I just caught up on this thread. I'll dust off the ol' trusty RTL SDR and see if I can evaluate the Lake/Geauga/Cuyahoga stuff for you. Might take some time for data collection.
Futronics UHF Connect Plus
- Thread starter mbstone99
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AtlasFBG2
Member
Did some driving around Sat night. Took along laptop and pro 668 running dsd+ along with Remtronix VU100B and a stubby antenna.
Went to some of the areas on that map that was posted in this thread. When i got 5 bars with the remtronix antenna i switched to the stubby and kept going in the direction of the towers beacon lights till i got 5 bars again.
Was able to find site 4 located in Monroeville. Also found site in Willard but i cant read my writing on that so i will have to go back and recheck Willard.
Also found site 29 control channel.
Went to some of the areas on that map that was posted in this thread. When i got 5 bars with the remtronix antenna i switched to the stubby and kept going in the direction of the towers beacon lights till i got 5 bars again.
Was able to find site 4 located in Monroeville. Also found site in Willard but i cant read my writing on that so i will have to go back and recheck Willard.
Also found site 29 control channel.
You mention that you found a site in Willard but couldn't find the notes -- and you mention you found site 29 control channel.
Is site 29 the site you believe to be willard? Or is Site 29 and Willard two separate locations? If they are two separate locations, what was Willard's site number?
I shot you an email. Please respond when you get a chance.
Thanks
Mike
Good deal. Looking forward to any info you gain about system 182 (or any other CON+ stuff you find). Feel free to email me at my username @gmail.com if you happen upon some System 182 or other CON+ system data from your scanning location.
Of course, for any info that you pin down, please submit it to that particular system in the DB [unless it doesn't exist yet, in which case you can start a new thread about it].
Thanks
Mike
I suspect the Futronics (Ohio) System 182 system looks something like this as of 9-14-2016:
Aside from Oregon, which Davey1 is pretty confident about, everything else up in Toledo area (and I'm guessing there are 4-5 sites grouped up there] is a toss-up. i don't trust most of what is in the DB for anything around the Toledo area with the exception of Site 3 Oregon.
So that leaves Site 5, 8, 9, 10, and 20 up around Toledo area totally up in the air as far as I'm concerned. It is going to take somebody in Toledo/Oregon/Rossford area (somebody with a DMR scanner, SDR software, DSDPlus and some time) to really figure out those sites up in Lucas Co. It's hard to imagine there isnt' somebody up in Toledo interested in figuring that all out.
At this time, based solely upon site neighbors reported by Lorain, Lagrange, Medina and Akron, it doesn't look like Futronics licenses in Cuyahoga [or East of Cuyahoga] are active at this time.
Mike
- Castalia (Erie) WNMU690 WPUD454
- Findlay (Hancock) WNDK593
- Oregon (Lucas) WRJ939 WPMV792 WQIT684 WPWK630 WNNC320
- Unknown - likely Willard (Huron) but possibly West Lodi (Seneca) or Belllvue (Sandusky)
- Unknown
- Unknown - likely Medina (Medina)
- Wooster (Wayne) WQMH834 WQMH833 WPDZ978 WQKK222
- Unknown (I suspect site in DB belongs to the Michigan Futronics 182)
- Toledo - N Irwin (Lucas) WPDZ887 WQAD781 WPUD454
- Toledo - Hill Ave (Lucas) WQKL654
- Fremont (Sandusky) WQNS543 WNNC320
- Berlin Heights (Erie) WPNQ372 WPVM622 WQAE268
- Lima (Allen) WQGL875 WQAE268 WPUD454 WPNQ598
- Mansfield (Richland) WQGL876 WQMH834 WQMH833
- Bucyrus (Crawford) WZA613 WQMH834 WQMH833
- Unknown - either Napoleon (Henry) or Wauseon (Fulton)
- Greenwich (Huron) WQCK781 WQGG664 WQMH834 WQMH833
- Deshler (Henry) WNGV768 WNNC320
- Bowling Green (Wood) WNAB919
- Unknown
- Akron (Summit) WQQT306
- New Riegel (Seneca) WPMT479
- Unknown - most likely Berlin (Holmes) or Nashville (Holmes), less likely Canton (Stark)
- Unknown - most likely Ashland (Ashland), less likely Nashville (Holmes) or Berlin (Holmes), even less likely Canton (Stark)
- Woodsville (Sandusky) WQQP800
- Unknown - likely Lorain (Lorain)
- Clyde (Sandusky) WQWU793
- Crestline (Crawford) WQNE990 WQNC745
- Norwalk (Huron) KQI932 KNJT851 KOR792
- Unknown - likely Lagrange (Lorain)
Aside from Oregon, which Davey1 is pretty confident about, everything else up in Toledo area (and I'm guessing there are 4-5 sites grouped up there] is a toss-up. i don't trust most of what is in the DB for anything around the Toledo area with the exception of Site 3 Oregon.
