Franklin County digital bursts

[stlouisx50]

I can confirm that Franklin County Sheriff is still VHF Analog, but noticed digital bursts coming across as if something was being quickly keyed. Then at home, I noticed their fire frequency doing the same. This seems new. Anyone know anything about it?

 

[talkpair]

Band conditions have been wild for a few days.

It may be something from out of your area.

 

[Starcom21]

The recently added mobile extenders on 173.3375.

155.4375 and 153.9725 are also licensed for NXDN. (But aren't noted in use)

Better question, are they simulcasting on MOSWIN or Slater possibly?

 

[stlouisx50]

The recently added mobile extenders on 173.3375.

155.4375 and 153.9725 are also licensed for NXDN. (But aren't noted in use)

Better question, are they simulcasting on MOSWIN or Slater possibly?

As of Monday Crawford County moswin sites and all of the Franklin sites had been quiet. No new traffic.

 

[kruser]

The recently added mobile extenders on 173.3375.

155.4375 and 153.9725 are also licensed for NXDN. (But aren't noted in use)

Better question, are they simulcasting on MOSWIN or Slater possibly?

There was an article my nephew read to me a while back from a small town newspaper in Pacific, MO about Franklin County possibly going to Moswin in the not far off future. That was a few months ago though and I never heard anything further on it.
I've never heard anything other than Washington City FPD testing on Moswin as far as Franklin Co users go.
The two 700 MHz Moswin towers in Franklin Co are out of range for me so if they are also on Moswin, they are only hitting those towers with no radios affiliating to the Weldon Spring VHF Moswin tower.

 

[electron234]

Franklin county changed to 154.6725 ctcss 151.4 they call it channel 2 not sure if its permanent or not

 

[kruser]

I can confirm that Franklin County Sheriff is still VHF Analog, but noticed digital bursts coming across as if something was being quickly keyed. Then at home, I noticed their fire frequency doing the same. This seems new. Anyone know anything about it?

I can hear these short keyups or databursts here in Chesterfield, MO.
Their signal level is considerably stronger than the normal analog signals I hear from 151.340.

Not sure what it is but it's consistent so I don't think it's an odd band opening.
It very well could be a mobile extender like Terry mentioned. Those tend to behave in odd ways at times.

I just saw the post from @electron234 and 154.6725 is very active and clear here. Also using the PL tone of 151.4 that was mentioned.
Heard several familiar landmarks mentioned and this is definitely Franklin County. Also has a much better signal here in Chesterfield than they ever did when they used 151.340

 

[Starcom21]

Have there been any power outages? Could they possibly using emergency / backup power?

I can confirm that Franklin County Sheriff is still VHF Analog, but noticed digital bursts coming across as if something was being quickly keyed. Then at home, I noticed their fire frequency doing the same. This seems new. Anyone know anything about it?

 

[rbritton1201]

I noticed that 154.6725 is listed as a MOSWIN frequency. So, maybe it's on loan from MSHP. FCSD is currently operating via analog on that frequency. I noticed that their tower has some new round white looking dishes mounted on it, so it's apparent that some changes are coming, but not sure if this frequency change is only temporary as they make some changes, or if the frequency is going to be permanent. I entered the frequency into my DMR radio, which also operates analog, along with the 151.4 tone, and it's receiving FCSD radio traffic perfectly, programmed as analog. I noticed that they're still dispatching for St. Clair PD using St. Clair PDs frequency, and that works fine. The micro-bursts are still heard on 151.340. I have a subscription to Broadcastify, and they haven't changed their server to include the 154.6725 frequency, so all you hear is the micro-bursts from the old FCSD channel. I've noticed that the FCSD radio system has been working pretty crappy for at least a year or more, and I suspect some major changes are in the works, but not sure exactly what they're up to. I'm going to hold off making any programming changes in my scanner, and DMR radios, etc...until I know whether this change is permanent or not. If the changes don't become apparent in the next few weeks, I may have to make some inquiries with my ARES chapter. I'm sure the EMA people will know what's going on.

 

[rbritton1201]

I just copied a transmission from the FCSD dispatcher acknowledging a deputy going on duty, who stated his channel 1 wasn't working. He switched over to his channel 2 to make contact with dispatch. The dispatcher advised that they switched over to Channel 2, which is 154.6725, due to an interference issue on channel 1. So, who knows whether they're making changes to their system, or whether it's simply an interference issue that prompted them to switch to their channel 2.

