EOC AUXCOMM gear

[otobmark]

All of the EOC'S in my state are encouraged and even given grants for keeping a hamstation set up. Awhile back WinLink was the cool thing and the emphasis on having a HF station as well as HF/Winlink drop kits was a big deal (Winlink in age of satellite cell phones?). I'm a ham and do still use it but I haven't used "Ham" radio gear in well over a decade for either HF or VHF/UHF and have been completely successful.

In this current age, LMR has multiband, multimode, and FPP. I see no need beyond price for Ham radios in the EOC. All the COMT's will be familiar with the platforms and the ones in the "hamshack" can be repurposed if needed during an event. My home county is rebuilding the AUXCOMM component of their EOC. I and a guy from county radio shop (on his own time) surveyed the facility and found it lacking a grounding system for AUX radio room (and short tower), damaged antennas and hardline as well as unusable radios and support equipment. Known requirements are Winlink, HF voice, VHF/UHF FM with added wrinkle of DMR. My personal prejudice is no chinese radios including Hytera for reason we all here understand. There are no "Ham" DMR radios excluding chinese. Best lmr for DMR seems to be Kenwood, EFJ, Tait and maybe BK. I exclude Motorola due to no FPP, single radio ID and the most suicide provoking cps I've ever used. That said I could get half a dozen used ones donated. On HF I am OK with amateur gear if open banded since inside of EOC is not a harsh environment and I could buy 9 icoms for price of one Codan. First choice is one or two VM8000 radios which can carry PS and amateur loadout. During activation the AUX rooms get PS radios anyway and they could free those up. HF Icom IC7300 (2). Throw in some scanners for monitoring.

Am I thinking straight or are my blind spots catching up with me? Is there a better solution and if it includes Ham gear then what ham gear? Cellphone direct to satellite is going to make HF even more obsolete (I like HF but seriously).

This may be a fools errand given my county is not disaster prone and if program continues to rely heavily on volunteers I think it will fail when current people age out. Coastal communities are more motivated and have active volunteers.

 

[mmckenna]

Couple of things I'd add for discussion:

Proper grounding/installation is important. The EOC and the rest of the communications equipment needs to be protected. I'd suggest installing new suitable coax with lightning protectors, done to NEC, correct grounding buss, etc. Make sure any/all antenna installation is supervised by EOC staff (you?) or professionally installed. That should be mandated, not suggested. Issue I saw locally was antennas guyed with cloths line, tied off to other antenna supports, etc.

I think you will fight a losing battle by not letting them have VFO radios in their space. I agree, a good VM8000 would solve a lot of issues, but you'll likely hear a lot of complaints, and more than likely, you'll see that they'll replace with their own radios.

No matter what you do, hams are going to arrive with their own radios, own antennas, etc. They'll want to use what they are comfortable with, what they own (to prove they can), etc. You might have to put your foot down if you want to enforce this, but you're going to have some challengers.

We've only recently added amateur to our EOC, but they are running out of their own site. We just provided them with one of our radios so we can talk directly with them as needed. That way, we didn't need to modify the EOC and add more antennas to the limited space we have.

 

[otobmark]

I think you will fight a losing battle by not letting them have VFO radios in their space. I agree, a good VM8000 would solve a lot of issues, but you'll likely hear a lot of complaints, and more than likely, you'll see that they'll replace with their own radios.

You’re right, not that I like it . While there are a few AUXC credentialed who among other things use and do programming of PS radios, the future will probably be less credentialed due to the extreme time and money commitment of getting certified. They do not buy PS radios even though many are cheap used. I have seen Alinco radios cropping up at other EOC’s (No DMR). The before mentioned IC-7300 is showing up also probably due to built in soundcard.

Proper grounding/installation is important.

Radio shop for county very much to my surprise agreed quickly to grounding system (3 12’ rods for 50’ tower and a buss bar inside for polyphasers etc. I was told work was complete a few days ago.

