External Tuner

[jazzboypro]

Hello all,

I am currently using this EFHW antenna. This model works well without a tuner on 10-15-20 and 40. With the rig's built-in tuner i can use the antenna on 12 and 17. The rig's built-in tuner won't tune the other bands. Do you think an external tuner would make it possible to match the antenna for the other bands ?

Many thanks
73 de Sylvain

 

[tweiss3]

It depends. Put an antenna analyzer on it to check.

The internal tuners will bring 3:1 into acceptable range, an external tuner typically have a bigger range of tuning to 10:1 on HF, and typically are still limited to 3:1 on 6 meters. If you hook up an analyzer and it shows greater than 10:1 then you are out of luck, but if its under then usually a tuner will work for your situation.

Pay close attention to the duty cycle rating too. Many tuners list 100W, but that's low duty cycle on SSB, and FM/AM/Digital is usually about 1/4 of the peak power rating.

 

[jazzboypro]

It depends. Put an antenna analyzer on it to check.

The internal tuners will bring 3:1 into acceptable range, an external tuner typically have a bigger range of tuning to 10:1 on HF, and typically are still limited to 3:1 on 6 meters. If you hook up an analyzer and it shows greater than 10:1 then you are out of luck, but if its under then usually a tuner will work for your situation.

Pay close attention to the duty cycle rating too. Many tuners list 100W, but that's low duty cycle on SSB, and FM/AM/Digital is usually about 1/4 of the peak power rating.

Thanks for the info. I will try to borrow an antenna Analyste since I don’t have one. So far I’ve been using FT8 only. HF is fairly new to me but I will of course use voice eventually. I believe there are some nets in my area so I’ll probably start there.

 

[tweiss3]

FT8 is where you have to be careful on the rating. I have a tuner that is rated for 135W, but will only handle 35W in FT8.

 

[jazzboypro]

FT8 is where you have to be careful on the rating. I have a tuner that is rated for 135W, but will only handle 35W in FT8.

So if the rig can output 100W i should assume that the built-in tuner can handle about 25W and this is the maximum power i should be using ?

 

[tweiss3]

IRC you are using a 7610, you should be fine at full power. It's the external tuners you have to make sure you are within its limits.

 

[jazzboypro]

Thanks. Assuming i was to buy a tuner it needs to handle at least 400W if i want to use the rig at full power (don't have an amp at the moment)

 

[i-Scan]

The tuner does not put power into the antenna. Tuner function is to match impedance so as NOT to burn out your final stage. So if you have a great tuner that can tune up a bobby pin or a good tuner and decent antenna but a high Standing Wave Voltage Ratio or bad coax/feeder... Well all the other losses kill the power but a great tuner can overcome the mismatch to protect your transmitter final. Just saying, only the the losses diminish actual transmitted power.

 

[jazzboypro]

The tuner does not put power into the antenna. Tuner function is to match impedance so as NOT to burn out your final stage. So if you have a great tuner that can tune up a bobby pin or a good tuner and decent antenna but a high Standing Wave Voltage Ratio or bad coax/feeder... Well all the other losses kill the power but a great tuner can overcome the mismatch to protect your transmitter final. Just saying, only the the losses diminish actual transmitted power.

I get that the tuner does not put power into the antenna but from the posts above my understanding is that on FT8 the tuner will handle about 25% of it's rated power so if i want the tuner to handle 100W on FT8 i need a tuner rated for at least 400W. Please correct me if i misunderstood.

 

[tweiss3]

Yea, you will just have to look at the specifications:


vs



Just need to do your research. You should check your antenna to see if it will accomplish what you want as well.

 

[jazzboypro]

Yea, you will just have to look at the specifications:


vs



Just need to do your research. You should check your antenna to see if it will accomplish what you want as well.

According to the antenna specification 350W is the maximum power for digital modes on the bands it is designed for. I will first need to find out if an external tuner would work on the other bands.

 

[db_gain]

For digital modes that aren't 100 percent full duty cycle most any commercial tuner that states it supports the rated output of the radio should do. Many rigs will have imd in their output if run at full duty cycle, many digital modes will trip the alc if run at full power meaning you're causing splatter on the bands, so never run digital modes with an alc indication above 0. I've seen full power digital modes like fsk unsolder inductors on the radio's pcb, some rigs do not tolerate extensive 100 percent duty cycle very well.

 

[prcguy]

I use an LDG IT-100 on most of my Icoms and they have been working great. I have not specifically done FT8 with them but I wouldn't run full power if I did, maybe 25w max. The LDGs will tune up to about a 10:1 VSWR and should tune the 40m EFHW on 80m but the performance is pretty bad and way down from an 80m EFHW like 10-20dB down. In this case you are trying to tune a 1/4 wavelength of wire which is usually not a problem but there is a 50 to 2500 ohm transformer in the middle that will cause drastic losses when used this way.

