Futronics UHF Connect Plus

[mtindor]

Ok took a trip at lunch to 200 public square to find the cuyahoga site. Of course the antennas are on top of the huntington bldg which should make reception good? In the public square area west of the bldg I can hear the chainsaw and my 436 has trouble locking in on the CON+ control channel although seems to lock in and display the site when TG 0 comes up. Which I really think is TG 10000 but displayed incorrectly another topic. I was able to get a lock and 182-26 under the same circumstances with the antenna off once. I am also able to pick up 182-26 from my office with sdr/dsd+ I am less than a mile from the square and can see the bldg out of my window. I do notice that throughout the day I see NEXEDGE traffic mixed in and do have better decode with just dmr set. That said at times I still get the constant stream of DMR data but the CC and the site ID randomly disappear and come back with what appears no change in signal strength. I have logged and heard TG 10000 as well as 7700 (logged) and 13501(garbled) on the site although traffic is very sparse. I have not been able to receive any other 182 sites in the general location withe either setup.

John,

Forcing DMR will only stop the pesky NXDN notations in the output. It will not stop the CC/site ID from randomly disappearing [when a stronger NXDN signal overpowers it]. The NXDN sig is just walking over / colliding so badly that DSD+ can't pull the DMR signal during that period.

I just wanted you to use -fr to save you from having NXDN trash in your output.

From the location at public square or from your office, does your scanner / DSD+ actually show a super strong signal as it should though? With antenna on scanner or on SDR at your office, the signal should be off the charters [nearly] in SDR# and you should have many bars on your scanner.

I'm guessing you do, but I'd like to know anyway.

Either:

1. You are getting an NXDN sig on the same freq [i would say probably not likely UNLESS -26 is not Cuyahoga and you are pulling it in distantly along with a stronger NxDN sig].

OR

2. You'v egot a strong / stronger NXDN signal on a nearby frequency and the strong signal hitting your scanner / SDR# are just mixing to form DMR+NXDN on the same apparent freq.

Need to be sure you absolutely have a super strong signal. If you don't have a super strong signal on 182-26 from the square or your office, with the antenna attached, you really have to consider the notion that 182-26 may be more distant and not actually public square.

Mike

 

[OHIOSCAN]

https://app.box.com/s/rcu95z598to6rjeeunjmu60vcj7hsc76

Link for 2014 - 16 Futronics ULS

The 422.2375 in Lorain CO on DSD+ showed 4 Ch's today so far, not real busy

 

[mtindor]

https://app.box.com/s/rcu95z598to6rjeeunjmu60vcj7hsc76

Link for 2014 - 16 Futronics ULS

The 422.2375 in Lorain CO on DSD+ showed 4 Ch's today so far, not real busy

Ok on 4 Ch's. So at least four frequencies are part of that. That's good to know.

Now the trick is figgering out what those frequencies are. Probably should look at the Lagrange license for starters.

Here is a Futronics site license/frequency list (for all sites with known locations). By end of tonight I'll hvae ALL Futronics 420/450/460 licenses on it.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10TGDGRaYYJfy-Nvhxk7iJRsyfBYQ8_BcKtwMEY8aL-o/edit?usp=sharing

Obviously that doesn't show 454 licenses -- 99.999% of the time the part 22 licenses are useless anyway.

But for anybody searching around for new sites / freqs that may be part of System 182, they shoudl search 422-425, 450-455, 460-465.

Mike



Mike

 

[jdolina]

Super strong no the only super strong DMR signal I get is from site 131 but the signal strengths is consistent with the DMR signals from the Jack Casino, Huntington ops and others around the square from my SRD/DSD setup. I have a cheapo usb dongle with the tv tuner antenna. I have a known DMR system across the street that has about the same signal strength. Even with 3 layers of copper foil...yes I know I need to upgrade to 5....I can barely get the Casino or others with the 436 stock antenna and get the chainsaw for 182-26 but no lock

From my setup at home Lorain county much better antennas sites 30 and 6 come in super strong Site 26 comes in but weaker.

My next trip will be the lorain site hopefully this weekend.

 

[mtindor]

Super strong no the only super strong DMR signal I get is from site 131 but the signal strengths is consistent with the DMR signals from the Jack Casino, Huntington ops and others around the square from my SRD/DSD setup. I have a cheapo usb dongle with the tv tuner antenna. I have a known DMR system across the street that has about the same signal strength. Even with 3 layers of copper foil...yes I know I need to upgrade to 5....I can barely get the Casino or others with the 436 stock antenna and get the chainsaw for 182-26 but no lock

From my setup at home Lorain county much better antennas sites 30 and 6 come in super strong Site 26 comes in but weaker.

