External Tuner

[AK9R]

Bear in mind that LDG changed the firmware on their tuners sometime last year. The AT-series of tuners no longer work as well with Icom radios as the older tuners. I have a couple LDG AT-200Pro II tuners and an AT-1000Pro II tuner all with the older firmware. They both work great. You can set an SWR threshold--if the SWR is below the threshold, the tuner stops trying to find a solution. The lowest threshold setting is 1.7:1.

 

[jazzboypro]

Did not know about the firmware change. One of the reviewer claims that hooking the tuner to the 7610 using the ICOM cable did nothing apart from powering the tuner, maybe it as something to do with this new firmware. I must say I have a hard time trying to decide which tuner to buy. For now the internal tuner of the 7610 does the job very well with the antenna I have but I don’t know if it is as robust as an external tuner. I would hate to send the radio to a repair shop to have the tuner fixed as opposed to send an external tuner to be fixed.

 

[AK9R]

If you are running 100 watts (i.e. no external power amplifier), I'd look for an older LDG AT-200ProII. Granted, buying a used tuner may lead to disappointment if the tuner has been abused. Why the 200? It will handle 100 watts using digital modes while the AT-100ProII is only rated for 30 watts using digital modes.

The manual available on their website, which has thankfully returned, states: "The AT-200ProII is designed to interface directly with many popular ICOM and Yaesu transceivers, enabling one button tuning. In the case of ICOM radios, the optional interface cable also powers the tuner." However, I've seen more than one report that they've removed the Icom interface from their firmware. In a recent thread in the ldgelectronics groups.io group about the AT-1000ProII, one person said he recently bought one and the tuner works fine with his IC-7610, but two people say LDG removed Icom interface from the "high power" tuners for "safety reasons". Maybe there's a difference between the AT-100/200 and the AT-600/1000.

You could, I suppose, try to contact LDG and get the answer from the source rather than anecdotal reports on the Internet. Remember what Abe Lincoln said "Don't believe everything you read on the internet.”

 

[kg4ehv]

I have an Palstar at2k and love it.

 

[jazzboypro]

If you are running 100 watts (i.e. no external power amplifier), I'd look for an older LDG AT-200ProII. Granted, buying a used tuner may lead to disappointment if the tuner has been abused. Why the 200? It will handle 100 watts using digital modes while the AT-100ProII is only rated for 30 watts using digital modes.

The manual available on their website, which has thankfully returned, states: "The AT-200ProII is designed to interface directly with many popular ICOM and Yaesu transceivers, enabling one button tuning. In the case of ICOM radios, the optional interface cable also powers the tuner." However, I've seen more than one report that they've removed the Icom interface from their firmware. In a recent thread in the ldgelectronics groups.io group about the AT-1000ProII, one person said he recently bought one and the tuner works fine with his IC-7610, but two people say LDG removed Icom interface from the "high power" tuners for "safety reasons". Maybe there's a difference between the AT-100/200 and the AT-600/1000.

You could, I suppose, try to contact LDG and get the answer from the source rather than anecdotal reports on the Internet. Remember what Abe Lincoln said "Don't believe everything you read on the internet.”

You are correct, i am currently running 100W max (more around 25-50 in practice) but a may purchase an amp eventually so that's why i was looking at the AT-1000PROII or the palstar AT2KD.

I went and check the manual for the AT-1000PROII and here's what it says about Icom radios

"TUNING Basic Tuning Operation A tuning cycle on the AT-1000ProII is initiated from either the Tune button on the front of the AT-1000ProII, an over-SWR condition when in fully automatic tuning mode, or from pressing the TUNER/CALL button on the front of an ICOM radio connected using the ICOM interface cable. Two types of tuning cycles are available."