So that leaves Site 5, 8, 9, 10, and 20 up around Toledo area totally up in the air as far as I'm concerned. It is going to take somebody in Toledo/Oregon/Rossford area (somebody with a DMR scanner, SDR software, DSDPlus and some time) to really figure out those sites up in Lucas Co. It's hard to imagine there isnt' somebody up in Toledo interested in figuring that all out.
At this time, based solely upon site neighbors reported by Lorain, Lagrange, Medina and Akron, it doesn't look like Futronics licenses in Cuyahoga [or East of Cuyahoga] are active at this time.
Mike
Trying to pin down a site I noticed NXDN traffic mixed with the DMR. This is the first time I have encountered something like this. I was sitting on 1 frequency.
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR3 DCC=12 Rate 1/2 Data
+DMR slot2 BS DATA ERR2 DCC=1 Idle
+DMR CACH ERR slot1 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR CACH ERR slot2 BS DATA ERR2 DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR3 DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR CACH ERR slot2 BS DATA ERR3 DCC=1 Idle
Sync:+DMR
+DMR CACH ERR slot1 BS DATA ERR3 DCC=1 Unknown TypeC
Sync:-NXDN96 TB DATA
Sync:-NXDN96 TB DATA
Sync:+DMR
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR3 DCC=1 CSBK
Sync:+DMR
+DMR CACH ERR slot1 BS DATA ERR3 DCC=1 CSBK
Sync:+DMR
+DMR CACH ERR slot1 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 Idle
Sync:+DMR
+DMR CACH ERR slot1 BS DATA DCC=1 Idle
Sync:+NXDN96 TS VOICE e:5r7r6r6m
Sync:+DMR
+DMR CACH ERR slot1 BS DATA ERR3 DCC=1 Idle
Sync:+NXDN96 TB VOICE e:6r5e6r6r
Sync:+DMR
+DMR slot2 BS DATA ERR3 DCC=15 Unknown TypeD
Sync:+DMR
+DMR CACH ERR slot1 BS DATA ERR2 DCC=1 Idle
+DMR CACH ERR slot2 BS DATA ERR3 DCC=11 Unknown TypeB
+DMR CACH ERR slot1 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 Idle
+DMR CACH ERR slot2 BS DATA ERR3 DCC=11 Rate 3/4 Data FEC FAIL
+DMR CACH ERR slot1 BS DATA ERR2 DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR3 DCC=12 Rate 1/2 Data
+DMR slot2 BS DATA ERR2 DCC=1 Idle
+DMR CACH ERR slot1 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR CACH ERR slot2 BS DATA ERR2 DCC=1 Idle
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR3 DCC=1 CSBK
+DMR CACH ERR slot2 BS DATA ERR3 DCC=1 Idle
Sync:+DMR
+DMR CACH ERR slot1 BS DATA ERR3 DCC=1 Unknown TypeC
Sync:-NXDN96 TB DATA
Sync:-NXDN96 TB DATA
Sync:+DMR
+DMR slot1 BS DATA ERR3 DCC=1 CSBK
Sync:+DMR
+DMR CACH ERR slot1 BS DATA ERR3 DCC=1 CSBK
Sync:+DMR
+DMR CACH ERR slot1 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 Idle
Sync:+DMR
+DMR CACH ERR slot1 BS DATA DCC=1 Idle
Sync:+NXDN96 TS VOICE e:5r7r6r6m
Sync:+DMR
+DMR CACH ERR slot1 BS DATA ERR3 DCC=1 Idle
Sync:+NXDN96 TB VOICE e:6r5e6r6r
Sync:+DMR
+DMR slot2 BS DATA ERR3 DCC=15 Unknown TypeD
Sync:+DMR
+DMR CACH ERR slot1 BS DATA ERR2 DCC=1 Idle
+DMR CACH ERR slot2 BS DATA ERR3 DCC=11 Unknown TypeB
+DMR CACH ERR slot1 BS DATA ERR1 DCC=1 Idle
+DMR CACH ERR slot2 BS DATA ERR3 DCC=11 Rate 3/4 Data FEC FAIL
+DMR CACH ERR slot1 BS DATA ERR2 DCC=1 Idle
You should force DMR with the -fr switch on the DSD+ commandline. Entirely possible that you are picking up two different locations, one with DMR and one with NXDN. So better to force DMR.