My next trip will be the lorain site hopefully this weekend.

Ok. I'll add 26 as Cuyahoga then. Thanks John!

Mike

 

[mtindor]

Super strong no the only super strong DMR signal I get is from site 131 but the signal strengths is consistent with the DMR signals from the Jack Casino, Huntington ops and others around the square from my SRD/DSD setup. I have a cheapo usb dongle with the tv tuner antenna. I have a known DMR system across the street that has about the same signal strength. Even with 3 layers of copper foil...yes I know I need to upgrade to 5....I can barely get the Casino or others with the 436 stock antenna and get the chainsaw for 182-26 but no lock

From my setup at home Lorain county much better antennas sites 30 and 6 come in super strong Site 26 comes in but weaker.

My next trip will be the lorain site hopefully this weekend.

John,

What is the frequency of the control channel for System 131? -- Disregard, I see that system is already in the DB as B&C Comm.

Mike

 

[budevans]

Futronics Cuyahoga?

I saw the posts regarding Futronics Cuyahoga Con Plus site, freq 422.2125. So I added it to my 436. But I am not getting any signal strength reading. No bars.

Note: I am aware that the 436 is somewhat lacking in UHF sensitivity.

Along those lines, I have had B&C Comms Con Plus site loaded in my 436. I get 3 to 5 bars (it fluctuates). I monitor traffic on it without issue.

Both B&C and Futronics are shown as located at Public Square. The Futronics antenna is just slightly higher than the B&C. Both are showing power at 100 watts.

Just for grins I added the other 4 frequencies listed on FCC license KQI932, 422.23750, 422.26250, 422.38750, 422.46250. Still no signal strength.

For a rough reference I am located just south of the GCRCN Brooklyn Hts. tower on Schaaf road, approximately 4 to 5 miles from public square. I should be getting a pretty solid signal.

Something I missed??

 

[mtindor]

I saw the posts regarding Futronics Cuyahoga Con Plus site, freq 422.2125. So I added it to my 436. But I am not getting any signal strength reading. No bars.

Note: I am aware that the 436 is somewhat lacking in UHF sensitivity.

Along those lines, I have had B&C Comms Con Plus site loaded in my 436. I get 3 to 5 bars (it fluctuates). I monitor traffic on it without issue.

Both B&C and Futronics are shown as located at Public Square. The Futronics antenna is just slightly higher than the B&C. Both are showing power at 100 watts.

Just for grins I added the other 4 frequencies listed on FCC license KQI932, 422.23750, 422.26250, 422.38750, 422.46250. Still no signal strength.

For a rough reference I am located just south of the GCRCN Brooklyn Hts. tower on Schaaf road, approximately 4 to 5 miles from public square. I should be getting a pretty solid signal.

Something I missed??

Bud,

That is concerning to me. Of course, you do need to keep in mind that whatever site Site 26 is (and John says it's Public Square), there are ffour frequencies associated with it. We only know of one of them, and it happens to be the requency that has one of the timeslots occupied by the control channel data.

You need to program it into your scanner as a Connect Plus system with Site 26 as oneof the connect plus sites.

You also need to try and actually listen to it. YOu should be familiar with what a DMR signal sounds like . If you tune to 422.2125, you say you don't get any bars - but can you hear a DMR control channel if you listen?

Based upon what you describe, it does sound like you should expect to hear the site if it's in public square.

UHF sensitivity on a 436 is not the issue. It's sensitive enough. IT's just that when the battery is in it, the batter generates interference that causes issues on 450-470 mhz.

So, even though you may not be able to decode something, you should still see some bars of signal strength.

At any rate, you need to open the squelch and see if you hear the DMR control channel. If you don't, well, I don't know what to say about it.

Mike

 

[budevans]

No joy for Futronics Cuyahoga

I setup both digital scanners (PSR-500, BCD436HP) to scan the 422 to 423 Mhz range. After several passes with no indication of signal on 422.2125, I manually set both scanners on 422.2125 with the no squelch set. All I heard was static. No digital noise and no signal strength indications.

Just for grins I did a scan of a larger portion of the 400 Mhz band. Heard a lot of analog traffic and multiple digital (control channel) sounds further up the band in the 424, 450 and 460 Mhz regions. The 436 stopped on the B&C Coms Con Plus control channel. Displaying system information. Just a little further down the band I monitored B&C TRBO TG3007 Kufner's towing on voice frequencies 451.8375 and 451.8875. So I know the scanner was working properly.

