My comment was due to signal500's comment of "I have been all over the lower 48 states".
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FCC Enforcement, tasty, tasty enforcement….
- Thread starter mmckenna
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Project4
Member
So, maybe we should start with the hobby radio services, since there's no chance that someone unknowingly could interfere with public safety users, or interfere with a business by using the ham bands for a "no harm/no foul" radio service.
Finally!
From another website in 2010, quoted with permission from the author:
"That said, I propose a new HF radio service."
"I suggest the amateur "EMCOMM" endorsed "go-pack" radio systems (transceiver/portable antenna/power supply) be mass-marketed. Thousands of these systems could be sold to the public for "emergency" use. Hard core CB'ers spend thousands of dollars on their stations and I believe many other citizens would too. Peace of mind is priceless. The amateur community has wasted no opportunity telling the public and our elected representatives how our equipment will save lives "when all else fails". Let's get that gear into more hands so more will be saved. From what I (and others quoted) heard in this most recent event, there is no training or inherited skill set necessary to key up and announce "I didn't hear anything". Commercial HF equipment has been used successfully by thousands of recreational boaters with minimal training. Today's modern radios are even easier to use and hams have even duplicated military grade ALE systems."
"If a CB service with HF privileges was established, it is likely the manufacturers of ham HF equipment would jump at the sales opportunity. It might even bring down the cost of our gear.
Anyone else care to help me author a formal proposal to the FCC? Obviously, we will need to reallocate a portion of the spectrum where amateur operations are now licensed. This will allow current hams to actively "Elmer" these new users and guide them in only the best operating practices. When the new service becomes viable, we may need to relinquish a larger percentage of existing spectrum."
Finally!
From another website in 2010, quoted with permission from the author:
"That said, I propose a new HF radio service."
"I suggest the amateur "EMCOMM" endorsed "go-pack" radio systems (transceiver/portable antenna/power supply) be mass-marketed. Thousands of these systems could be sold to the public for "emergency" use. Hard core CB'ers spend thousands of dollars on their stations and I believe many other citizens would too. Peace of mind is priceless. The amateur community has wasted no opportunity telling the public and our elected representatives how our equipment will save lives "when all else fails". Let's get that gear into more hands so more will be saved. From what I (and others quoted) heard in this most recent event, there is no training or inherited skill set necessary to key up and announce "I didn't hear anything". Commercial HF equipment has been used successfully by thousands of recreational boaters with minimal training. Today's modern radios are even easier to use and hams have even duplicated military grade ALE systems."
"If a CB service with HF privileges was established, it is likely the manufacturers of ham HF equipment would jump at the sales opportunity. It might even bring down the cost of our gear.
Anyone else care to help me author a formal proposal to the FCC? Obviously, we will need to reallocate a portion of the spectrum where amateur operations are now licensed. This will allow current hams to actively "Elmer" these new users and guide them in only the best operating practices. When the new service becomes viable, we may need to relinquish a larger percentage of existing spectrum."
This idea need to be discussed over on QRZ 😂. The mere mention of this could cause major mental health issues amongst the community.
CB is like channelized HF and 60 Meters is mandated that way as well... Could additional areas be like CB in other areas of the spectrum? I shouldn't see why not.
60 Meters (5 MHz channels)
*Only one signal at a time is permitted on any channel*Maximum effective radiated output is 100 W PEP
Anyone know what ultimately happened on this?
Not sure. I wonder myself what happened to him
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
So, he was still around as of September 2023.I'd honestly hope that someone (agency, FCC, local ham club, etc) would have a frank discussion with the individual and there would be some education happening. While not this case, the FCC has made it pretty clear where they stand on this matter of hams messing about on public safety frequencies:
I'd personally not be against that being the end of the matter. I'd hope that any individual smart enough to get their ham ticket could continue to learn and understand about such things and they'd be permitted to continue on with the hobby. While we all like to hope that high fines happen and licenses get cancelled, we know that they don't. Hopefully said individual realized their mistake and gave a heartfelt apology and made sure the issue would not reoccur.
MTS2000des
5B2_BEE00 Czar
One should be more concerned about local/state criminal consequences than the FCC pulling a ham license. For all we know, some ADA could be doing his/her homework and cooking up a nice bill of indictment. Either way, as a licensee, he clearly demonstrated and articulated he knew what he was doing and knew the ramifications of such. FAFO.
RFI-EMI-GUY
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Here in Floduh, a pirate radio station violates a state law. Seems pimply faced kids in their garage radio station are going to the big house. Locally a church is running a "part 15" station that blasts several miles. Nearby a guy who happens to be a HS gym teacher has a far more powerful station streaming some west coast "Boss" format.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
I 100% agree with the FAFO part. I only wish the "FO" part happened more frequently.
I don't agree that a ham license, on its own, is enough to say that the individual should have known better. Many hams only learn enough to pass the multiple choice test. Nothing in the ham test covers Part 90 rules or trunked radio systems. Someone with enough experience should absolutely know better, but I don't think we can assume that a ham license on its own is enough proof of experience. You've read all the same posts I have on this site that would back that up. Far too many screwing up NAS or assuming their ham license gives them access to public safety radio systems, "when all else fails".