On the 200’ antenna, AUXCOMM has tentatively been allocated 2 vhf and 2 uhf antennas when planned strip and refurbish of tower happens. The automatic thought is repeaters but frequency agile transceiver or two would probably be more useful (base stations). That would mean remotely controlled radios in tower house 300’ or so from where consoles would be (not my area of expertise). Currently they have 1 uhf and 1 vhf antenna of unknown condition on 200’ tower and I was recently told they plan a VTAC repeater for the vhf one. I don’t know the logic of that because vhf is not used much and everyone has 700/800 and only forestry has some legacy vhf . I’d go with 7tac repeaters for maximum interop. The location of the tower is OK but far from exceptional. The feds are universally multiband now whereas before they were vhf heavy. My last experience was Helene in NC. Besides an ad-hoc net that sprang up on an extremely wide coverage and hardened repeater serving the civilian volunteer efforts of supplies and equipment, I would rate the amateur radio component a fail. Most repeaters lost power immediately or when backup power expired and downed trees made resupply impossible for extended periods of time. There was no simplex strategy (simplex nets) or coordination and as a group amateurs truly failed with a few exceptions. I don’t think there is a cohesive thought out plan for amateur radio or how to interface it to Emergency Management constructively. During Helene I did HF checkins on State EOC frequencies (that never carried information) only because I was only one there initially with HF gear (Barrett). I was sole connection to Mitchell Co on HF of all things but only for about 1/2 day until a starlink modem and generator arrived. All my other activities were on Statewide TRS and standby airband. Maybe we should skip the Auxcomm room and put in a stable or telegraph office…...
I’m also aging out and wanted to leave a useable AUX station behind but maybe that is only vanity. With skylink and satellite direct for most citizens cellphones I no longer see amateur radio as make or break in future disasters short of “Mad Max” scenario. They could be if organized along the lines of Skywarn giving qualified intel of situation on the ground. There is a plan for a Ham network of repeaters partially sponsored by the state (towers, microwave backbone) but no plan as to how they will be used (like FL uhf fm statewide rf linked net). My thought of LMR gear was ability to repurpose if needed and it could be serviced by COMT’s.

 

[mmckenna]

Hardening the ham installation is a good plan. Nice they jumped in on that.

I've thought about putting some of our hams on duty to participate in the SHARES/statewide hf drills, but I'd need to assign them one of my HF radios. I'd need to figure out a way to manage that carefully.

I'm 4-5 years out from retirement and trying to think ahead, also.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

I see both sides to this and a lot of it is going to depend on where the demarcation point is drawn. AHJ covers to this point in the EOC and then the rest is on AUXC. Now if the AHJ is providing radios, they get to pick what to provide while meeting the needs of the AUXC group. If that means it's easier to let the radio shop maintain stuff they already have a maintenance history of...might make more sense just to do that.

Professional opinion, the AUXC group that is working in the EOC should have a set ICS-217A of which all the resources listed should be present in EOC AUXC radios. There isn't a need to reprogram on the fly because the EOC is infrastructure...the equipment stays there and is permanently installed. Now I would also say, we've been teaching AUXCs how to navigate regional standard codeplugs on the PS side so they can find the channels in fixed infrastructure radios that are dual programmed as it can often be easier to have a radio that can be tested and autotuned with the rest when the radio shop preforms PM maintenance on the PS radios in the EOC.

As to that VTAC repeater question...I'd say run it even if your area is running 700/800 as you never know when you are going get response from an area where they are VHF and no one has the courtesy to option multiband radios (happens here in Texas a lot, and I stand on my soap box about it a lot).

 

[mmckenna]

I see both sides to this and a lot of it is going to depend on where the demarcation point is drawn.

Excellent description. A well established demarc is the way to do this.
EOC/County would handle the tower. Last thing you want is hams doing tower work unless they are fully trained/certified/insured to be on the tower.
All attachments, antennas, coax, connectors, grounding, etc. should be engineered, approved and installed by the county or an approved installer.

I'd put a ground buss on the wall in the AUX area with the Heliax terminated there. Hams can connect as needed, but I would discourage letting them run their own cable in the building. It also would enforce proper grounding, lightning protection, etc.

Sounds like they have a good setup with a 200' tower and pre-installed antennas all properly engineered. I've seen a few EOC's where the hams have installed their own antennas and it wasn't up to any sort of commercial/public safety standard. Not a place for bungee cords or 550 cord.