All voice channels for a particular site should indicate that they are part of System 182 and site ##. They won't indicate LCN when monitoring the VC with DSD+.
Mike
The site and Neighbor list was displaying along with con+ would go away and then come back. That is when I noticed the nxdn/dmr traffic mixing which I have not experienced before
Davey1
Member
I think we've got better information about a couple of the Toledo sites.
Here's what my recent use of DSD+ finds:
Site 9, Irwin Road [WPDZ887]:
LCN 1 is 463.2125 control channel
LCN 2 is 451.600
Site 10, Hill Avenue [WQKL654]:
LCN 1 is 454.075, control channel [not licensed to this site]
LCN 2 is 461.7625
LCN 3 is 461.4875
Some of these frequencies, other than the control channels, used to be on the main page but were transferred to the Wiki previously.
Here's what my recent use of DSD+ finds:
Site 9, Irwin Road [WPDZ887]:
LCN 1 is 463.2125 control channel
LCN 2 is 451.600
Site 10, Hill Avenue [WQKL654]:
LCN 1 is 454.075, control channel [not licensed to this site]
LCN 2 is 461.7625
LCN 3 is 461.4875
Some of these frequencies, other than the control channels, used to be on the main page but were transferred to the Wiki previously.
Hi Dave,
That information makes me feel much more comfortable about those sites.
For sites that are listed in the DB, that you can reach from your location, I'd ask you to check the neighbor list that is broadcast on that site [to see if we have the most update neighbor information for each site]. I realize you can't pick up every site, but it'd be great if you could compare the neighbor list in the DB with the current neighbor list being broadcast for all of the sites you can pick up.
Thanks!
Mike
Davey1
Member
Hi Mike,
The sites that I can hear are Castalia, Findlay, Oregon, Irwin Road, Hill Avenue, Fremont, Bowling Green, Woodville, and Clyde (weak).
Comparing neighbors that I see with those that are in the database I find that Findlay, Oregon, Irwin Road, Hill Avenue and Clyde are the same.
The neighbors I see for Castalia are 3, 11, 12, 27 and 29 (no 4 or 6).
The neighbors I see for Fremont are 1, 22, 25, and 27 (no 4).
The neighbors I see for Bowling Green are 2, 3, 9, 16, and 25 (no 11).
The neighbors I see for Woodville are 3, 11, 19, and 22.
The sites that I can hear are Castalia, Findlay, Oregon, Irwin Road, Hill Avenue, Fremont, Bowling Green, Woodville, and Clyde (weak).
Comparing neighbors that I see with those that are in the database I find that Findlay, Oregon, Irwin Road, Hill Avenue and Clyde are the same.
The neighbors I see for Castalia are 3, 11, 12, 27 and 29 (no 4 or 6).
The neighbors I see for Fremont are 1, 22, 25, and 27 (no 4).
The neighbors I see for Bowling Green are 2, 3, 9, 16, and 25 (no 11).
The neighbors I see for Woodville are 3, 11, 19, and 22.
I've got those neighbors updated in the DB.
You can't hear Site 16 (461.5875) ? That's either Napoleon or Wauseon
m
Davey1
Member
I can't hear Site 16 during the day when I'm at work. However, I should be able to hear it from my home. I will check it as soon as I get a chance.
