Encryption Question

[WVradiohead]

Why use encryption part time? Seems to me if they can encrypt messages why not do it all the time. Yet I read that agency's only encrypt when needed. Going forward willl encryption be used for all messages within an agency that has the capability?

 

[doctordialtone]

Why use encryption part time? Seems to me if they can encrypt messages why not do it all the time.

Some agencies like to demonstrate transparency, but mask some personal information from being broadcast.

The policy varies from agency to agency, so there's no ONE answer to your question.

In our state, the state police have separate talk groups that are full-time encrypted, so they can switch to them when called for.

 

[Whiskey3JMC]

Why use encryption part time?

IMHO this is the way it should be. Keep dispatch & routine traffic "in the clear". Encrypt all sensitive data on designated tac talkgroups which can be utilized on an as-needed basis. Transparency between LEO and the public is crucial especially in today's times when trust, respect & appreciation for law enforcement is at an all-time low. Just my two cents

 

[JethrowJohnson]

Every post or almost every post of the Ohio State Highway Patrol has a dispatch talkgroup and a tactical talkgroup, for example, POST84 and P84TAC. Encryption is optional on POST84 which means that if a trooper needs to say something that needs to be encrypted, then all he/she has to do is switch the radio to secure mode. And all of the radios are programmed to be encrypted automatically on P84TAC, to ensure that no one who isn't supposed to can hear that channel. I like that method the best, but my county's sheriff's office uses full time encryption on their dispatch channel, and my police department was planning to do the same once they upgraded to MARCS, and I wrote a letter asking them to consider doing what OSHP does instead. For some reason, the Monroe County Sheriff's Office has their dispatch consoles encrypted and some of the deputies' radios encrypted, but others in the clear. I'm not sure why it's set up that way, which is what I think you were talking about in your question, and my answer is I'm not really sure.

 

[W9WSS]

In DuPage County, IL *when and if* they go encryption on ALL police talk groups, once the change is made, those talk groups will be “strapped,” meaning once encryption is activated it cannot be turned off unless the individual radio is re-programmed. No “toggle off/on” encryption option.

 

[LarryVavrek]

Makes me take the Sgt Schultz approach. I see nothing. I say nothing. My stuff is encrypted too for me alone.

 

[mmckenna]

Why use encryption part time? Seems to me if they can encrypt messages why not do it all the time. Yet I read that agency's only encrypt when needed. Going forward willl encryption be used for all messages within an agency that has the capability?

Depends on the purpose of encryption.
Some of the drivers are based on securing personal identifying information or criminal justice information.
If that's the core reason, it's required to protect that data at all times. Making encryption optional/selectable creates a situation where someone could forget and accidentally send protected data out unencrypted.
That is one reason why some agencies are going to 100% full time encryption.

Others do part time encryption so there's a choice. While it's common to think its chosen for 'transparency', that is not always the reason. Sometimes it is to make interoperability with other agencies easier.

In other words, ask 10 different departments and you'll get 10 different answers.

 

[radio3353]

IMHO this is the way it should be. Keep dispatch & routine traffic "in the clear". Encrypt all sensitive data on designated tac talkgroups which can be utilized on an as-needed basis. Transparency between LEO and the public is crucial especially in today's times when trust, respect & appreciation for law enforcement is at an all-time low. Just my two cents

You give the users way too much credit to figure that out. "Now, which channel was that where the wacker can't hear me? Is it TAC one or TAC two? Is it red band or blue band? Oh, forget it"

Real life - where I live, LEO had just what you suggest and cops were constantly leaving their radios mis-adjusted. "Dispatch to Car X, you are still on encryption. Switch over." Or, vice-vera. Now, they are full-time encrypted. No more problems.

 

[GlobalNorth]

Full time encryption means no one else can interact with that radio system that is outside that radio system. Getting keys to a system is akin to bring privy to the what target planning is going on at USAF Global Strike.

 

[LarryVavrek]

That makes all these scanners just another expensive dust collector to have laying around the house. Think mine will replace the lava lamp lol when I get all the channels a different color.

 

[iMONITOR]

That makes all these scanners just another expensive dust collector to have laying around the house. Think mine will replace the lava lamp lol when I get all the channels a different color.

There is a lot of other radio communications activity to monitor beside police.

 

[LarryVavrek]

I do listen to Hose draggers and throw and go units. But that gets old. Feds no longer as well as AF1 since all the encryption stuff. Aircraft gets old to as it becomes routine asking for flight level etc.

 

[radio3353]

Full time encryption means no one else can interact with that radio system that is outside that radio system. Getting keys to a system is akin to bring privy to the what target planning is going on at USAF Global Strike.

Not at all true. I live within a few miles of a neighboring county. Both my county and the neighboring county fully encrypt police. For bordering townships, each has a key in their radios to communicate with neighboring townships in each county. Not difficult to achieve at all.

 

[iMONITOR]

That's interesting radio3353. Is it also possible for one radio to have more than one key that the user can switch between them?

 

[marcotor]

That's interesting radio3353. Is it also possible for one radio to have more than one key that the user can switch between them?

If it's programmed it that way, yes. But it's MUCH easier to strap keys to personality, and make it seamless for the end user.
Channel 1 Zone 1 = key 1
Channel 10 Zone 2 = key 4 (interop, or a common key shared across the Counties or State)
and so on..

No interaction required.

 

[KC2CQD]

Why use encryption part time? Seems to me if they can encrypt messages why not do it all the time. Yet I read that agency's only encrypt when needed. Going forward willl encryption be used for all messages within an agency that has the capability?

Many LEOs like their dispatch being open to the people because they get a lot of information from everyday folks with scanners. For example, if their looking for someone / chasing someone, people DO actually call in with locations, vehicle info, etc.

 

[PD47JD]

Interestingly enough the IACP (International Association Chiefs of Police) and the Justice Dept. which publishes many monographs for law enforcement do not "push" encryption. At an FBI dinner for ranking sworn law enforcement personnel at which was a guest attendee, chiefs (CT Chiefs of Police Association members) had two views: If Motorola says we can why not? and the view was "monkey see, monkey do" or "Hey the towns around our town are encrypted, so why not us?" I had a few spirited conversations on the topic (after everyone was well lubricated) and no one had a story wherein a B&E artist or some other miscreant of a criminal bent was arrested with a scanner. The prevailing attitude was "Hey..it's no one's business what we do".

 

[JethrowJohnson]

Many LEOs like their dispatch being open to the people because they get a lot of information from everyday folks with scanners. For example, if their looking for someone / chasing someone, people DO actually call in with locations, vehicle info, etc.

I did this once. They found the guy near the school just up the street.

 

[JethrowJohnson]

Interestingly enough the IACP (International Association Chiefs of Police) and the Justice Dept. which publishes many monographs for law enforcement do not "push" encryption. At an FBI dinner for ranking sworn law enforcement personnel at which was a guest attendee, chiefs (CT Chiefs of Police Association members) had two views: If Motorola says we can why not? and the view was "monkey see, monkey do" or "Hey the towns around our town are encrypted, so why not us?" I had a few spirited conversations on the topic (after everyone was well lubricated) and no one had a story wherein a B&E artist or some other miscreant of a criminal bent was arrested with a scanner. The prevailing attitude was "Hey..it's no one's business what we do".

That's unfortunate.

 

[StoliRaz]

The prevailing attitude was "Hey..it's no one's business what we do".

Ok, I guess they'll have no problem with our tax dollars no longer funding them. Otherwise, yup, where our tax money is going is our business.

Next time a "do you recognize this thief?" tweet is posted by their department I'll encrypt my reply 🤣