...as it can often be easier to have a radio that can be tested and autotuned with the rest when the radio shop preforms PM maintenance on the PS radios in the EOC.

Good idea. I'd be all for that. A properly set up multiband radio that is maintained makes a lot of sense. It also would make it easier to have everything appropriate in the radio, including the Part 90 channels so that equipment can be used for either use without concern for type acceptance, etc.

Our EOC manager had me set up a radio on our trunked system for the ham group. It has all the appropriate talk groups in it, and is locked so no changes can be made, and nothing can be read from the radio.

As to that VTAC repeater question...I'd say run it even if your area is running 700/800 as you never know when you are going get response from an area where they are VHF and no one has the courtesy to option multiband radios (happens here in Texas a lot, and I stand on my soap box about it a lot).

I agree, but depending on location. Around me, VHF is pretty much the de facto standard for public safety. We've got some appropriate VTAC, VFire and state interop channels in our PSAP that allows pretty much any public safety agency to talk to anyone else.
With multiband radios becoming more and more common, it's kind of becoming a moot point, but maybe looking at what the VFD's and smaller agencies use would make sense.

Ideally, VTAC, UTAC and 8TAC would be used since that would cover everyone smart enough to have the NIFOG channels programmed in to their radios. We're spinning up a countywide system and part of the package includes multiband radios at every tower site loaded with all of them, and controllable by the dispatchers. That way they can bring up any of the interop channels (as well as others) at any of the tower sites and link as needed.

 

[otobmark]

All this helps. I feel like I’m at the adults table here. I don’t want to be the guy who invents imaginary problems. At core I don’t like building fire extinguishers: things you may need but probably not— they just hang on the wall. To my mind I like things that matter and get exercise. More war room less panic room. I think I was imagining the AUX room as a flexible work station multi mission capable.
I probably should have a real discussion with EM leadership to refine mission to a plan instead of a bunch of sticky notes. I hope I can find a “best practices” Auxcomm person who is involved in a mature functioning partnership with PS to help our county plan for volunteerism or to eliminate it if it makes no sense for us. On the volunteer side I believe they need to be a value add in “peace time” such as maintaining cashe radios and other routine jobs. We demonstrated that the volunteers could shoot radios with updated/corrected codeplugs (APX) as well as keep inventories and records. In Helene the effective volunteers didn’t wait to be called on (they aren’t really on PS radar) but rather found jobs needing to be done and did them (with permission when appropriate). Being pro-active without being in the way is a skill not everyone has. Running errands, finding people, fabricating, documenting, repairs (jury rigging often) and so on. I don’t know about the new generation but old hams were practically bush pilots when it came to improvised solutions with materials at hand. I have made a lot of fun of CA in the past, but I thinks they are ahead in this category.

 

[mmckenna]

All this helps. I feel like I’m at the adults table here. I don’t want to be the guy who invents imaginary problems. At core I don’t like building fire extinguishers: things you may need but probably not— they just hang on the wall. To my mind I like things that matter and get exercise. More war room less panic room. I think I was imagining the AUX room as a flexible work station multi mission capable.

I think you are spot on.

No emergency manager would rely on grabbing some random person off the street and forcing them into an EOC role. That requires training, practice, clearly established rules, and some level of background check. That should absolutely carry over onto the AUX Comm side.

I think most knowledgeable hams will understand the need for that.

I probably should have a real discussion with EM leadership to refine mission to a plan instead of a bunch of sticky notes. I hope I can find a “best practices” Auxcomm person who is involved in a mature functioning partnership with PS to help our county plan for volunteerism

I bet there is someone currently in the public safety sector in your area that has a ham ticket and would be willing to fill that role. Might be good for someone who recently retired to fill in. They'll understand what all the roles are, the requirements for training, background checks, character, maturity, etc.

or to eliminate it if it makes no sense for us.

Yeah. If the EM doesn't have the means to properly support AUX Comm in the EOC, then it might be better to eliminate it, or at least redefine it where they are not inside the EOC, but remote and available as needed. That puts less stress on a few ham volunteers, manages expectations, and removes a level of people.

