Dual-band antenna for GMRS transmitting and NWR/NOAA receiving

[bjewett]

I'm seeking advice for a dual band mobile antenna for GMRS uhf + NOAA weather radio (NWR) vhf. I'll be transmitting only on GMRS, and VHF will be for 162 MHz receive only. I'm a meteorologist gathering weather data & stills/video near storms so NOAA receive is important, and I want the exterior antenna and receiver to do better than a portable weather radio inside the car.

I'm going to purchase a Wouxun KG-XS20G for this GMRS/weather combination.

Any recommendations? So far I've found or seen suggested:

* Larsen NMO2/70B 35" 2m/70cm antenna. GMRS and NWR both fall outside this antenna's strengths, but it was recommended on one site for GMRS use.
* Diamond NR770HBNMO 38" 2m/70cm antenna
* Nagoya UT-72G 20" 140-170MHz, 420-470MHz GMRS antenna, 3.5 dbi, has both in specified freq range
* Tram 1181 19" 140-170/430-470 MHz, some said not so great for GMRS, and noisy at speed
* Various GMRS/MURS antennas though NWR off top end of their vhf specification
* Comet CA-2X4SR 40" 2m/70cm antenna

Any comments much appreciated!!

 

[AK9R]

Larsen NMO150450C would cover your frequencies of interest better than the NMO2/70B. The Larsen NMO150/450/800 would also work, but it would have less gain than the NMO150450C.

I would avoid any antenna made for amateur radio. They are tuned for 430-440 MHz and you need 462-468 MHz for GMRS. I would be suspicious of any antenna that claims it has equal gain or radiation pattern over a 30 MHz range on VHF or a 50 MHz range on UHF.

 

[mmckenna]

AK9R has an excellent suggestion. It's a purpose built dual band antenna designed for these frequencies. Since it is designed to cover the part of the UHF band where GMRS is located, it's going to outperform all the antennas you've listed below. It'll also do very well on VHF, as it is designed to be a VHF antenna that works where you need it to.

Any recommendations? So far I've found or seen suggested:

* Larsen NMO2/70B 35" 2m/70cm antenna. GMRS and NWR both fall outside this antenna's strengths, but it was recommended on one site for GMRS use.

Poor choice. The amateur 70cm band is down at 430-450MHz. GMRS is 462/467MHz. While the antenna does have a bit of usable bandwidth, it's not going to work well on GMRS. You can do better.
Also, the VHF side of that antenna is designed for 144-148MHz, NOAA is at 162. It'll work, but not as well as a antennas designed for what you are doing.

* Diamond NR770HBNMO 38" 2m/70cm antenna

Same as above. Ham radio antenna isn't going to work well on GMRS. It's a compromise, and probably recommended because it is cheap and easily available from Amazon.

* Nagoya UT-72G 20" 140-170MHz, 420-470MHz GMRS antenna, 3.5 dbi, has both in specified freq range

If you are this serious about getting a decent antenna, skip the Chinese stuff. You can do better. Also, classic marketing lies. A 20 inch tall antenna is not going to have 3.5dB gain on VHF.

* Tram 1181 19" 140-170/430-470 MHz, some said not so great for GMRS, and noisy at speed

Tram is classic Cheap Chinese Antenna. It'll probably work, but you can do better. The few dollars you might save over a known commercial brand will quickly bite you in the butt when you have to replace it sooner than the others. Zero support and you won't find spare parts.

* Various GMRS/MURS antennas though NWR off top end of their vhf specification

Most of these GMRS/MURS antennas are aimed at hobby use, and usually low cost/low quality. If you take out the radio specific names and just look at the frequencies you need, you will get a better antenna.

* Comet CA-2X4SR 40" 2m/70cm antenna

Amateur radio monstrosity. Designed for amateur radio operators that want to hack their ham radios to work on frequencies that their radios shouldn't be on. Not a good choice.

Any comments much appreciated!!

AK9R made some good suggestion.
Larsen is a well established manufacturer that has been producing antennas designed for public safety use for a very long time. They have an excellent track record for making quality antennas. They have people on staff that understand RF. You can get spare parts for their antennas if you ever have issues.

I have 30+ year old Larsen antennas that still work like new. A good antenna will easily outlast the car it is mounted on.

