's just how they think here in the great state of GAWGA.
Larry

 

[MTS2000des]

UPDATE: most of the DCSO fleet have been changed out with TRBO portables/mobiles. Saw a deputy this afternoon on Thornton Rd/Maxham at the QT. He had an XPR7550 with a high tier noise cancelling RSM. Did not get to chat with him.

So it appears they are well on their way to moving to MotoTRBO, at least their fleet has been migrated. Being that they had XTL5000s and quite a bit of P25 conventional gear (seen everything from XTS5000s, XTS15000s to analog only HT1000s in use) and are replacing ALL the subscriber hardware, it's only a matter of time.

I really would like more info on their new system. Maybe it's still in the final planning stages. As far as the people who are saying TRBO won't cut it in a public safety environment, ask Paulding county, Polk county and Jackson county how like their UHF TRBO systems respectively. Paulding used to struggle with a simulcast single channel repeater that barely had portable coverage on the street doing the "statue of liberty". Go listen to their stream and tell me how they sound now.

White county is a different animal, it's all mountainous, and any radio system in challenging terrain will have coverage problems if not enough TX/RX sites are in places where they are needed. P25 would be no different if there was inadequate infrastructure in place, or NXDN, or TETRA or two cups and a string for that matter.

I think alot of the "hatorade" about TRBO on these forums comes from the fact that no turdy crap scanner can receive TRBO/DMR out of the box. So what. When they go P25 they encrypt anyway thanks to all the big mouths and streaming so why not have LESS of YOUR and MY tax money spent and our public safety actually get what WE pay for?

 

[nunyax]

Some communications officers from Douglas County recently visited Morgan County to check out their MotoTRBO system.

Morgan Emergency Services creates outside interests

A poorly written article. No wonder there is no name in the byline.

 

[micco]

Is Habersham using their deprecated 'old' VHF frequencies, or are they using new, undocumented, on RR database, frequencies?
Larry

They are using the old VHF channel. Quiet often they will dispatch a call and the dispatcher says to stay on dispatch channel. My understanding is that the digital channels are still up but not used due to coverage issues. I image the RR database could use some updates as well. I don't spend any time in the "Sham" any more but I will ask around.

 

[micco]

So you do not even know why the system is not working, you just want to blame the salesmen and the Motorola 'koolaid drinkers'

How about blaming the politicians that most likely underfunded the build out(happens all the time, resulting in a systems that lacks coverage.) A good example is my province. SOLGEN wanted a province wide 95/95 portable on belt system, but when they saw the price tag balked, and bought a 95/95 mobile primary/secondary highway coverage system... Difference? About 2 billion dollars...

Speaks volumes.

As for saying it is not mission critical, I contend the XPR 7550 is a better, tougher radio than the HT-750/1250/1550 series, and they have been used in public safety since they were introduced... Your argument does not hold water.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Thank you for making my point. The ONLY people that stand behind these systems are the ones that think it makes them look good (Kool aid drinkers) and the ones that make a dollar off of them (sales reps). EVERY one that I know that uses this system on a daily bases has NOTHING good to say about it. Again design flaw or bad technology, the end users do not like it because it is unreliable. I know people in two separate counties that use MotoTRBO systems installed by the same company and the complaints are all the same, unreliable, horrid audio quality, and coverage issues. The coverage issues and to some degree unreliability can probably be chocked up to design flaw but the audio quality can not. But with that being said regarding coverage issues, I know White county was told NO ADDITIONAL repeaters or towers would need to be installed and coverage would improve. Coverage has been degraded... Ultimately the taxpayer gets screwed and thats my problem.

And back to the tough or not tough, mission critical or not, the people that USE it all say that after rain exposer the radios quit working. They all say their old HT1000s and MT2000s did NOT suffer that same problem. Again the end user versus that ones that stand to make a buck off of it.

 

[JRayfield]

What you posted here does not fit at all with what I personally have experienced with MOTOTRBO, both from the technology standpoint and from the equipment reliability standpoint. Nor does it fit at all with many users of MOTOTRBO systems in our area (ones that we've installed or have 'fixed').

Since you're going to make such 'claims' against MOTOTRBO (the technology and the reliability of the equipment itself), please forward the names of some of the people who I speak with, who will confirm what you're stating. You can send these to me in a Private Message. As soon as I receive those, I'll forward back to you, via Private Message, the names of some who will easily dispute your 'accusations' against the technology and the reliability of the equipment.

As to system design problems, I've seen that for years on analog systems. That's really nothing new, other than the new digital technology is more complex to set up and so some techs may not be 'up to speed' on it quite yet. The result can be systems that don't work as well as they should be working, or they just need to be redesigned.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma

Thank you for making my point. The ONLY people that stand behind these systems are the ones that think it makes them look good (Kool aid drinkers) and the ones that make a dollar off of them (sales reps). EVERY one that I know that uses this system on a daily bases has NOTHING good to say about it. Again design flaw or bad technology, the end users do not like it because it is unreliable. I know people in two separate counties that use MotoTRBO systems installed by the same company and the complaints are all the same, unreliable, horrid audio quality, and coverage issues. The coverage issues and to some degree unreliability can probably be chocked up to design flaw but the audio quality can not. But with that being said regarding coverage issues, I know White county was told NO ADDITIONAL repeaters or towers would need to be installed and coverage would improve. Coverage has been degraded... Ultimately the taxpayer gets screwed and thats my problem.