On the volunteer side I believe they need to be a value add in “peace time” such as maintaining cashe radios and other routine jobs. We demonstrated that the volunteers could shoot radios with updated/corrected codeplugs (APX) as well as keep inventories and records. In Helene the effective volunteers didn’t wait to be called on (they aren’t really on PS radar) but rather found jobs needing to be done and did them (with permission when appropriate). Being pro-active without being in the way is a skill not everyone has. Running errands, finding people, fabricating, documenting, repairs (jury rigging often) and so on. I don’t know about the new generation but old hams were practically bush pilots when it came to improvised solutions with materials at hand. I have made a lot of fun of CA in the past, but I thinks they are ahead in this category.

That's where I would recommend treading very carefully.
If you have some good, disciplined and reliable hams that can pass the background checks, then it's something to consider.
Problem I have is that our codeplugs have a lot of information in them that is provided to us by other agencies, and those MOU's have some very clear requirements. FCC makes this clear in the Part 90 rules about who has access to the radio programming, access to other systems, etc.
We've seen on this site, and others, where someone will get ahold of a public safety radio and pull the files out and doing inappropriate things with them. Most know better than to do that, but making sure that is a documented rule to having access to those files would be important. Nothing is really a binding policy unless it is clearly documented and agreed upon by all parties.

If you use any encryption, then there's another level with the PII/CJI rules where appropriate background checks would be mandated and maintained. If you have people that you can trust that can meet those requirements, then it's a good option, but I'm extremely careful about who has access to our programming info, and I'd never give anyone access to encryption keys without documented approval from our chief.

Maintaining cache radios is a good role they could fill. Making sure radios get tested, batteries charged/maintained, etc. is all important and often overlooked.

 

[speedway_navigator]

short of “Mad Max” scenario

I agree, having the ability to talk from one side of the county to the other in a major disaster might not mean fecal matter if no one on the other side can help due to no road access or the disaster is affecting them too.
Is there a Q code for 'sorry about your luck'?

Like P25 master said a 217 should be followed, no need to be knob twiddling in an emergency. ICS chain of command is hard to follow with a bunch of users moving around the spectrum when an IC expects them to on their assigned channel.

Things have changed since this magazine cover from 1926 highlighted
Amateurs give emergency service for railroads when wires are down

 

[Project25_MASTR]

I would highly recommend implementing Radio Management or it's alternative offerings from other vendors when it comes to updating cache radios and only letting volunteers use a programming terminal in "Kiosk" mode (all they do is hook up radio to computer). Limits the number of skilled technical people required on an incident in addition to allowing a common template between radios.

 

[otobmark]

Yeah. If the EM doesn't have the means to properly support AUX Comm in the EOC, then it might be better to eliminate it, or at least redefine it where they are not inside the EOC, but remote and available as needed. That puts less stress on a few ham volunteers, manages expectations, and removes a level of people.

Just had a zoom meeting with a few on the ham side. I may just be pissed but I am also coming to the opinion that hams can do far more outside the EOC than in it but they need to plan and organize. They probably should have a path to EM through selected people for exchange of info between EM and Ham and by extension the general public. Our EOC pretends to be onboard but they are not and I don't totally blame them given lack of very clear mission and procedures. There may be a case for HF link between regional centers (we have 4) similar to what the Civil Air Patrol has (ALE) but beyond that I'm finding HF to be a heavy footprint (antenna systems) diminishing return proposal, especially for all 100 counties. I will probably get my ham license revoked for saying this.

 

[speedway_navigator]

Maybe just 1 ham LNO in the EOC and they form their own net/nets outside of the EOC so they can do what they feel works best.

 

[mmckenna]

Just had a zoom meeting with a few on the ham side. I may just be pissed but I am also coming to the opinion that hams can do far more outside the EOC than in it but they need to plan and organize.

Getting them outside the EOC can have a lot of benefits.
It puts that resource completely separate from everything else. Different power, different antenna support, etc.
It gets unnecessary people out of the EOC. Less noise, less fuss, less supervision, not having to deal with security/background checks.

Plus, a well organized (hard to find) group of hams will have their own stations already set up. No need to recreate all that in the EOC.