At this point I don't know what tell you regarding Futronics Cleveland Cuyahoga Site 26. I have it setup in my 436 as a Favorite (just like the B&C Com) and I'll continue to keep monitoring.

 

[OHIOSCAN]

==================================================================
422.2375 LaGrange Site TG logged
CH-1
CH-2
CH-3
CH-4
1000 BASE
10002
10067
10068
10075
10077
10087
10088
10089
10090
11500 BASE
11512
11513
11515
20500 BASE
20517
20518
20532
20541
23000 BASE
23002
23010
23011
23101
23105
23106
23107
23111
23112
23117
23118
23119
23121
23122
23140
23121
===================================================================

 

[mtindor]

==================================================================
422.2375 LaGrange Site TG logged

That's quite a large number of talkgroups for that site. It's obviously quite busy. Do you have a DMR scanner? Are you using SDR software? It's probably about time to try and start figuring out what some of the other frequencies on the site are, if you have the means.

What's your setup?

Mike

 

[jdolina]

Bud,

Hopefully I can put this to rest this weekend with visits to lorain and medina. It is possible no cuyahoga site is active and some weird tropo is going on. I can say in Cuyahoga where I am with the setup I have it is hard to pick up sites in the general vicinity. To pick up anything coming from Lorain would be weird although open lake north west you never know. The 436 got a lock on site 26 in front of the huntington bldg no antenna. I know with DSD I have seen nxdn traffic mixed in which may be the reason for the 436 not locking I know dsd goes in and out. If cuyahoga does not exists with the neighbors defined then it is possible Site 26 is lorain and Site 6 is Medina. My plan is to visit Lorain today and possibly Medina tomorrow.

 

[jdolina]

Just returned from the Lorain site and 182-26 is definitely the Lorain site. What makes it strange is I am actually closer to this site where I am in lorain. Site 30 (LaGrange) and 6 (?) come in stronger. Hopefully I can get to Medina tomorrow and verify that site.

Sorry for the confusion on site 26 I was just posting my findings. I still find it odd that site 26 (Lorain) comes through in Cleveland with a sub-par antenna.

 

[AtlasFBG2]

I can pickup site 26 on the south east side of Sandusky with a Remtronix vu100b handheld in my van. I knew it had to be closer than cleveland.

 

[mtindor]

You guys really are kicking *** with your detective work!

mike

 

[OHIOSCAN]

Setup

That's quite a large number of talkgroups for that site. It's obviously quite busy. Do you have a DMR scanner? Are you using SDR software? It's probably about time to try and start figuring out what some of the other frequencies on the site are, if you have the means.

What's your setup?

Mike

For DMR I use DSD+ along with a TRX-1 & 436, still learning about DMR so I will add what I track down. Also run SDRSHARP w/DSD+

Mike

 

[mtindor]

For DMR I use DSD+ along with a TRX-1 & 436, still learning about DMR so I will add what I track down. Also run SDRSHARP w/DSD+

Mike

I don't know if the TRX has an LCN finder or not. But, might I suggest that you add / create the System 182 Futronics CON+ system as a system in your 436 and then add the Lagrange site with the following frequencies:

422.2125 - don't add this since it's the CC at Lorain
422.2375
422.2625 - dont add this since it's the CC at [likely] Medina
422.3875
422.4625
463.275
422.775
424.550

Once you got them all in there, you can run the LCN Finder on the BCD436HP, letting it monitor that specific system for a day or so, and It'll find the active frequencies and find the LCNs for the frequencies. You'd want o make sure you program all those frequencies in as Color Code 1 though, and probably use high numbers for the LCNs (11-15) for the non-CC and LCN 1 for the CC.

If you do that and are able to ascertain LCNs, please share the info

If you need any help / have any questions, feel free to ask here or shoot me an email at my username @gmail.com

Mike

 

[jdolina]

Have another frequency for Site 6 so far only DMR BS DATA 451.9875

 

[Davey1]

Concerning Site 16, Wauseon (or Napoleon):
I was asked to verify the neighbors for this site, compared to those listed in the database. They are, indeed, the same as listed in the database: 5, 9, 13, 18, 19, when listening to the control channel on 461.5875.

 

[AtlasFBG2]

461.825 is site 20 neighbors 3,5,8,9,10

Site is located just north of Monroe,MI Verified with no antenna on scanner at tower location.

I am betting site 8 is Detroit and site 5 is Ann Arbor. I may check Ann Arbor next weekend.