As for mounting….
The antenna is going to work as well as its mounting location will let it. Avoid the cheap/easy mounting methods, especially if you are chasing storms. The last thing you need is your magnetic mount antenna getting knocked off the roof. Your best performance/longevity/looks is going to come from doing a permanent NMO mount dead center on the vehicle roof. It'll give you less problems in the long run. It looks a thousand times better than the compromise mounts. It'll also have a proper ground plane under the antenna that will let it work to its full potential.

 

[Bootyhunter]

I've used the Tram 1185 mag mount dual band for years with good results. Use the same antenna for 2m, 70cm, Gmrs, Frs, Murs. It's great!

 

[AK_SAR]

* Comet CA-2X4SR 40" 2m/70cm antenna

Amateur radio monstrosity. Designed for amateur radio operators that want to hack their ham radios to work on frequencies that their radios shouldn't be on. Not a good choice.

There is a subset of people (perhaps small) who are hams, and who also have a legitimate need to operate on Part 90 frequencies. What antenna would you suggest as a better choice?

 

[alcahuete]

There is a subset of people (perhaps small) who are hams, and who also have a legitimate need to operate on Part 90 frequencies. What antenna would you suggest as a better choice?

Most of those people would likely prefer an antenna that performs the best on the Part 90 frequencies, and also covers the ham frequencies. There are plenty of Larsen antennas designed for Part 90, but will also cover the ham/GMRS/etc., bands.

Personally, I use the Larsen NMO150/450/800SF for multi-band stuff, and it works great. Great performance where it's supposed to work, and really good performance everywhere else as well.

 

[mmckenna]

There is a subset of people (perhaps small) who are hams, and who also have a legitimate need to operate on Part 90 frequencies. What antenna would you suggest as a better choice?

A basic 1/4 wave VHF antenna will give a lot of usable bandwidth on VHF. 1/4 wave UHF antennas will supply a TON of useable bandwidth. If you need dual band, use a diplexer and a couple of quarter wave antennas.

I've swept a few of the name brand multiband antennas and most of them will work well across the ham bands as well as the LMR bands.

Using hobby grade antennas, like the Comet, in any sort of life safety application would kind of worry me. Hobby antennas don't belong in this area.

 

[bjewett]

Larsen NMO150450C would cover your frequencies of interest better than the NMO2/70B. The Larsen NMO150/450/800 would also work, but it would have less gain than the NMO150450C.

I would avoid any antenna made for amateur radio. They are tuned for 430-440 MHz and you need 462-468 MHz for GMRS. I would be suspicious of any antenna that claims it has equal gain or radiation pattern over a 30 MHz range on VHF or a 50 MHz range on UHF.

Thanks! This is exactly what I hoped, that you all would know of resources I hadn't heard of. Appreciate it.

 

[AK_SAR]

Personally, I use the Larsen NMO150/450/800SF for multi-band stuff, and it works great. Great performance where it's supposed to work, and really good performance everywhere else as well.

Thanks. I'll probably get one and give it a try.

For the vast majority of SAR related activities, I'm using an issued Motorola HT1250 for thrashing around in the brush on missions. However, I have once in awhile had occasion to use the mobile rig in my van on missions. On the van I currently have the Comet CA-2X4SR, which seems to work OK. However, the vast majority of use of that antenna has been for ham stuff. One of these days I plan to sweep my current set up. (I don't personally have that capability, but I can get access to it, though it's a bit of a hassle so I've not got around to it yet.)

For the record, our group has several licensed frequencies in the public safety band. We also have a signed frequency sharing agreement with the state, which authorizes us to use certain State of Alaska frequencies on missions.

 

[mmckenna]

Thanks. I'll probably get one and give it a try.

prcguy put a bunch of work into comparing various antennas last year. The info he collected/documented will give you a pretty good idea how well the antennas work. It's not just looking at SWR, it was an actual test range looking at received signal strength with calibrated professional equipment.

It's an excellent document, and well worth the time to look at. He did a pretty good job describing it all in this post:

Antenna range testing between multiband mobile antennas

I was going to add more to this package of information like a diagram of the setup, but I may never get to that so here its is as-is. I've been wanting to do an antenna range comparison of multi-band mobile antennas for some time and the recent purchase of a COMPACtenna LMR-1 compelled me to put...

forums.radioreference.com

 

[AK9R]

If you are this serious about getting a decent antenna, skip the Chinese stuff.

Nagoya is a bit of a mystery. A Taiwanese company using a Japanese name on their products. I don't know their products as well as I know Comet and Diamond, both of which have been around as long as, or longer than, I've been a ham. The modern-day, YouTube-influenced, Chinese radio users seem to love Nagoya.