They probably should have a path to EM through selected people for exchange of info between EM and Ham and by extension the general public.

Yes. That should fit into existing models.

Our EOC pretends to be onboard but they are not and I don't totally blame them given lack of very clear mission and procedures.

I get it, and I agree. Like I've mentioned earlier, there are a lot of challenges to having them inside the EOC.
Some will say it's because the EM doesn't understand all that ham radio can do. But what I've seen is that most EOC's in a true emergency are busy places with a lot going on. Having a couple of extra people involved isn't always a useful thing, especially if you can remote them.

There may be a case for HF link between regional centers (we have 4) similar to what the Civil Air Patrol has (ALE) but beyond that I'm finding HF to be a heavy footprint (antenna systems) diminishing return proposal, especially for all 100 counties. I will probably get my ham license revoked for saying this.

We have that here. The state has a really good HF network with ALE. Law enforcement, fire, EOC's, NGO's, utilities and others are all on the system and do frequent exercises. It's a useful backup to have that requires zero infrastructure.
Yeah, the antenna systems are big. It's limited in what it can do.

On the flip side, dang near everyone has either a satellite phone, a satellite radio terminal, or a Starlink setup. There are so many layers of backup/redundancy that it is kind of hard to take down absolutely everything as long as you have people to set up and run these systems.
28 years here, and there's been some significant disasters, and not once have I ever needed to call in hams. But it's nice to know they are there and can take over some parts of the communications if needed. I think the "Auxiliary" part of Aux Comm is key. They can be a back up. They can take on some of the traffic handling. They can jump in a fill different roles if needed. But the days of amateur radio being the only resource that can fill those roles is gone.

 

[kayn1n32008]

All of the EOC'S in my state are encouraged and even given grants for keeping a hamstation set up. Awhile back WinLink was the cool thing and the emphasis on having a HF station as well as HF/Winlink drop kits was a big deal (Winlink in age of satellite cell phones?). I'm a ham and do still use it but I haven't used "Ham" radio gear in well over a decade for either HF or VHF/UHF and have been completely successful.

In this current age, LMR has multiband, multimode, and FPP. I see no need beyond price for Ham radios in the EOC. All the COMT's will be familiar with the platforms and the ones in the "hamshack" can be repurposed if needed during an event. My home county is rebuilding the AUXCOMM component of their EOC. I and a guy from county radio shop (on his own time) surveyed the facility and found it lacking a grounding system for AUX radio room (and short tower), damaged antennas and hardline as well as unusable radios and support equipment. Known requirements are Winlink, HF voice, VHF/UHF FM with added wrinkle of DMR. My personal prejudice is no chinese radios including Hytera for reason we all here understand. There are no "Ham" DMR radios excluding chinese. Best lmr for DMR seems to be Kenwood, EFJ, Tait and maybe BK. I exclude Motorola due to no FPP, single radio ID and the most suicide provoking cps I've ever used. That said I could get half a dozen used ones donated. On HF I am OK with amateur gear if open banded since inside of EOC is not a harsh environment and I could buy 9 icoms for price of one Codan. First choice is one or two VM8000 radios which can carry PS and amateur loadout. During activation the AUX rooms get PS radios anyway and they could free those up. HF Icom IC7300 (2). Throw in some scanners for monitoring.

I love the idea of using LMR gear in a ham AUXCOM station.

One big reason is it prevents fiddlers from diddling the radios and making changes.

Really, you only need the repeaters you can access from the EOC, and simplex.

I can not think of a single reason you need to have a VFO in a AUXCOM station. Programming should be updated as repeaters come and go. Simplex can be chanelized. Modern LMR radios from Kenwood, Tait and Motorola can hold hundreds upon hundreds of channels. Kenwood and Tait make multimode radios that will do DMR and P25. Kenwood and Tait would be my go to for VHF/UHF gear. Icom seems to be making some really decent HF gear these days. Even their commercial HF stuff looks pretty decent. Let's be real, it's going to be data, or voice. So a channelized HF rig might not be a bad option either. Especially for winlink

It may be worth using separate radios for each mode. One DMR, one P25, one analogue. If you use APRS, have a dedicated APRS radio and what ever display of choice. Same for VHF and HF winlink. Keep a dedicated laptop and programming cables in the EOC loaded with what ever software you need to program the radios. And for God sake, use modern radios. No need for Maxtracs, GM300's, TK706's, MCS2000's or other ancient radios. Buy stuff you can use modern windows software on 64 bit windows

Asides for HF winlink, I'd be inclined to use LMR radios for APRS and VHF Winlink, simply because ham gear has notoriously poor front ends.