"If you are using the included ICOM or optional Yaesu interface cable, your radio will automatically reduce power, switch to CW mode, and transmit for as long as is needed to complete the tuning cycle, and then will return to the previous operating mode and power level when done. If you are not using the included ICOM or optional Yaesu radio interface cable, you will need to key the radio manually in AM, SSB, or CW mode. Note that if your radio does not incorporate an SWR rollback circuit3, you will first need to reduce power to 25 watts or less. In no case should you transmit more than 150 watts during tuning. If the memory tune is not successful, the AT-1000ProII falls through to full tuning cycle. At the end of a tuning cycle, the LEDs cycle inwards to indicate a successful tune. You may then activate the amplifier, and begin transmitting. If using the AT-1000ProII with an ICOM transceiver connected with the ICOM interface cable, pressing the TUNER/CALL button on the transceiver initiates a memory tuning cycle. Again, bypass the amplifier while tuning. The AT-1000ProII will not tune if the transmit power is over 150 watts, or if the transmit power exceeds 100 watts during high SWR conditions, in order to protect the switching relays."

"If an ICOM radio and interface cable is used, the AT-1000ProII may also be bypassed by pressing the TUNER/CALL button momentarily. On some models of ICOM radios, changing bands will also automatically bypass the tuner. "

I will send them an e-mail to confirm this because i don't how old the manual is but at the top of the first page it says "MANUAL REV A) so i suspect it might have not been updated.

 

[AK9R]

Interesting point about the manual version. The AT-200ProII manual I was looking at was Rev B.

 

[jazzboypro]

Interesting point about the manual version. The AT-200ProII manual I was looking at was Rev B.

I will report back on this when/if they get back to me

 

[alcahuete]

I personally use the MFJ-998. Yep...it's MFJ, but they actually did a really good job on this one, and you can find them every now and then on the used market at a pretty decent price. I don't use it often, as the majority of my antennas are resonant, but it will tune darn near anything, and I have put about 1700W through it, give or take, until the protection kicked in. It will be happy with 1500W all day long.

 

[jazzboypro]

I personally use the MFJ-998. Yep...it's MFJ, but they actually did a really good job on this one, and you can find them every now and then on the used market at a pretty decent price. I don't use it often, as the majority of my antennas are resonant, but it will tune darn near anything, and I have put about 1700W through it, give or take, until the protection kicked in. It will be happy with 1500W all day long.

Many years ago i had an MFJ 949E that i tried to use with a TS2000 and it never worked too well and the meter eventually fell inside the enclosure. This was the end for me with MFJ. Buying used stuff is not really my cup of tea unless i know the seller very well. Definitely would not buy a used MFJ product under no circumstances lol.

I'm still waiting for an answer from LDG, hopefully they will get back to me by the end of next week. So far Palstar was much faster at getting back to me.

 

[AB4BF]

My adventure with my brother in law's LDG 100 Pro 3 started when he called me and told me that his tuner wouldn't tune quickly on, IIRC, 15 or 17 meters on some net he was interested in. He had just bought the FT-991 and tuner from a friend of ours. First I told him to remove all power and cables for a day to see what happens. Same thing.
I got down to his house the next day and looked at the tuner for obvious things like bad cables or low voltage on the PS, etc. All good. I said to him I've got to go inside and look around to see if we got loose connections or cold soldered joints. It looked to me the unit had never been opened.
I pulled the top off and it looked like it had a Tunguska event on all of the components that in my opinion should have been standing up, even some were bent over touching the metal side of the unit but thankfully no shorts. It really looked like someone had taken their hand and pushed every standing component over.
I took my magnifying glass and carefully looked at the whole CB and found nothing broke. I started carefully bending the components back up and especially those that were leaning against the metal sides. Checked both sides for obvious cold soldered joints and found none. I got my Bil to check, too, he has better eyes than me.
We put it all back together and hooked it up. Got the 991 warmed up and he tried transmitting on 15. Where it had been taking almost 5 minutes to tune (it has that blinking green light) this time it took 3 seconds to find a tuning solution on his net frequency.
He looked at me and asked what did you do? I said you saw what I did - just straightened all the components back up.
He is still using it and its still working great.