MTS2000des
5B2_BEE00 Czar
This dude was a ham since 1984. He clearly knew more than an enough about trunking radios to go and give a presentation on it. He knew better. He chose to be a Richard Cranium and got popped. He got his ham ticket well before the know enough to pass a multiple choice test. He got in when one had to go an FCC field office to take a test and do so in front of an FCC examiner.
He went well beyond NAS. He was using IDs he either harvested out of read codeplugs or off the air. (Thank you for reminding me why I password protect all our agency radios). He was not the typical NAS YouTube clown. Way more dangerous and way more bold which is why he should get sausaged to WELL DONE.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
True, but I think we give hams far too much credit sometimes.
There's no shortage of hobbyists that will do presentations or claim knowledge about things that they do not fully understand. I've had a few hams want to argue with me about how my own systems work.
Absolutely, "should" have known better. Obviously did not, never learned, forgot, or otherwise blew it completely.
And the same reason for me I password protect radios, never let codeplugs out of my sight, never let anyone else have system keys, never share too much info or details, etc. Too many people that assume….
There's no shortage of hobbyists that will do presentations or claim knowledge about things that they do not fully understand. I've had a few hams want to argue with me about how my own systems work.
Absolutely, "should" have known better. Obviously did not, never learned, forgot, or otherwise blew it completely.
And the same reason for me I password protect radios, never let codeplugs out of my sight, never let anyone else have system keys, never share too much info or details, etc. Too many people that assume….
ElroyJetson
Getting tired of all the stupidity.
There are some good reasons, all of which have been articulated in this discussion, that have guided me to my current state, which is to be a dedicated Harris user, so as to neatly avoid several legal issues. You see, if you're willing to spend the money, you CAN purchase a legitimate all access dongle that serves as a golden system key for Harris programming. I didn't think the price was excessive so....
Harris just makes it so much easier to be able to both be RESPONSIBLE and also have full scanning access with a professional grade radio.
Even then, my radios are password protected and set to erase if the password is fumbled more than X times. And X is not a large number,
as I'm not likely to fumble my own password more than once or twice.
I can't claim ignorance. Not even close. So if anything I must be extra careful if I decide to try to listen to somebody.
Even though to this day my "dream radio" is still an APX8000, I'd probably take an XL200P instead because of all the problems I can avoid with that choice, while having all the same potential capabilities. I can handle the slightly inferior ergonomics of the Harris radio. The tradeoff is worth it.
Harris just makes it so much easier to be able to both be RESPONSIBLE and also have full scanning access with a professional grade radio.
Even then, my radios are password protected and set to erase if the password is fumbled more than X times. And X is not a large number,
as I'm not likely to fumble my own password more than once or twice.
I can't claim ignorance. Not even close. So if anything I must be extra careful if I decide to try to listen to somebody.
Even though to this day my "dream radio" is still an APX8000, I'd probably take an XL200P instead because of all the problems I can avoid with that choice, while having all the same potential capabilities. I can handle the slightly inferior ergonomics of the Harris radio. The tradeoff is worth it.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Yeah, there's certainly easier ways to do this. I suspect, based on many posts here, that some -want- the Motorola brand name hanging off their hip. No other brand name will do.
ElroyJetson
Getting tired of all the stupidity.
LOL, I really get that. At heart I'm a Blue Batwings fanboi, and if I could get Moto radios to deliver what I want with zero risk and no need to step across any potential legal obstacles, I'd use only them. But "operational safety", so to speak, is even more important to me.
I can use a Harris radio to monitor a P25 system and break ZERO laws getting there. If I don't have system key access via an authorized provider, I can't match that with a Moto radio. That made my choice a simple one.
That's not to say that it's dead simple to do that with a Harris radio. They actually don't have the capacity to do trunked mode slaved scan from conventional channels, or at least I've never found a way, so the method required to do NAS is not the same. Additional learning must take place. That learning carries with it a risk factor of its own.
I can use a Harris radio to monitor a P25 system and break ZERO laws getting there. If I don't have system key access via an authorized provider, I can't match that with a Moto radio. That made my choice a simple one.
That's not to say that it's dead simple to do that with a Harris radio. They actually don't have the capacity to do trunked mode slaved scan from conventional channels, or at least I've never found a way, so the method required to do NAS is not the same. Additional learning must take place. That learning carries with it a risk factor of its own.
I have both types of radios. Harris makes it so much easier and no risk of interfering with the system. I can get the Moto to do it with no risk, but the steps are far much more in depth. I just dont use it that much anymore and may sell it. Back to the subject, I dont care what is hanging off my hip, I care that it works correctly. You are correct, many just want the big M on the hip and are not responsible enough to take the time and knowledge to set the radio up correctly or they use cloned ID's and think they will never get caught. It's the people who do that and they give hams and our hobby a bad name.
MTS2000des
5B2_BEE00 Czar
Because only BatWing radios offer the "cop" look and exclusive CopSounds™ and FireSounds™. Supreme whackers like DeWitte would never add a lowly Harris radio to their cosplay ensemble. Only a 25 year old XTS3000 or wrong band XTS5000 with PSM will fit the bill for that faux cop look.
Harris radios are far easier and cheaper to get an RX only setup going if one doesn't want a Relm (pricey but fool proof) or be forced to a Unication RX only, because you know, many will articulate having a transmitter "just in case" and "when all else fails" they can pop on when the zombies return and their Baoturd doesn't work...
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