I would NOT mix ham and LMR in the same radio. Ever. They should be separate and kept that way. I would also avoid FPP. There should be no need for it in an EOC. If your adding stuff on the fly, you have failed to be prepared. Especially if you are practicing regularly.

A couple sayings that has stayed in my mind from fire fighting:

'Train like you fight, fight like you train'

'We all come home safe'

Am I thinking straight or are my blind spots catching up with me? Is there a better solution and if it includes Ham gear then what ham gear? Cellphone direct to satellite is going to make HF even more obsolete (I like HF but seriously).

This may be a fools errand given my county is not disaster prone and if program continues to rely heavily on volunteers I think it will fail when current people age out. Coastal communities are more motivated and have active volunteers.

I hate to say it, but keep a separate Starlink subscription for the ham station. It will connect you to the outside world when your local internet fails.

 

[speedway_navigator]

A SAR buddy said he heard Starlink speeds dropped to what was called DSL levels after a bunch of them were handed out after the fires in LA last January. Not sure if D2D / direct to device speeds to phones are similar to terminals.

 

[mmckenna]

A SAR buddy said he heard Starlink speeds dropped to what was called DSL levels after a bunch of them were handed out after the fires in LA last January. Not sure if D2D / direct to device speeds to phones are similar to terminals.

There's so many starlink users out there, I doubt this was a capacity thing. We've seen that you-know-who likes to randomly throttle things he doesn't approve of.
A good reason to not rely on Starlink alone.

 

[otobmark]

I’m having mood swings like a pregnant woman but I’m thinking that the ham community needs to up it’s game and that it is the real failure point not PS side of interop. Amateur radio needs to move into fighting the next war and develop and implement procedures for disaster response including their own infrastructure failure work arounds (Loss of power, repeaters, key personnel) as well as use conventional methods when available (cellphones, starlink, vehicles) and have a way to alert members (not easy) and assign tasks and become trained observers (Skywarn model). At that point create a liaison into PS for information exchange. PS should train a few paid employees on dealing with amateurs or even volunteers in general and not depend on a ham or three inside the EOC. In my county we have PS conventional repeaters that can be one of the paths between amateur and EOC with simple MOU. Qualified hams who are at key command positions can have PS radios and WebEOC logins as well. I’m going sour on inside EOC because of no easy access during non event times and the clash of cultures. The EOC will never feel like home to volunteers who do not go there on a frequent basis and are viewed as outsiders, which they are. I’m recklessly spitballing at this point so forgive me later when I sober up.

 

[mmckenna]

I’m having mood swings like a pregnant woman but I’m thinking that the ham community needs to up it’s game and that it is the real failure point not PS side of interop. Amateur radio needs to move into fighting the next war and develop and implement procedures for disaster response including their own infrastructure failure work arounds (Loss of power, repeaters, key personnel) as well as use conventional methods when available (cellphones, starlink, vehicles) and have a way to alert members (not easy) and assign tasks and become trained observers (Skywarn model).

I hear you.
I'm not anti-ham. I'm a ham myself, as are many in the public safety communications field.
I've seen quite a few ham repeaters, and I haven't run across one that was on the same level of any of the public safety systems I've been around. I'd not put a lot of reliance on them. I know there are some ham systems out there that are built to commercial specs, like @kayn1n32008 systems. But those are pretty few and far between. Rather than having lots of repeaters in urban areas, I'd love to see more hams pool resources and just build one or two really reliable, high spec systems.