And back to the tough or not tough, mission critical or not, the people that USE it all say that after rain exposer the radios quit working. They all say their old HT1000s and MT2000s did NOT suffer that same problem. Again the end user versus that ones that stand to make a buck off of it.

 

[MTS2000des]

I'd like to know too. The Paulding county UHF MotoTRBO system is miles above their old VHF analog conventional. None of the officers I know have ANY complaints and are, in fact, thrilled they can actually use their portable radios inside the Hiram Wal-Mart, the new Paulding hospital, the high schools, and have plenty of wide area channels they can use.

It's easy to blame a technology when a poor implementation is the root cause. Poor system planning and buildout happens on analog conventional, P25 trunked and conventional, TRBO, NXDN, TETRA, OpenSky, 4G LTE, WiFi and two cups and a string.:lol:

 

[micco]

What you posted here does not fit at all with what I personally have experienced with MOTOTRBO, both from the technology standpoint and from the equipment reliability standpoint. Nor does it fit at all with many users of MOTOTRBO systems in our area (ones that we've installed or have 'fixed').

Since you're going to make such 'claims' against MOTOTRBO (the technology and the reliability of the equipment itself), please forward the names of some of the people who I speak with, who will confirm what you're stating. You can send these to me in a Private Message. As soon as I receive those, I'll forward back to you, via Private Message, the names of some who will easily dispute your 'accusations' against the technology and the reliability of the equipment.

As to system design problems, I've seen that for years on analog systems. That's really nothing new, other than the new digital technology is more complex to set up and so some techs may not be 'up to speed' on it quite yet. The result can be systems that don't work as well as they should be working, or they just need to be redesigned.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma

First off, this is the most asinine thing I have heard in awhile. What are you going to do, call these people and say, "Hey some dude on the internet says the radios I champion says they suck." This is ridiculous! Understand that the radios you champion do not work for everyone. They are not perfect. When utilized for what they are designed for I am sure they work well. Also, and I say this with all sincerity, I am sure if you designed and installed the systems I speak of they would probably work better because it is more and more obvious to those that work with this system that the piss poor design and implementation is a significant issue with the system. No, Mototrbo is not for everyone, no Mototrbo is not perfect, Yes this system is poorly designed which is leading to many of its problems, Yes it will probably work properly one day. Grow up dude.

 

[kayn1n32008]

Thank you for making my point.

What point? The fact that a poorly planned, designed, installed or funded system will never work correctly?

The ONLY people that stand behind these systems are the ones that think it makes them look good (Kool aid drinkers) and the ones that make a dollar off of them (sales reps).

Why is that? Was it not funded properly? Poorly designed? Or poorly installed?

EVERY one that I know that uses this system on a daily bases has NOTHING good to say about it. Again design flaw or bad technology, the end users do not like it because it is unreliable.

So it's not the technology, it was likely either not designed, deployed or funded properly.

I know people in two separate counties that use MotoTRBO systems installed by the same company and the complaints are all the same, unreliable, horrid audio quality, and coverage issues.

Do we see a common denominator? Like the vendor?

The coverage issues and to some degree unreliability can probably be chocked up to design flaw but the audio quality can not.

Actually the audio from DMR is surprisingly good. I use a good system at one of my clients sites. I actually prefer it to the analogue system it replaced. Yet one local company abandoned DMR because the installer had NO clue how to set up the many audio settings.

But with that being said regarding coverage issues, I know White county was told NO ADDITIONAL repeaters or towers would need to be installed and coverage would improve.

Same vendor as the other counties that had issues?

Coverage has been degraded... Ultimately the taxpayer gets screwed and thats my problem.

Could very well be.

And back to the tough or not tough, mission critical or not, the people that USE it all say that after rain exposer the radios quit working. They all say their old HT1000s and MT2000s did NOT suffer that same problem. Again the end user versus that ones that stand to make a buck off of it.

So were the radios that they bought rain rated?

First off, this is the most asinine thing I have heard in awhile. What are you going to do, call these people and say, "Hey some dude on the internet says the radios I champion says they suck." This is ridiculous! Understand that the radios you champion do not work for everyone. They are not perfect. When utilized for what they are designed for I am sure they work well. Also, and I say this with all sincerity, I am sure if you designed and installed the systems I speak of they would probably work better because it is more and more obvious to those that work with this system that the piss poor design and implementation is a significant issue with the system. No, Mototrbo is not for everyone, no Mototrbo is not perfect, Yes this system is poorly designed which is leading to many of its problems, Yes it will probably work properly one day.

That was the most immature statement ever.