I recall when the micro bursts first started a few days ago, I was still hearing transmissions from dispatch, along with the micro bursts. Then, the last few days, I heard absolutely no radio traffic on the main frequency, other than intermittent micro burst transmissions. So, it sounds like the micro bursts were driving them nuts, or interfering with legitimate radio traffic, so they switched over to channel 2. What I don't understand is if their tone squelch was activated, and they switched just because the interference was driving them nuts, that they would have been hearing micro burst interference at all with tone squelch activated.

Does anyone know if it's possible that some issue with their own equipment could be randomly micro bursting transmissions that are interfering with the system itself? By the way, even on 154.6725 (Channel 2), I'm also hearing an occasional micro burst...

I suppose the problem could be band conditions, but it's kind of strange that it would continue for several days, that it's micro bursts only, and that the deputy going on duty wouldn't have known there were system changes causing issues on channel 1, if they were making planned changes to their radio system. Surely, the rank and file would have been informed of radio system changes that might affect the operation of the radio system. It seems to me all the deputies would know in advance of going on duty that there were some planned changes being incorporated into their radio system, and that they needed to use channel 2.

No, this sounds like an unplanned changing over to channel 2 to me. It could be due to changes they're trying to make to their system, defective equipment, or some kind of interference between new and old equipment that's causing the need to suddenly change over to channel 2. I think I'm just going to add the channel 2 frequency to my radios, and leave the main frequency programmed as well. Based on what I heard just now from dispatch, it sounds like once the interference is gone, if ever, they might be switching back to their main frequency. But, who knows...

 

[kruser]

I noticed that 154.6725 is listed as a MOSWIN frequency. So, maybe it's on loan from MSHP.

154.6725 is also a licensed frequency to Franklin County under call WREI358 ULS License - Public Safety Pool, Conventional License - WREI358 - FRANKLIN, COUNTY OF
Everything is licensed for analog only though under this license.
WREI358 also had a construction reminder sent in July of 2020 but there's no record they asked for an construction extension.

WREI358 is a fairly new license issued in 2019 and contains some new and some existing frequencies from the counties other license under call KAL291 ULS License - Public Safety Pool, Conventional License - KAL291 - FRANKLIN, COUNTY OF
KAL291 has added NXDN emission to 3 or so of the frequencies on the license as @Starcom21 noted yesterday but there is nothing added for DMR.
I monitored the ones that added NXDN emission today but didn't get any NXDN or any other digital hits for that matter at all.

 

[rbritton1201]

I forgot to check FCC records. That's good to know that 154.6725 is listed in FCC records as also assigned to FCSD, and that there may also be some other frequencies listed there as well that I was previously unaware of. I had checked a different resource and found 154.6725 in a list of MOSWIN frequencies, and thought perhaps MSHP was loaning a frequency to FCSD temporarily.

Radio Reference and Broadcastify don't even include 154.6725 as a frequency for FCSD, which explains why I can't hear any of the traffic that moved over to 154.6725 on Broadcatify, and I was unaware until now that the channel 2 frequency even existed for entry into my Uniden BCD536HP scanner. With FCSD referring to 154.6725 as their channel 2, Radio Reference and Broadcastify should include them to be monitored for radio traffic.

Frankly, I hope they move the main base back to the old analog frequency so I don't have to reprogram my equipment, which gets tedious. It's not like the old days when we just punched in a new analog frequency. Even various brands of equipment were so similar you couldn't hardly make an error. But, now, with the technology expanding to include digital, and the Chinese also entering into the fray with their product offering and programming methodology, I don't have the ambition or the patience to mess with reprogramming my equipment. But, it would not surprise me if FCSD goes digital at some point, they all seem to be going in that direction.

I have a couple of Chinese Digital (DMR & Analog) radios, and I programmed 154.6725 (analog) into a Retevis RT-84, along with the 151.4 tone squelch code, and I am now receiving FCSD signals flawlessly. Now, if they don't switch back to the old main dispatch frequency, I've got to navigate the programming protocols for the Uniden scanner, and a few other radios I have. Ho Hummm!

 

[stlouisx50]

I forgot to check FCC records. That's good to know that 154.6725 is listed in FCC records as also assigned to FCSD, and that there may also be some other frequencies listed there as well that I was previously unaware of. I had checked a different resource and found 154.6725 in a list of MOSWIN frequencies, and thought perhaps MSHP was loaning a frequency to FCSD temporarily.

Radio Reference and Broadcastify don't even include 154.6725 as a frequency for FCSD, which explains why I can't hear any of the traffic that moved over to 154.6725 on Broadcatify, and I was unaware until now that the channel 2 frequency even existed for entry into my Uniden BCD536HP scanner. With FCSD referring to 154.6725 as their channel 2, Radio Reference and Broadcastify should include them to be monitored for radio traffic.

Frankly, I hope they move the main base back to the old analog frequency so I don't have to reprogram my equipment, which gets tedious. It's not like the old days when we just punched in a new analog frequency. Even various brands of equipment were so similar you couldn't hardly make an error. But, now, with the technology expanding to include digital, and the Chinese also entering into the fray with their product offering and programming methodology, I don't have the ambition or the patience to mess with reprogramming my equipment. But, it would not surprise me if FCSD goes digital at some point, they all seem to be going in that direction.

I have a couple of Chinese Digital (DMR & Analog) radios, and I programmed 154.6725 (analog) into a Retevis RT-84, along with the 151.4 tone squelch code, and I am now receiving FCSD signals flawlessly. Now, if they don't switch back to the old main dispatch frequency, I've got to navigate the programming protocols for the Uniden scanner, and a few other radios I have. Ho Hummm!

Yeah I too dislike the new digital scanners and radios as far as programing. I appreciate you all discovering the new FRANKLIN CO. frequency too. I never saw it in the database before and it wasn't programed in. Unfortunately this seems to happen often around Missouri. Frequencies not listed or they just switch to various Frequencies listed for something else.
I can't count on 2 hands the amount of counties I have driven threw that are dead quiet.

But as far as the digital bursts. Their fire frequency is doing the same thing so it makes me wonder even more. I'm hearing longer data burts now too.

 

[rbritton1201]

As I mentioned, there are some new white, round dishes on their tower that I never noticed being there before. It almost seems like what we are referring to as micro bursts are actually digital transmissions that sound like open keys. These micro bursts vary in length of transmission, which further suggests they're sub-audible data transmissions we're hearing. I know the cars must have digital communication in them, as I hear dispatch requesting that the deputies read this or that information sent via CAD. But, that doesn't explain why their dispatch would refer to the micro burst as "interference." If it were a planned data transmission, you would think they would know it's origin. But, perhaps the data transmissions are on a different frequency that is "interfering" with their main channel frequency. Maybe those dishes are incorrectly placed on the tower, causing a coupling effect on their main base frequency, or there is some kind of grounding issue, which may be causing interference from their data transmitters on the main base channel. Again, who knows...but, I'm beginning to think it's not a random interference from skip and/or band conditions, but a defect in the installation procedures for some some new data transmission equipment. Even on 154.6725 I occasionally hear a micro burst, much less often, but it's there, which further suggests that the source of the micro bursts are within their system, which may be why the dispatchers, who have no technical expertise, refer to the bleed over micro bursts as "interference."

 

[stlouisx50]

Well, I see Washington PD on moswin. I do not hear them any longer on VHF. Maybe it's my reception. I heard Fire dispatched still on 154.430,but I don't know if Washington fire is still broadcast on vhf as well as moswin or not.

 

[rbritton1201]

I don't think there are changes occurring in Washington. I think I have heard them recently on their normal VHF channel. I don't monitor the fire service unless there's a major incident, but I don't think there has been a change with Washington Fire either, so maybe it is your reception. But, I could be wrong, and they're in the process of making some changes too.

The Sheriff's Department is in the process of upgrading their 911 dispatching center, a result of a $30,000,000 government grant. The County is trying to convince other agencies that are in the County to subcontract their dispatching services to the County. Politically, I have my doubts the people in Washington will swallow that solicitation, and I have my doubts that will occur in Pacific or Sullivan either. The County already dispatches for St. Clair, Union, New Haven, and Gerald. I know St. Clair pays the County around $10K for these services, and the others probably pay a similar proportional amount based on their respective levels of activity, etc...

These jurisdictions are no different than other political subdivision where politics protects their autonomy and consolidates their own political power. So, I have my doubts that some of these other municipal agencies will buy into the solicitation by the County, giving up their own power and autonomy, especially Washington. But, it would be cheaper, and only time will tell...

