Encryption Reasoning

[Drifter]

Although I don't support encryption of radio transmissions for public service agencies, I can understand the reasoning behind law enforcement wanting at least a few encrypted channels.

But I can't come up with any decent reason for anyone to even consider encryption of things like Fire, EMS, city transit systems, and SANITATION ?!?

Maybe I'm just too wrapped up in my own ideas. Anyone have any ideas why this sort of thing might be considered reasonable?

 

[allscan]

I agree with the police, but EMS is a good candidate for encryption only because of the HIPPA(sp) laws to keep patient information private. I've never heard anyones name over Med Tac freqs, but I suppose if you saw them wheel you neighbor into Ambo 412 and then heard that same ambo number reporting patient info to the hospital it would be a leak of info.

But yeah, encrypting sanitation, what a joke.

 

[muddy mudskipper]

i think all police and fire and ems departments should encrypt 100% of the time, implementing special countermeasures like ESK or spread-spectrum frequency hopping to prevent any eavesdropping, even of the City Janitors and Parking Lot Attendants.

furthermore, all radio frequencies and ranges in use by Public Safety Personnel should be considered "Classified" and an exemption to the FOIA laws.

as a final step, all police, fire, and ems personnel should be required to wear a special over-the-mouth microphone that encrypts their actual voice when they talk in public, so no one can understand what they're saying except for other police, fire, and ems personnel.

then, and only then, will our Public Safety Agencies be completely safe from any terroristic threats.

of course, this will all change when we switch to video phones in the year 2050...

= )

 

[DickH]

... all police, fire, and ems personnel should be required to wear a special over-the-mouth microphone that encrypts their actual voice when they talk in public, so no one can understand what they're saying except for other police, fire, and ems personnel. ...

Some sound like that now. They either whisper into the mic or talk so fast you can't understand them.

 

[ofd8001]

My thoughts (I'm a fire chief). I think that radio traffic on Police, Fire and EMS channels ought to be "in the clear", with exceptions. The exceptions are: for police - if radio traffic is such that the bad guys hearing them, and thus thwarting an operation or put an officer's life in danger. For fire, we occasionally have a guy get hurt. I'd rather tell the firefighter's significant other in person, rather than hearing the firefighter's name on the radio. For EMS, patient confidentiality needs to be maintained.

 

[N4DES]

There is no reason for EMS to be encrypted. HIPPA considers it an "iincidental disclosure":

http://www.emergencydispatch.org/JOURNAL/articles/HipAAsu03.html

Myth No. 3: Dispatch centers must convert all communications equipment to digital or institute new privacy technologies so that people with scanners can no longer hear radio dispatches.

Fact: HIPAA does not prohibit dispatch centers from communicating with ambulance services, which is necessary for response and patient treatment, even though everyone in "scannerland" can listen in! These are called "incidental disclosures" under HIPAA, meaning they are legitimate disclosures with unavoidable side-effects, and are permissible under HIPAA.

 

[K5MAR]

I think the various agencies are more worried about "incidental" lawsuits! In our litigious society, this is not a trivial matter. If all the emergency medical service's communications are encrypted, then that is one less area they have to worry about. I know, speaking for myself, in the era before much of the local FD medical went to cellular I was able to glean an astounding amount of information from the routine radio traffic. Information I really had no need to know, but I processed it automatically while listening to the call.

Mark S.

 

[MetalCarnage]

i think all police and fire and ems departments should encrypt 100% of the time, implementing special countermeasures like ESK or spread-spectrum frequency hopping to prevent any eavesdropping, even of the City Janitors and Parking Lot Attendants.

furthermore, all radio frequencies and ranges in use by Public Safety Personnel should be considered "Classified" and an exemption to the FOIA laws.

as a final step, all police, fire, and ems personnel should be required to wear a special over-the-mouth microphone that encrypts their actual voice when they talk in public, so no one can understand what they're saying except for other police, fire, and ems personnel.

then, and only then, will our Public Safety Agencies be completely safe from any terroristic threats.

of course, this will all change when we switch to video phones in the year 2050...

= )

Are you being serious??

 

[N_Jay]

There is no reason for EMS to be encrypted. HIPPA considers it an "iincidental disclosure":

. . . . These are called "incidental disclosures" under HIPAA, meaning they are legitimate disclosures with unavoidable side-effects, and are permissible under HIPAA.

Permissible, but maybe not desired.

 

[N_Jay]

. . . For fire, we occasionally have a guy get hurt. I'd rather tell the firefighter's significant other in person, rather than hearing the firefighter's name on the radio. . . .. . .

Would you rather try to switch to the seldom used encrypted mode mid-emergency (with all the issues that typically surround "occasional" or "special" procedures) or already be in that mode as part of your normal (and well practiced) procedures?

 

[N_Jay]

Just to be clear:

Do I think it all needs to be encrypted; NO

Do I think it should be discussed during system design; YES

Do I think it should be up to the operational planning of the agency; DEFINITELY

 

[N4DES]

Permissible, but maybe not desired.

Oh by all means...if an agency chooses to do so there is nothing stopping them from the regulatory side of the fence.

 

[N4DES]

Amen to that!

Just to be clear:

Do I think it all needs to be encrypted; NO

Do I think it should be discussed during system design; YES

Do I think it should be up to the operational planning of the agency; DEFINITELY

 

[N_Jay]

Oh by all means...if an agency chooses to do so there is nothing stopping them from the regulatory side of the fence.

Yet! :evil:

 

[bassmkenk2508]

i think all police and fire and ems departments should encrypt 100% of the time, implementing special countermeasures like ESK or spread-spectrum frequency hopping to prevent any eavesdropping, even of the City Janitors and Parking Lot Attendants.

furthermore, all radio frequencies and ranges in use by Public Safety Personnel should be considered "Classified" and an exemption to the FOIA laws.

as a final step, all police, fire, and ems personnel should be required to wear a special over-the-mouth microphone that encrypts their actual voice when they talk in public, so no one can understand what they're saying except for other police, fire, and ems personnel.

then, and only then, will our Public Safety Agencies be completely safe from any terroristic threats.

of course, this will all change when we switch to video phones in the year 2050...

= )

What kind of radio scanner hobbyist would WANT police/fire/ems/"who knows what else" to be completely encypted all around???

 

[scnnr]

Poster #8 # 15 methinks Muddy is just being Sarcastic. : ) Although I do see the " Beam me up Scotty type Radio's" coming up in the future. LOL

 

[muddy mudskipper]

Poster #8 # 15 methinks Muddy is just being Sarcastic. : )

oh no, i'm not being sarcastic.

i ESPECIALLY think the City Janitors and Parking Lot Attendants should be encrypted...

that, or confined to FRS radios.

 

[Towpro]

Gotta becareful with them parking lot dudes....never know what they up to.....

 

[fireant]

The real terriorists in the world will still be able to listen even if your encrypted so only thing is keeping others from listening if it ever comes to that hope departments don't go to the public for other needs like equipment and raises as things like encryption only hack the general public off. Guess what I trying to say is don't bite the hand that feeds you.

fireant

 

[N_Jay]

The real terriorists in the world will still be able to listen even if your encrypted . . . .

LOL, Ya think so? :roll: