FCC Opens Rulemaking to Allow Encryption in Amateur Radio Service

[alexmahoney]

Right now?

How about always?

LOL

insult and offense taken.

 

[N4DES]

Not quite people.

The above points are totally inconclusive and some are just downright wrong.

Hams are called upon to assist police, fire and govt organizations every day. You just don't hear about it thru mainstream channels.

Encryption on the ham bands is totally needed to get back at the public safety agencies and the govt so they can learn that they can't walk all over the general public like that.

Encryption also helps in plenty of emergency situations where it is needed that public safety radio can't go.

The FCC put that rulemaking process out there because they saw something positive in it that you guys do not see.

some of you still do NOT get that public safety agencies don't always have other backup alternatives to their main comms.

No it is factual and you just don't like to hear the truth.

BTW...did you take the time to provide your comments to the FCC? If not then voicing your opinion here will get you nowhere, especially with those of us that did take the time to file comments.

 

[N4CA]

Encryption on the ham bands is totally needed to get back at the public safety agencies and the govt so they can learn that they can't walk all over the general public like that.

Huh? Can you explain what you mean by that?

Encryption also helps in plenty of emergency situations where it is needed that public safety radio can't go.

Again, huh? Give an example. Encryption does absolutely nothing except prevent people from getting information. It simply makes it so that only the people you want can get the information. Everyone else hears garbage. In what situation is that needed?


Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

[WB4CS]

Wow...

I've stayed out of this debate for a while. I've gave several examples of why encryption in the ham bands is bad. I've debated with a few folks in this thread. And then I filed my comments with the FCC. Once I did that I decided to take a step back and just watch instead of participate. (I've also been on vacation for the past week and haven't participated much on the RR forums.)

No personal attacks here, but I can't help but wonder, does alexmahoney have any idea what the Amateur Radio Service is? It sure sounds like he's confusing a hobby radio service with a public safety radio service. Alex, if you're unsure exactly what amateur radio is, I'd suggest learning about our hobby. What is Amateur Radio?

I also agree that this thread has become a circular argument that's regurgitating the same comments over and over again. It might be helpful from this point forward if those participating in this discussion let us know if they've filed their comments on the subject to the FCC. As someone else pointed out a few posts above (and several times throughout this thread) debating and bickering on here will not change anything. Unless you've filed your comments (either Pro or Anti) to the FCC, there's not much that can be done here.

 

[alexmahoney]

Wow...

I've stayed out of this debate for a while. I've gave several examples of why encryption in the ham bands is bad. I've debated with a few folks in this thread. And then I filed my comments with the FCC. Once I did that I decided to take a step back and just watch instead of participate. (I've also been on vacation for the past week and haven't participated much on the RR forums.)

No personal attacks here, but I can't help but wonder, does alexmahoney have any idea what the Amateur Radio Service is? It sure sounds like he's confusing a hobby radio service with a public safety radio service. Alex, if you're unsure exactly what amateur radio is, I'd suggest learning about our hobby. What is Amateur Radio?

I also agree that this thread has become a circular argument that's regurgitating the same comments over and over again. It might be helpful from this point forward if those participating in this discussion let us know if they've filed their comments on the subject to the FCC. As someone else pointed out a few posts above (and several times throughout this thread) debating and bickering on here will not change anything. Unless you've filed your comments (either Pro or Anti) to the FCC, there's not much that can be done here.

Yes I know what amateur Radio is.

But let me take the time to explain something to you since you asked.

I have been reading this forum for about 2 years now without joining and I am shocked at both the members and mods of this board and the way they act towards one another.

I have seen mods kick people for the wrong reasons, I have seen members trash each other and all sorts of garbage that doesn't need to happen on this board.

I do not need to get into details but some of the mods here think it's ok for them to boss others around and tell them what they can and cannot say, that is just totally wrong.

Now I invite you and others who may disagree with me to just google "Radio Reference" and I guarantee you will find some things that will shock you.

This thread has become a circus with people going out of their way to state flat out lies of things that are actually truths.

I am going to remind you here about 9/11 and the changes that came about in communications because of it. I personally think that encryption on the ham bands would be the best thing because getting a ham license is not hard to do anymore and ANYBODY, Bad guys included, could listen in and paln for the worst.

NOW, on the other hand, some of you think encryption would jeopardize the bands because of the openness of amateur radio.

i have been told by many in this thread that i don't post supporting facts, well to say it in a nutshell, neither have any of you, you are just talking to be talking.

the only thing that has been right on spot is the ARES arguments, HOWEVER, there would be certain exceptions to where encryption would need to be used.

Some of you are also blowing the HIPPA issue way out of proportion. Hippa does not 100% apply to personal info because I hear a local ambulance service here and I believe Hippa has more to do with HEALTH issues than personal information. There is a law that says no SS numbers and stuff related can't be broadcast but that is NOT a part of HIPPA.

Health Information Privacy


Some of you need to read this and learn exactly what HIPPA is and what it contains.

Emergency Preparedness Planning and Response

Here is another page talking about HIPPA in emergencies.

Now I do not know everything, but i do know enough to say that some of you need to learn about this HIPPA more than anything else.

I was a Ham and I went through some procedures to have my name removed from the FCC database due to an incident 6 months ago. so for those with a nose for googling people, you won't find anything.

This is all I am concerned with is people trashing others here, Mods punishing people for the stupidest things and of course, people who talk about things they don't have the full information of.

 

[KF4ZMB]

Huh? Can you explain what you mean by that?

I think there is a misunderstanding by some that, for some reason, IF the FCC allowed encryption on amateur radio bands for emergency use that somehow this would allow those with ham radios to be able to monitor public safety communications systems that are encrypted. Or in some other way make it so that the general public (or even just hams) could somehow "copy" encrypted public safety systems. Obviously this is not right at all, and shows, among other things, a complete misunderstanding of how encryption works (and possibly what encryption even is). {Prepare for the backlash here =>} Could be also that is all part of the trolling behavior as well.

Like you, however, I have no clue what he could have possibly meant by that (other than what I say above if he has a misunderstanding of what encryption is and how it works).

Another issue that has popped up on occasion about this issue is the "post 9/11" comment. Any of us that were/are involved with emergency communications/public safety/disaster ops/etc. before and after 9/11 can confirm that the biggest thing that came up after that tragic event was the difficulties with interoperability. These interoperability issues only intensify with encryption. Some don't understand that, I think, because they do not work in public safety/emergency communications/etc., and have never had issues with trying to interoperate with another agency that uses a different system than your agency (much less encryption that you do not have the key for). This also speaks, again, to a misunderstanding of how encryption works. It is a not a flip switch A on all the radios and suddenly they are all encrypted and can receive encryption,etc there is a lot more to the issue than that. I understand that most on this board understand that, but some don't and that leads, in part at least for some, with difficulties understanding why encryption on amateur radio, or most other radio systems, during major emergency/disaster situations is a bad idea.

Christian KF4ZMB

 

[mikewazowski]

Some of you are also blowing the HIPPA issue way out of proportion. Hippa does not 100% apply to personal info because I hear a local ambulance service here and I believe Hippa has more to do with HEALTH issues than personal information. There is a law that says no SS numbers and stuff related can't be broadcast but that is NOT a part of HIPPA.

Sorry but it's hard to take you seriously when you don't even spell HIPAA right.

HIPAA is short for Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act.

If you can't spell it, it's doubtful that you can offer any sort of educated opinion on it. Just saying.

Besides, I thought you posted multiple times that you were done with this thread?

 

[Jimru]

Sorry but it's hard to take you seriously when you don't even spell HIPAA right.

HIPAA is short for Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act.

If you can't spell it, it's doubtful that you can offer any sort of educated opinion on it. Just saying.

Besides, I thought you posted multiple times that you were done with this thread?

Dude, take it from me, you don't wanna go there....HIPPA vs. HIPAA

 

[alexmahoney]

I think there is a misunderstanding by some that, for some reason, IF the FCC allowed encryption on amateur radio bands for emergency use that somehow this would allow those with ham radios to be able to monitor public safety communications systems that are encrypted. Or in some other way make it so that the general public (or even just hams) could somehow "copy" encrypted public safety systems. Obviously this is not right at all, and shows, among other things, a complete misunderstanding of how encryption works (and possibly what encryption even is). {Prepare for the backlash here =>} Could be also that is all part of the trolling behavior as well.

Like you, however, I have no clue what he could have possibly meant by that (other than what I say above if he has a misunderstanding of what encryption is and how it works).

Another issue that has popped up on occasion about this issue is the "post 9/11" comment. Any of us that were/are involved with emergency communications/public safety/disaster ops/etc. before and after 9/11 can confirm that the biggest thing that came up after that tragic event was the difficulties with interoperability. These interoperability issues only intensify with encryption. Some don't understand that, I think, because they do not work in public safety/emergency communications/etc., and have never had issues with trying to interoperate with another agency that uses a different system than your agency (much less encryption that you do not have the key for). This also speaks, again, to a misunderstanding of how encryption works. It is a not a flip switch A on all the radios and suddenly they are all encrypted and can receive encryption,etc there is a lot more to the issue than that. I understand that most on this board understand that, but some don't and that leads, in part at least for some, with difficulties understanding why encryption on amateur radio, or most other radio systems, during major emergency/disaster situations is a bad idea.

Christian KF4ZMB

Christian, this has NOTHING to do with interoperabilty, this has to do with the fact that ALL of you are fussing over the ADVANCE of amateur radio to keep up with public safety comms.

let me make this plain and clear so you Christian can understand it. There is nothing at all wrong with encryption on the amateur bands, nothing at all. You, as well as the others are making hodge-podge because you assume that encryption will be a mess but you don't really know that because you don't know how it will be implemented if it does get allowed by the FCC.

I made it clear and so did 2 others, that single radios could have an encryption switch and that there was no need for a master switch like in public safety. you don't need amateur repeaters to have encryption if you are working a small scale emergency. single radios are fine.

and as i said before, you guys are blowing this WAY out of proportion when it's just a process right now to see if it will be implemented.

you guys who have already voiced your opinions to the FCC have done so in the wrong way.

Let this go through before you make wild statements that it will be a mess.

That's all I have to say.

 

[alexmahoney]

Sorry but it's hard to take you seriously when you don't even spell HIPAA right.

HIPAA is short for Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act.

If you can't spell it, it's doubtful that you can offer any sort of educated opinion on it. Just saying.

Besides, I thought you posted multiple times that you were done with this thread?

Mike, I posted the web site links, that is enough info for you, bashing my spelling is a really bad idea.

 

[loumaag]

...
That's all I have to say.

I am holding you to this statement.

 

[WB4CS]

...this has to do with the fact that ALL of you are fussing over the ADVANCE of amateur radio to keep up with public safety comms.

And this is why I asked if you know what Amateur Radio is. We are NOT a public safety communication system. Amateur Radio is a hobby. Granted it's a hobby that does assist public safety during emergencies, but the public safety systems are their own system that has nothing to do with Amateur Radio. I say again, Amateur Radio is a HOBBY. While some hams might be police officers, EMA members, paramedics, etc, we are not here to be -in any way- a public safety communication system.

Furthermore, I would imagine that about 5-8% of the time Amateur Radio is used for any type of emergency communications.(Yes I made that number up, but it's probably pretty accurate) The other 90% or so of the time we are chit-chatting with other locals, chasing DX stations, or working contests. Is encryption really needed for that 5-8% of communications?

I'll say again, Amateur Radio is a hobby. Hobby. Hobby. H-O-B-B-Y. We're not public service. Wait for it.... nope, still not public service. Still a hobby.

 

[zz0468]

Yes I know what amateur Radio is.

I'm not certain that you do. You have repeatedly made a number of statements that indicate a serious misunderstanding of both amateur radio, and Part 90 services.

But let me take the time to explain something to you since you asked.

I have been reading this forum for about 2 years now without joining and I am shocked at both the members and mods of this board and the way they act towards one another.

The biggest issue on this forum are those, such as yourself, that loudly proclaim everyone else is wrong, when your own comments are inherently flawed.

I do not need to get into details but some of the mods here think it's ok for them to boss others around and tell them what they can and cannot say, that is just totally wrong.

This has nothing to do with this thread. perhaps you need to start a separate thread on how much you dislike RR moderators. The Tavern would be an appropriate venue for that rant.

This thread has become a circus with people going out of their way to state flat out lies of things that are actually truths.

It's a circus, and you are the head clown.

...I personally think that encryption on the ham bands would be the best thing because getting a ham license is not hard to do anymore...

It's NEVER been particularly hard. But no matter, that's a ridiculous reason to justify encryption. It makes no sense whatsoever.

NOW, on the other hand, some of you think encryption would jeopardize the bands because of the openness of amateur radio.

The biggest issue I see people having with encryption is that it's not plug and play, and that administering things like encryption keys could be very difficult in a loosely organized service such as amateur radio.

i have been told by many in this thread that i don't post supporting facts.

Which is true. Not only do you not post supporting facts, the opinions you've rendered are based on flawed perceptions.

well to say it in a nutshell, neither have any of you, you are just talking to be talking.

This is not true. I have seen some excellent opinions rendered, both for and against.

Some of you are also blowing the HIPPA issue way out of proportion...

...Now I do not know everything, but i do know enough to say that some of you need to learn about this HIPPA more than anything else.

Point given, I agree with you here.

I was a Ham and I went through some procedures to have my name removed from the FCC database due to an incident 6 months ago. so for those with a nose for googling people, you won't find anything.

Really? Well, here's a problem. You came in like gangbusters telling everyone they're wrong, and rendering half baked opinions that only serve to illustrate the depths of your misconceptions. So, you have a dubious background in amateur radio, and very clearly no background in public safety communications or disaster communications, and then tell everyone else they're wrong.

Do you see why people are giving you a hard time? Are you surprised?

This is all I am concerned with is people trashing others here, Mods punishing people for the stupidest things and of course, people who talk about things they don't have the full information of.

Then take this up in the Tavern rants forum, and leave it out of an otherwise interesting thread. This is not the place for it.

 

[loumaag]

Attention Folks!

Please stop addressing alexmahoney's arguments. He as decided to stop posting, so please do not cause him to have to respond.

 

[zz0468]

duly noted. =)

 

[PJH]

Outstanding

 

[KF4ZMB]

Outstanding

As always PJH I love the picture! Holding my breath? No, but love the picture.

 

[KF4ZMB]

Just checked the FCC website for the comments on RM-11699. As of this writing there are 235 comments made and posted on this issue. The vast majority of them are very well written, and offer a plethora of information about this issue. Also, from looking at all of them individually myself, the majority are in opposition to this proposal.

Just wanted to send the update.

Christian KF4ZMB

 

[gmt0000]

Maybe we should just communicate sensitive emergency information in CW, this seems to be lost to most hams these days!

 

[WayneH]

Please stop addressing alexmahoney's arguments. He as decided to stop posting, so please do not cause him to have to respond.

I agree. There's also the forum's Ignore List...

http://forums.radioreference.com/profile.php?do=ignorelist
Then add member's name.

If you use FF or Chrome you can use a script to do a full ignore so nothing is shown. https://userscripts.org/scripts/show/24465