 

[stlouisx50]

I don't think there are changes occurring in Washington. I think I have heard them recently on their normal VHF channel. I don't monitor the fire service unless there's a major incident, but I don't think there has been a change with Washington Fire either, so maybe it is your reception. But, I could be wrong, and they're in the process of making some changes too.

The Sheriff's Department is in the process of upgrading their 911 dispatching center, a result of a $30,000,000 government grant. The County is trying to convince other agencies that are in the County to subcontract their dispatching services to the County. Politically, I have my doubts the people in Washington will swallow that solicitation, and I have my doubts that will occur in Pacific or Sullivan either. The County already dispatches for St. Clair, Union, New Haven, and Gerald. I know St. Clair pays the County around $10K for these services, and the others probably pay a similar proportional amount based on their respective levels of activity, etc...

These jurisdictions are no different than other political subdivision where politics protects their autonomy and consolidates their own political power. So, I have my doubts that some of these other municipal agencies will buy into the solicitation by the County, giving up their own power and autonomy, especially Washington. But, it would be cheaper, and only time will tell...

I had only mentioned the changes because I picked up a new talk group last night on the Weldon Springs site, looked it up and it was Washington city. I saw lots of new TG for Washington listed. Was new to me lol.

 

[rbritton1201]

That is good to know...Over time, I expect all agencies will eventually leave VHF and migrate over to the digital modes, which is kind of depressing because the whole digital modes thing complicates everything, but it's an almost certain eventual reality. The digital modes make it much more difficult, if not virtually impossible for the public to monitor their activities, especially if they go encrypted.

Out of one side of their mouths they plead for information from the public when they need it, and out of the other side of their mouths they want the public completely in the dark. I suppose an argument can be made that keeping everyone in the dark with respect to monitoring their activities enhances their effectiveness against the criminal element. But, at what cost? I think the public is entitled to transparency, which monitoring provides. If they need confidentiality, they all have cell phones, data transmissions, etc...So, hopefully, as these agencies migrate to digital modes, the idea of encryption will be rejected by the citizenry. I enjoy monitoring too much to be pushed out, just to make things theoretically easier for "government."

What were the frequencies you noticed that were recently added that referenced Washington PD? Could it be that the site is the Washington MOSWIN site for MSHP, and not specifically Washington PD? Just curious...

I had only mentioned the changes because I picked up a new talk group last night on the Weldon Springs site, looked it up and it was Washington city. I saw lots of new TG for Washington listed. Was new to me lol.

 

[stlouisx50]

I agree with ya 100% , but be careful what you say. They have strict rules discussing the € subject.

Digital is good if you live next to a tower, near a big city with suburbs on the tower, but if you move to rural areas, you might hear 1 site and have 2 subscribers on the site vs hearing 60 miles of vhf. I think that will definitely be the case when I move to SW MO.
It's a pain in the butt to figure out which tower you need per the roads you travel. You can't just go by the county you are in because a) the tower does not cover that part of the county you are in. B) The tower is weak to a scanner c) no tower is close, yet they have the while area on the site, you just are in an area that can't pick it up.
There are too many dead spots with digital. It's close to what monitoring 800mhz back in the day was. Move your antenna 8inches too far and you loose T.

 

[kruser]

What were the frequencies you noticed that were recently added that referenced Washington PD? Could it be that the site is the Washington MOSWIN site for MSHP, and not specifically Washington PD? Just curious...

The City of Washington added several talkgroups on the Moswin system. This includes Fire and Law.
Fire may still simulcast on their old analog frequency especially if they use tone paging.

Look at the Moswin DB page Missouri Statewide Wireless Interoperable Network (MOSWIN) Trunking System, Statewide, Multi-State - Scanner Frequencies under the Franklin County Talkgroups section and you will see all the City of Washington talkgroups listed. Fire tested over a year ago now and was heard testing on the 700 MHz Washington, MO Moswin site 3.45.
The Washington City users will likely be heard mostly on Moswin site 3.45 located in or very near Washington itself but they may also be heard at times on site 3.35 St. Clair 700 MHz and site 3.16 Weldon Spring VHF site which is the site @stlouisx50 saw Washington City show up on.
The County of Franklin may show up on any Moswin site in the state using their Travel talkgroup but their Franklin County All talkgroup is likely restricted to the same sites mentioned above that Washington City may appear on.

So far, the county of Franklin does not appear to be moving to Moswin and will continue using their existing VHF system(s).
It's only Washington City that's making the move.