 

[jazzboypro]

My adventure with my brother in law's LDG 100 Pro 3 started when he called me and told me that his tuner wouldn't tune quickly on, IIRC, 15 or 17 meters on some net he was interested in. He had just bought the FT-991 and tuner from a friend of ours. First I told him to remove all power and cables for a day to see what happens. Same thing.
I got down to his house the next day and looked at the tuner for obvious things like bad cables or low voltage on the PS, etc. All good. I said to him I've got to go inside and look around to see if we got loose connections or cold soldered joints. It looked to me the unit had never been opened.
I pulled the top off and it looked like it had a Tunguska event on all of the components that in my opinion should have been standing up, even some were bent over touching the metal side of the unit but thankfully no shorts. It really looked like someone had taken their hand and pushed every standing component over.
I took my magnifying glass and carefully looked at the whole CB and found nothing broke. I started carefully bending the components back up and especially those that were leaning against the metal sides. Checked both sides for obvious cold soldered joints and found none. I got my Bil to check, too, he has better eyes than me.
We put it all back together and hooked it up. Got the 991 warmed up and he tried transmitting on 15. Where it had been taking almost 5 minutes to tune (it has that blinking green light) this time it took 3 seconds to find a tuning solution on his net frequency.
He looked at me and asked what did you do? I said you saw what I did - just straightened all the components back up.
He is still using it and it’s still working great.

No adventure so far with LDG. I never had or used one of their tuners in the past. Kind of weird that you had to straighten components inside the tuner especially if it looked like it never had been open before.

 

[alcahuete]

Many years ago i had an MFJ 949E that i tried to use with a TS2000 and it never worked too well and the meter eventually fell inside the enclosure. This was the end for me with MFJ. Buying used stuff is not really my cup of tea unless i know the seller very well. Definitely would not buy a used MFJ product under no circumstances lol.

I'm still waiting for an answer from LDG, hopefully they will get back to me by the end of next week. So far Palstar was much faster at getting back to me.

LOL!!! Yeah, I hear you. It's really hit or miss with them these days it seems. Depends on whether or not QC got a hold of the batch or not. I have gotten pretty lucky, thankfully.

My previous tuner was a LDG1000 Pro II and unfortunately, it only handled 1000W. The worst part was that it only did something like 350W in digital modes. No thanks. I really like their tuners, but if you ever plan on running a decent sized amp, you're going to be rebuying something else.

My 2nd choice (actually my 1st choice at the time) before I went with the MFJ was the Palstar HF-Auto. Was ready to throw down the cash until I used my friend's. Slow as hell with the huge roller inductor, especially when changing bands. Not that I do anything that requires super fast band changes, but it was just annoying to me.

 

[jazzboypro]

LOL!!! Yeah, I hear you. It's really hit or miss with them these days it seems. Depends on whether or not QC got a hold of the batch or not. I have gotten pretty lucky, thankfully.

My previous tuner was a LDG1000 Pro II and unfortunately, it only handled 1000W. The worst part was that it only did something like 350W in digital modes. No thanks. I really like their tuners, but if you ever plan on running a decent sized amp, you're going to be rebuying something else.

My 2nd choice (actually my 1st choice at the time) before I went with the MFJ was the Palstar HF-Auto. Was ready to throw down the cash until I used my friend's. Slow as hell with the huge roller inductor, especially when changing bands. Not that I do anything that requires super fast band changes, but it was just annoying to me.

I think the Palstar HF-Auto does only 200w on digital

 

[alcahuete]

I think the Palstar HF-Auto does only 200w on digital

Nope. That 200W is the maximum input power for tuning. You're never going to see a 200W digital limit on a legal limit + tuner.

 

[jazzboypro]

Nope. That 200W is the maximum input power for tuning. You're never going to see a 200W digital limit on a legal limit + tuner.

I stand corrected, this is quite a tuner.

 

[alcahuete]

I stand corrected, this is quite a tuner.

Oh it's beautiful! Aside from the $1600 price tag, like I mentioned, the only thing I didn't like when I tried it was that it was a little slow. Does that matter for most people? Probably not. It is definitely a beautiful tuner if you have the money and plan on running legal limit or close to it.

 

[jazzboypro]

Don't know if i would run legal limit but buying an amp is definitely a possibility

 

[jazzboypro]

So i got a response from LDG. First this is what i sent to them by filling the form on their website.

From: mailer@multiscreensite.com <mailer@multiscreensite.com> On Behalf Of form-processor
Sent: June 30, 2023 10:08 AM
To: LDG Electronics Technical Support <support@ldgelectronics.com>; Mark Harmon <markharmon@ldgelectronics.com>
Subject: Form Message


Form Response Notification

The following form has been submitted from your website - https://www.ldgelectronics.com.
Name: Sylvain
Call Sign: VA2FCS
Phone: **************
Email: va2fcs@gmail.com
Subject: Product Info
Product Name: AT-1000PROII
Description of Issue: Hello, i've read on the Internet that contrary to what the user manual says, the interface cable between an Icom radio ant the tuner only provides power to the tuner and nothing else. Is that true ?

Many thanks and have a nice day
73 de VA2FCS
Radio Being Used: IC-7610
Type of Antenna: EFHW-4010-2K-Plus
Power Supply Used: Astron RS-35M


This is the answer i got.

Hello,

It works with most combinations of Icom radios and LDG tuners.

Best regards,

Dwayne Kincaid

WD8OYG

 

[merlin]

I am a bit late here but to the OP: The way internal tuners work is to present a less than 2:1 match to the PA section. If the antenna already has a good match, the tuner switches to bypass.
Here, 80 and 160 meters should be resonant with a decent match. ( I don't know the antenna)
10 Mhz band is not resonant with other bands so if the tuner will tune that in a couple seconds,
it is working.
About power: 100 watt PEP, the tuner can handle that. CW or other continuous modes, power is reduced by the PA to about 50 watts. (maybe 60).
Pressing the 'tune button' power drops to a few watts until the tuning is successful. (< 2 sec)
Outboard tuners serve only one purpose and that is using a linear. Of course the external tuner would have to handle the amp's power. They work the same as internal tuners. some externals
may have control lines (tune/tuned) and get power from the transceiver.
Some have an insulated 'long wire' connection for tuning random length end fed.
some posts above say power is reduced below the CW rating.
Reasons for that are temperature roll back to prevent PA thermal runaway or other PA protection schemes built into the radio.
I has nothing to do with ATU's
I am right in the middle of some ATU projects, a couple Icom, a Barrett autotune antenna
My problem is these older ATUs use relays that can fail. Easy fixes though.
My best tuner was an SG-230. A wire over 35 feet, it would tune 1.6 Mhz to 30 Mhz.
So there it is from experience.
Cheers

 

[jazzboypro]

I am a bit late here but to the OP: The way internal tuners work is to present a less than 2:1 match to the PA section. If the antenna already has a good match, the tuner switches to bypass.
Here, 80 and 160 meters should be resonant with a decent match. ( I don't know the antenna)
10 Mhz band is not resonant with other bands so if the tuner will tune that in a couple seconds,
it is working.
About power: 100 watt PEP, the tuner can handle that. CW or other continuous modes, power is reduced by the PA to about 50 watts. (maybe 60).
Pressing the 'tune button' power drops to a few watts until the tuning is successful. (< 2 sec)
Outboard tuners serve only one purpose and that is using a linear. Of course the external tuner would have to handle the amp's power. They work the same as internal tuners. some externals
may have control lines (tune/tuned) and get power from the transceiver.
Some have an insulated 'long wire' connection for tuning random length end fed.
some posts above say power is reduced below the CW rating.
Reasons for that are temperature roll back to prevent PA thermal runaway or other PA protection schemes built into the radio.
I has nothing to do with ATU's
I am right in the middle of some ATU projects, a couple Icom, a Barrett autotune antenna
My problem is these older ATUs use relays that can fail. Easy fixes though.
My best tuner was an SG-230. A wire over 35 feet, it would tune 1.6 Mhz to 30 Mhz.
So there it is from experience.
Cheers

I think the internal tuner of the 7610 is good up to 3:1. The antenna that I have is a EFHW 4010 from myantennas. The antenna is designed for the 10-15-20-40 meter bands. I can use the antenna on those bands without the internal tuner but I sometimes do. The internal tuner can tune the antenna on 12 and 17 meter band. It can’t tune 80-160. Tuning 80 would have been nice since we have local nets on that band.

So far I’ve been doing FT8 only (and some listening until I get comfortable making voice contact). Most of the time I can work FT8 using 10W and I sometimes go up to 50W as oppose to using 100W all the time when I started.

I get that I may not need an external tuner right away since I don’t have a linear yet. I just thought that an external tuner my tune my antenna on 80 meter. As for LDG tuners, I was not satisfied with the answer they gave me and found is answer to be evasive, I will definitely look for something else.

Thanks for your input on the subject.