名古屋通信股份有限公司 - Reuex Industrial Co., Ltd.(Nagoya Antenna Taiwan)

Reuex Industrial Co., Ltd.(Nagoya Antenna) is a high quality Antenna Manufacturer in Taiwan, providing Two Way Radio Antenna, Mobile Antenna, Handheld Antenna, DVB-T Antenna and RF Connector with superior quality.

www.nagoya.com.tw

 

[mmckenna]

Nagoya is a bit of a mystery. A Taiwanese company using a Japanese name on their products. I don't know their products as well as I know Comet and Diamond, both of which have been around as long as, or longer than, I've been a ham. The modern-day, YouTube-influenced, Chinese radio users seem to love Nagoya.

I found a Nagoya dual band portable antenna in my dads garage when cleaning out some stuff. It was with his FT-60. It seems to work fine, but the build quality is about what I'd expect from most of the amateur radio oriented products. It is probably 20 years old at least and seems to be OK. I've never used their mobile antennas but looking at them in the past, they appeared to be similar quality as the other hobby brands.

Never saw much reason to buy their stuff as the Larsen/Laird stuff was similar price with better build quality.

None the less, a ham antenna used on these frequencies would be less than ideal. I was going to recommend the NMO-150/450 before I saw your post.

 

[prcguy]

Nagoya is a bit of a mystery. A Taiwanese company using a Japanese name on their products. I don't know their products as well as I know Comet and Diamond, both of which have been around as long as, or longer than, I've been a ham. The modern-day, YouTube-influenced, Chinese radio users seem to love Nagoya.

名古屋通信股份有限公司 - Reuex Industrial Co., Ltd.(Nagoya Antenna Taiwan)

Reuex Industrial Co., Ltd.(Nagoya Antenna) is a high quality Antenna Manufacturer in Taiwan, providing Two Way Radio Antenna, Mobile Antenna, Handheld Antenna, DVB-T Antenna and RF Connector with superior quality.

www.nagoya.com.tw

In my experience most the Nagoya antennas out there are counterfeit. In one group of about fifty 771 series I bought, one was proven to be an actual Nagoya and all the rest were all fake. However VSWR and range testing all the different fakes with the real one showed the performance was all about the same and the overall quality of the fakes were similar to the original.

 

[jeepsandradios]

Thanks. I'll probably get one and give it a try.

For the vast majority of SAR related activities, I'm using an issued Motorola HT1250 for thrashing around in the brush on missions. However, I have once in awhile had occasion to use the mobile rig in my van on missions. On the van I currently have the Comet CA-2X4SR, which seems to work OK. However, the vast majority of use of that antenna has been for ham stuff. One of these days I plan to sweep my current set up. (I don't personally have that capability, but I can get access to it, though it's a bit of a hassle so I've not got around to it yet.)

For the record, our group has several licensed frequencies in the public safety band. We also have a signed frequency sharing agreement with the state, which authorizes us to use certain State of Alaska frequencies on missions.

I run the Larsen on all our SAR vehicles that require dual band/tri band. The MSI All band is also a good performer but don't like the antenna. On all members vehicles with VHF only (SAR and HAM) I just run the VHF quarter wave. It performs best for that application.

 

[krokus]

I tried the CA2x4SR, back in the days before they had the spring option. It worked decently, but damaged the roof my Jeep, when hitting things. (Any low clearance that I didn't have time to fold over the antenna.)

Overall, I would not recommend the antenna, even with the spring.

 

[mmckenna]

Overall, I would not recommend the antenna, even with the spring.

Looking at the cost of the antenna plus the spring option, there are better commercial options that include the spring. I guess companies like Comet rely on amateurs not knowing about the LMR antenna options. I've noticed this amongst the 'overlanding' crowd. They seem to like the ham antennas for their CCR mobiles.

 

[N4KVE]

There is a subset of people (perhaps small) who are hams, and who also have a legitimate need to operate on Part 90 frequencies. What antenna would you suggest as a better choice?

It really comes down to the ratio of ham transmissions vs GMRS transmissions. In my case, when a friend allowed me to use his GMRS repeater, I was transmitting on 446-450 MHz 98% of the time. And 467.700 MHz maybe 2% of the time. So I’ve been using a Larsen dual band ham antenna which has a 1:1 SWR at 447 MHz. Never tested it at 467 because I use it there so rarely. So it depends on which band you use more often.