Emergency vehicle lighting in NJ

[SCPD]

If you listen to NJSP on the scanner, "blue lighter" is spoken as a derrogatory term in most communications i've heard.

Trooper A
"There is a blue-lighter on scene"

Trooper B
"Do you feel safer?"

Hear those kind of comments all the time.

Mostly on B2-3 NORTH and B2-2 SUSSEX

 

[SCPD]

Better one for you, Trooper on the Turnpike refused to shut a lane down while I was working an MVA out on the pike, I called the Dispatcher advised him that we had an unsafe scene and pulled away.

There where no patients to be transported anyway but we emergency responders Fire or EMS shouldn't be taking any crap from the cops or the troopers, Thankfully most of the departments I work with except for one have mostly great guys, it is just there younger morons that haven't learned to leave there ego's at home that we have trouble with.

I seem to recall the Rockaway Twp. incident on Rt. 80. The trooper arrested the fire chief and brought him to Netcong. I believe he was later released ROR, and they ended up "shaking hands" in court.

The trooper told a driver of a fire truck to move it off the highway and the driver refused, and the chief backed up his guy. The trooper even wrote the guy a summons for not having his license on him. It was left back at the firehouse with his clothes since he was in turnout gear.

 

[SCPD]

I would follow this rule of thumb which is currently in place wife my wife, I she instructed NOT to pull over for an unmarked Police Car, She knows the every location of the local police station in every town on the way to work she is to drive directly there unless a mark police car joins to unmarked car to pull her over. MANY cops that I work with tells me she would not be charged with eluting police if she pulls over once a MARKED car pulls her over.

What Scandal said about specialist in the field I 100% respectfully disagree I work with law enforcement every day there are zero specialist out there that went to the academy or his degree or certification in lights and sirens. I think many cops out there focus on many foolish things on the road I am not going to name towns or counties but these traffic cops would pull you over for a tail light out and while on the stop a van load of dope and guns just rode by doing 100 miles per hour.

I thought there was an AG directive that officers on routine patrol using an unmarked car must be in uniform. If the lights we're red or red/blue I would stop, but if I saw plain clothes, I would take off.

 

[SCPD]

I seem to recall the Rockaway Twp. incident on Rt. 80. The trooper arrested the fire chief and brought him to Netcong. I believe he was later released ROR, and they ended up "shaking hands" in court.

The trooper told a driver of a fire truck to move it off the highway and the driver refused, and the chief backed up his guy. The trooper even wrote the guy a summons for not having his license on him. It was left back at the firehouse with his clothes since he was in turnout gear.

http://forums.firehouse.com/archive/index.php/t-85742.html

Here you go!

 

[kenisned]

Better one for you, Trooper on the Turnpike refused to shut a lane down while I was working an MVA out on the pike, I called the Dispatcher advised him that we had an unsafe scene and pulled away.

There where no patients to be transported anyway but we emergency responders Fire or EMS shouldn't be taking any crap from the cops or the troopers, Thankfully most of the departments I work with except for one have mostly great guys, it is just there younger morons that haven't learned to leave there ego's at home that we have trouble with.

This was exactly our plan for when they refused to provide for our safety.

Luckily it never came to that. Although, I did hear rumor that a Morris County Township who has a history with the NJSP recently left the interstate when they had trouble with the troopers.

 

[mondaro]

That's great to hear, We don't want to give the troops a hard time but they have to understand all of us want to go home to our families at the end of the day.

So far besides that one incident I haven't been tested but I wouldn't hesitate to do it especially if we have a safety issue out there.

Tony

 

[SCANdal]

They're out there...

while it is a problem, i do believe that taking away lights from volunteers would be a bad move. there are other ways to control this, but getting rid of them all together would be bad.

313,

Taking courtesy lights away from volunteers to combat the police impersonation problem was never suggested.