THanks, Dave. I don't imagine the neighbors on Site 16 have changed, but you never know.
Mike
Unknown Sites as of 9-15-2016
Below are the unknown sites as of 9-15-2016.
Site 4 : Sandusky / Huron / Wyandot / Seneca / Crawford Co area
* likely Willard or West Lodi
Site 5 : Toledo area
Site 6 : likely Cleveland per jdolina (or Lorain)
Site 8 : Toledo area
Site 16 : Napoleon or Wauseon -- this will require somebody to visit the sites for absolute clarification
Site 20 : Toledo area
Site 23 : likely Berlin (in Holmes) - but could be Nasvhille (in Holmes)
Site 24 : likely Ashland, although could be Nasvhille (in Holmes)
Site 26 : likely Medina
jdolina and I have some potential differing thoughts on sites 6 and 26, me basing things solely on site neighbors and jdolina doing drivebys. In the end I imagine jdolina will have the definitive word on Sites 6 and 26.
I need to go to Canton --> Berlin --> Nashville --> Ashland to definitely pin down Sites 23/24.
Mike
Below are the unknown sites as of 9-15-2016.
Site 4 : Sandusky / Huron / Wyandot / Seneca / Crawford Co area
* likely Willard or West Lodi
Site 5 : Toledo area
Site 6 : likely Cleveland per jdolina (or Lorain)
Site 8 : Toledo area
Site 16 : Napoleon or Wauseon -- this will require somebody to visit the sites for absolute clarification
Site 20 : Toledo area
Site 23 : likely Berlin (in Holmes) - but could be Nasvhille (in Holmes)
Site 24 : likely Ashland, although could be Nasvhille (in Holmes)
Site 26 : likely Medina
jdolina and I have some potential differing thoughts on sites 6 and 26, me basing things solely on site neighbors and jdolina doing drivebys. In the end I imagine jdolina will have the definitive word on Sites 6 and 26.
I need to go to Canton --> Berlin --> Nashville --> Ashland to definitely pin down Sites 23/24.
Mike
Davey1
Member
Just curious why we believe Site 8 to be in the Toledo area when it is not a neighbor to Oregon, North Irwin Road, or Hill Avenue.
Because it's neighbors are 3-Oregon, 5-likely Toledo area based upon neighbors, and 20-likely Toledo area based upon neighbors.
Now, when i say likely Toledo area, that would include [in my mind] outside of Ohio and into Michigan, no matter how far into Michigan.
Very difficult to call it John. There are Michigan sites -- see the Futronics (MOTOTURBO) system in the database. Of course, most of the information on that DB entry is unconfirmed or a mishmash or inaccurate information.
Perhaps 8 is outside of Ohio (and in fact there is a license for Futronics in Michigan with that frequency). But we'll probably never know because we don't have _reliable_ sources in Michigan [or haven't yet] order to truly stealth out the Michigan side of things the way you guys in Ohio have done.
5, 8 and 20 are really all up in the air. And I just can't bring myself to type out any more about the confusion that the Ohio vs MIchigan sides of System 182 causes.
Basically, we simply need somebody in Toledo, with a good [RF] vantage point, with the proper tools, ability and time to search 420 and 450/460 mhz for all System 182 control channels.
Mike
Ok took a trip at lunch to 200 public square to find the cuyahoga site. Of course the antennas are on top of the huntington bldg which should make reception good? In the public square area west of the bldg I can hear the chainsaw and my 436 has trouble locking in on the CON+ control channel although seems to lock in and display the site when TG 0 comes up. Which I really think is TG 10000 but displayed incorrectly another topic. I was able to get a lock and 182-26 under the same circumstances with the antenna off once. I am also able to pick up 182-26 from my office with sdr/dsd+ I am less than a mile from the square and can see the bldg out of my window. I do notice that throughout the day I see NEXEDGE traffic mixed in and do have better decode with just dmr set. That said at times I still get the constant stream of DMR data but the CC and the site ID randomly disappear and come back with what appears no change in signal strength. I have logged and heard TG 10000 as well as 7700 (logged) and 13501(garbled) on the site although traffic is very sparse. I have not been able to receive any other 182 sites in the general location withe either setup.
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