Grow up dude

Pot calling the kettle black?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[rapidcharger]

Is Habersham using their deprecated 'old' VHF frequencies, or are they using new, undocumented, on RR database, frequencies?
Larry

I heard activity on habersham fire VHF last week when I was scanning the mountains. I was kind of surprised to see that one pop up. It's been a while since I last saw it.

 

[JRayfield]

Actually, that is exactly what I have already done with at least one system. I called them up and told them that I had heard, through some online forums, that they might be having some problems with their system and ended up with a very nice conversation. Eventually, we may be doing a bit of work for them, to help 'fine tune' their system, after some very obvious and 'major' problems are resolved by another consultant who they had already hired. We've already done some work for some other MOTOTRBO system owners and have gotten those systems working quite well. We'll be doing the same on another system, starting in a few weeks.

No, MOTOTRBO is not for 'everyone', but it definitely should be working much better than some of these sysems are doing. And in most cases, the problems are related to system design and/or implementation (including programming of the equipment). I'm glad that you're recognizing that. And I fully agree, there is no such thing as a 'perfect' communications system, of any kind. But, the MOTOTRBO technology should, can, and does work better than what you've seen personally, when everything is designed and set up properly. And I would be very much interested in visiting with those system owners about 'fixing' their problems.

Not sure what you mean by 'grow up'.

John Rayfield, Jr.

First off, this is the most asinine thing I have heard in awhile. What are you going to do, call these people and say, "Hey some dude on the internet says the radios I champion says they suck." This is ridiculous! Understand that the radios you champion do not work for everyone. They are not perfect. When utilized for what they are designed for I am sure they work well. Also, and I say this with all sincerity, I am sure if you designed and installed the systems I speak of they would probably work better because it is more and more obvious to those that work with this system that the piss poor design and implementation is a significant issue with the system. No, Mototrbo is not for everyone, no Mototrbo is not perfect, Yes this system is poorly designed which is leading to many of its problems, Yes it will probably work properly one day. Grow up dude.

 

[profiledescent]

Former dispatcher here. Presently use DMR in hobby comm. It's a great system. I've seen UHF analog swapped out to DMR (same freq pairings and sites) with no lose of coverage. Existing multi-site systems are more easiliy managed and simple than trunking. I found P25 to have fine audio, but when trunked, has too many fail points. It's also/was a fish hook made of grant money, and with out that grant money, beyond the budget for a lot of smaller communities, thus DMR.

INTEROP can be accomplished easily enough across the platforms anymore using other means (crosstie, bridge, etc). In fact, the fail point in INTEROP that is most common lately seems to be the user in the field not knowing how to fully operate their HT.

There's nothing wrong with DMR. As with the anti-chatter I've heard about P25, Fusion, DSTAR, etc., it's usually a knowledge, understanding, or experience issue with the one speaking.

$0.02

 

[DanRollman]

I heard activity on habersham fire VHF last week when I was scanning the mountains. I was kind of surprised to see that one pop up. It's been a while since I last saw it.

Habersham County fire and law enforcement agencies are on a MotoTRBO Capacity+ VHF trunked system. Habersham Fire/EMS Dispatch is simulcast on 155.310 analog. White County fire and law enforcement agencies are on conventional MotoTRBO repeaters. White Fire/EMS Dispatch is simulcast on 155.715 analog. Both counties primarily (but not exclusively) use frequencies which are not licensed directly to the counties themselves, but are properly licensed. That's all I'll say about that.

Dan

 

[RADIOGUY2002]

JRayfield

If true words were never spoken. Their are some really bad designed systems. I came across one the other day that I thought was going to be bad, but it blew my socks off. The entire system works on a 3" stubby good into the county line, granted the stuff is 110feet in the air but still. Crystal clear as if i was standing right next to the person. Another site is god awful, but two systems design after the one site are awesome. New equipment or different version of firmware??

 

[SkiBob]

This morning the Douglas County Sheriff's Department made the switch to their new digital system. I am not sure what frequency they are now using, but the 152.745 that the fire department uses on their LTR system all of a sudden has a lot of digital noise. The fire department is complaining about radio problems.... go figure.

 

[rapidcharger]

This morning the Douglas County Sheriff's Department made the switch to their new digital system. I am not sure what frequency they are now using, but the 152.745 that the fire department uses on their LTR system all of a sudden has a lot of digital noise. The fire department is complaining about radio problems.... go figure.

I'm sure the boys from Tusa Consulting are already on their way out to solve that problem.

 

[K4SVT]

The wonders of intermod and band splatter..

Sent via LG G2 on Sprint 4G LTE Spark

 

[MTS2000des]

I'm sure the boys from Tusa Consulting are already on their way out to solve that problem.

Yep, not the required $72 per person has been spent yet. According to their new budget, only $202,000 was increased to pay for Sheriff department "required radio system upgrades".

http://www.celebratedouglascounty.c...le=/2014BudgetBookforElectronicSubmission.pdf

 

[K4SVT]

Anyone know the Talkgroup for Fire or they still on LTR?

Sent via LG G2 on Sprint 4G LTE Spark