What Scandal said about specialist in the field I 100% respectfully disagree I work with law enforcement every day there are zero specialist out there that went to the academy or his degree or certification in lights and sirens. I think many cops out there focus on many foolish things on the road I am not going to name towns or counties but these traffic cops would pull you over for a tail light out and while on the stop a van load of dope and guns just rode by doing 100 miles per hour.

mondaro,

Again your focus is on the lights themselves. While you may not be aware of any specialized units out there among the agencies you work with, there are such units in existance in some area departments. Again, they aren't exclusively focused, with degrees in lights and sirens, on those items alone. Those are merely parts to a larger problem; a problem that, as I mentioned above, not only could effect the average citizen, but those of a lower grade then you and me...I'm talking about the drug dealer who is a "victim" of a staged "raid" by "police" who in fact are just competing dealers looking to make life difficult. My point is this: if a 'blue lighter' is answering an alarm and is stopped by the police - don't be offended.

SCANdal

 

[mondaro]

Scandal,

No offense taken, we are all here to learn. I have red lights and siren in my truck and also have have a state of NJ DMV permit for it, I had the permit for two cycles or 4 years.
I have used my lights and sirens for a grand total of zero times. The reason, first I don't abuse them and only would be used in an extreme emergency plus I would NEVER use them with the wife and kid in the truck, Maybe the Beagle Doggie. While I work directly for a Police Department and under Civil Service I checked with our traffic guy this morning he told me any officer can enforce chapter 39 which is the DMV code in new Jersey that deals with any color light and or siren. I hear what your saying but reading these threads I think there is a bigger problem of abuse which thankfully is not currently in our area.

Have a good weekend.

Tony

 

[SCPD]

i do know SCANdal, that you did not suggest it, but it is one thing i wanted to say, the lights are needed for VFF's to respond quickly to calls. BTW, the whole courtesy light thing is really not a courtesy light. the state did make it a law saying you have to yield for flashing blue light, while it is a courtesy light still, it really is not anymore.

 

[jmp883]

I'm not so concerned about red vs. blue emergency lights, I'm more concerned about the trend of all warning lights on any type of emergency vehicle being LED's.

I do agree that they are much more visible in the daytime but I do believe they are a hazard at night. As an example the police department I dispatch for had an officer struck by a passing motorist one evening while he was on an ambulance call. He was seriously hurt but I'm happy to say that he's back to full duty. Anyway, the driver who struck him said that they were blinded by the warning lights on the police car and ambulance. At that time all our PD/FD/EMS vehicles were equipped with halogen-bulbed lightbars. We now have several PD vehicles with the LED bars and our new ambulance is fully LED'd out. We just ordered a new 100' mid-mount tower for the FD and as I understand things it will also be fully LED. I was driving to work for a midnight shift when I came upon a county deputy on a motor vehicle stop. His vehicle had an LED lightbar and, at night, it was so bright that I never saw the officer until I was almost past the vehicle he had stopped. It took several minutes for my night vision to return to normal, even with looking away from the lightbar.

Officers must wear reflective vests or jackets when on traffic details and road jobs, but the two departments I've dispatched for have no requirement for reflective vests or jackets to be worn when on regular patrol. Even if there was a requirement I'm not sure they'd been seen over the intensity of the LED's.

I know it would probably cost more but it would seem that a good compromise would be to have the forward facing lights be LED's but leave the rear facing lights halogens or some other type of lower-intensity light so that drivers coming up behind the incident aren't blinded, possibly causing more incidents.

Just my thoughts........:wink:

 

[apu]

Officers must wear reflective vests or jackets when on traffic details and road jobs, but the two departments I've dispatched for have no requirement for reflective vests or jackets to be worn when on regular patrol. Even if there was a requirement I'm not sure they'd been seen over the intensity of the LED's.

Old habits die hard but our policy is turn off the non-essential lights and use the yellow arrowstick. Parked on the roadway, even if they don't blind you, the emergency lights are more of a distraction to passersby than they are a help.

DOT marker lights/parking lights will illumniate your vehicle, an arrow stick and some cones will tell traffic where you want them to go and your retro-reflective vest will make you seen. (If I get to choose, hit my ambulance, not me; to facilitate that, see me, not my ambulance.)

Doesn't work as well on lower-profile patrol cars but I'm also a strong believer in chevron striping for fire and EMS vehicles. We have it on our new ambulance and its a tremendous difference in visibility. Parked on the side of the road, you won't know its an ambulance but I don't care -- you know you need to stay away from the obstruction in the roadway and that's all that matters.

Don't have a good nighttime picture to show its effectiveness but a daytime picture can be seen at the bottom of http://www.SpringfieldEMS.org/ambulances.html