I've long said that amateur radio needs to reinvent itself. We (remember, I'm a ham) need to get out of the 1960's attitude of having resources as skill that no others do. That is just not accurate anymore. The need for trained radio operators is dropping off as technology expands. The need for single voice path or very low speed data isn't high on the list.
Amateur radio is sitting on a lot of very underutilized spectrum. Hams need to develop LTE based or similar systems that can haul a lot of data, and have the skills to toss these systems up quickly. The rules need to be changed to allow the general public to use such systems in an emergency. Making it so the general public can get text messages, phone calls or even some amount of internet service out of disaster areas easily would be beneficial and I think something hams could easily do. Maybe it doesn't require amateur radio spectrum at all, maybe just a few guys with StarLink and some WiFi access points that can all be run off alternate power sources would fill the need.

Getting stuck on having a 2 meter repeater or the ability to get a call out on 20 meters isn't as impressive as it once was. Time to step up the game.

I'd love to see amateurs do this.

At that point create a liaison into PS for information exchange. PS should train a few paid employees on dealing with amateurs or even volunteers in general and not depend on a ham or three inside the EOC.

Or, a few PS users that had their ham licenses. Or, have them setup in a nearby shelter.

In my county we have PS conventional repeaters that can be one of the paths between amateur and EOC with simple MOU. Qualified hams who are at key command positions can have PS radios and WebEOC logins as well.

I agree. We did that with our EOC and the ham club. A trunked radio we own and control, loaned to them to sit in the club shack. A limited number of talk groups on it and some clear instructions on when and how it gets used.

I’m going sour on inside EOC because of no easy access during non event times and the clash of cultures. The EOC will never feel like home to volunteers who do not go there on a frequent basis and are viewed as outsiders, which they are. I’m recklessly spitballing at this point so forgive me later when I sober up.

That's the challenge I see. There is a big difference between public safety communications and amateur radio. The culture tends to be different. It's not the same.

But I do think there's some opportunities for hams to fill some roles, if it's done carefully. Finding volunteers that are willing to put in the time and keep their skills up on the EOC side is hard. A lot of CERT teams manage to do it, and maybe that's where you need to look. Maybe having hams in the EOC isn't the answer. Put them under CERT, they tend to be better at handling the volunteer side, doing training, exercises, etc. Then draw on them when needed. No need to reinvent the wheel if it's already been done.

 

[tweiss3]

Here is my oddball opinion from outside looking in as a ham, and it might surprise you. There is no reason to have vfo or even FPP capability in the EOC, none. If there isn't a set plan that can be programmed into a radio, there isn't any way the EOC will be of any benefit to the ham community. Sure, repeaters come and go, especially in a power failure, but that's why the list of repeaters usually includes everything in range. Just maintain the the programming as best as you can when one goes permanently off air, or when one a new one comes back online. Since every other ham has VFO, they can use it to meet the programmed plan, rather than the EOC programming on the fly to meet the whim of the ham group.

The only thing I'd add is having two or more V/U stations for relay of information between the chosen simplex and primary repeater channel. That would be the only benefit to a ham radio in place, listening to one bank and relaying information to the other bank, but I don't think that justifies having ham equipment in place. I think you are on the right track with VM8000 stations. Same goes for HF, channelized. Anything more than change to channel 2 to sent a report out will confuse some volunteers, KISS.

Again, I haven't completed all the ICS FEMA classes, but I have paid attention to my counties written plan, even if it's outdated.

If it's not in a written plan, it's not a valid plan, and cannot be anticipated. I don't care what anyone else says, but ask 3 people 3 years in a row, and you will get 15 different answers, that's impossible to participate or plan for.

 

[ecps92]

A SAR buddy said he heard Starlink speeds dropped to what was called DSL levels after a bunch of them were handed out after the fires in LA last January. Not sure if D2D / direct to device speeds to phones are similar to terminals.

sounds like the same issue many responders had during major events with BGAN's - which the media were also using
150 people all trying to aim for the same birds at the same time.

An event I was at (training) back with the a Trane (M4?) we had to connect and send a fax, everyone aimed for the same East Coast US Bird and got slow baud rates, me... I aimed for the West Coast of Africa instead.

While writing, it reminded me of the Blizzard of 78 here in Massachusetts, where the Governor said, No Need to keep picking up your phones to see if you still have dial tone (couple of million folks then, ran for their phones)