 

[alcahuete]

Don't forget, the 7610 also has emergency mode, which will match 10:1, but will limit the output power automatically to 50W.

 

[TexTAC]

The Palstar AT-500 tuner is a very good manual tuner. It is rated 600 Watts PEP SSB; 500 Watts CW from 6m to 160m. Some people don’t like manual tuners but I prefer them and once you know the settings for each band for each antenna you can tune them in a few seconds. The AT2KD model is rated 2000 watts PEP. Both are big and pricey though.

 

[tweiss3]

The Palstar AT-500 tuner is a very good manual tuner. It is rated 600 Watts PEP SSB; 500 Watts CW from 6m to 160m. Some people don’t like manual tuners but I prefer them and once you know the settings for each band for each antenna you can tune them in a few seconds. The AT2KD model is rated 2000 watts PEP. Both are big and pricey though.

Palstar will only match 8:1

 

[jazzboypro]

I use an LDG IT-100 on most of my Icoms and they have been working great. I have not specifically done FT8 with them but I wouldn't run full power if I did, maybe 25w max. The LDGs will tune up to about a 10:1 VSWR and should tune the 40m EFHW on 80m but the performance is pretty bad and way down from an 80m EFHW like 10-20dB down. In this case you are trying to tune a 1/4 wavelength of wire which is usually not a problem but there is a 50 to 2500 ohm transformer in the middle that will cause drastic losses when used this way.

I would be interested in 80 but if it's that bad it' probably not worth the investment

 

[prcguy]

I would be interested in 80 but if it's that bad it' probably not worth the investment

I can make contacts on 80m using a 40m EFHW but its way down from the higher bands. When conditions are good its ok but its like using QRP power.

 

[jazzboypro]

Been comparing the Palstar AT2KD and LDG AT-1000PROII. Of course there are major differences between the 2 but still wanted to compare them. After reading the reviews i noticed at least 3 issues that were often cited with the LDG AT-1000PROII:

1- Difficult to use (short/medium/long press of the buttons and LED meaning)
2- The fully auto tune mode rarely achieve the best match and you have to manually finish the tuning
3- Point 2 seems to be mandatory for those running a solid state amp.
4- Apparently, in order for the memories to work LDG as divided the spectrum into small pieces that are allocated to each of the 1000 memory channels. If you happen to need 2 different settings for frequencies that are in the same small piece of spectrum you can only memorize one of them.

I did read the manual of the LDG AT-1000PROII and i agree that it seems like a pain to operate. At the moment i fail to understand what is the point of having an auto tuner if you have to manually finish the tuning (especially if you have a solid state amp)

I'll try to look for more info but at this point i'm leaning toward the palstar

 

[prcguy]

Been comparing the Palstar AT2KD and LDG AT-1000PROII. Of course there are major differences between the 2 but still wanted to compare them. After reading the reviews i noticed at least 3 issues that were often cited with the LDG AT-1000PROII:

1- Difficult to use (short/medium/long press of the buttons and LED meaning)
2- The fully auto tune mode rarely achieve the best match and you have to manually finish the tuning
3- Point 2 seems to be mandatory for those running a solid state amp.
4- Apparently, in order for the memories to work LDG as divided the spectrum into small pieces that are allocated to each of the 1000 memory channels. If you happen to need 2 different settings for frequencies that are in the same small piece of spectrum you can only memorize one of them.

I did read the manual of the LDG AT-1000PROII and i agree that it seems like a pain to operate. At the moment i fail to understand what is the point of having an auto tuner if you have to manually finish the tuning (especially if you have a solid state amp)

I'll try to look for more info but at this point i'm leaning toward the palstar

I have an AT-1000PROII with optional wattmeter connected to my Icom 7610 and it works flawlessly. I run upwards of 1,200 watts through it and you just press the tune button on the radio and it works. I used to use the antenna selector in the tuner to go between an 80m EFHW and a HexBeam but I now use a 12V coaxial relay controlled through the Internet since I occasionally use the radio remote.

I also have a Palstar tuner similar to the AT2K but I haven't used it in about 5yrs. Its nice but I did have a problem where it would find a perfect match but my TL-922A amplifier at the time would internally arc. When I used a different tune and achieved a similar math it would not arc. Probably some difference in the L/C combination the amplifier didn't like. Its also a PIA to manually tune every time you make a frequency or band change where the LDG is simple.

I also have the 600w and a bunch of 100w LDG tuners and they have never failed me. Well, except for the old POS 100w tuner they made in the plastic case.