glitchy P25 scanner, or do I just not understand how it work?

[safety3rd]

Good morning all,
I'm a volunteer firefighter outside of Charlotte and my department has picked up a couple of Unication G5 pagers to experiment with. I've been loading in a ton of VIPER sites and talk groups to match our mutual aid area. I've also loaded in all the USAI sites and the CFD/Meck fire talk groups. I'm running into weird problems with the G5 and trunking and I don't know if it's the pager being glitchy, or if I just don't understand how these networks work.

Every once-in-a-while when I'm in my own county (on VIPER network) and my department switches to a tac channel, and I switch channels on my pager to follow them, I get nothing. I've been told that "If you're sitting between the transmitting radio and the dispatch center, the pager will catch the signal. But if the transmitting radio hits off a different tower then the one you're on you'll never hear it." I'm not knowledgeable enough to know if there's truth to that.

In a similar fashion, if I'm at work (in NE Charlotte) I can listen to CFD as long as my pager is hitting the Mecklenburg Simulcast site of the UASI. But, if my pager switches to the Cabarrus Simulcast site then everything goes silent.

Also, with the VIPER network should I be able to listen to my own county when I'm out of the county?

Is this all just a matter of me expecting a Unication G5 to do something it's not intended to do? I've programmed in all primary and alternate control channels for VIPER (in this area at least) and UASI.

 

[jake_Braker]

I've noticed the way UASI is set up, you can only listen to Charlotte/Mecklenburg talkgroups on the Mecklenburg Simulcast, Gastonia on Gastonia, etc etc. So I recommend setting up your Mecklenburg positions to the Meck Simulcast ONLY.
I can try to assist where I can

 

[jake_Braker]

Keep your UASI sites separate and you can combine your VIPER sites

 

[safety3rd]

Thanks jake_braker! This would make sense. So that's what the various "mutual aid" talk groups would be for then? They're the only ones intended to be heard outside of the local site? At least for the UASI anyways.

 

[jake_Braker]

Also, with the VIPER network should I be able to listen to my own county when I'm out of the county?

I'm not 100% how viper has it setup, but I can listen to Gaston County until I hit Cabarrus or Union. So I assume it's one county out of your home county

 

[drayd48]

For viper, you are pretty correct. Unless you have an actual radio that affiliates to that site traffic is not guaranteed. A pager doesn’t affiliate so unless the radio affiliates to that site on that specific channel that tower won’t carry the channel. For roaming, all the counties specific channels can roam one county outside the “home” county. But once again you have to have a radio affiliated to do that. A pager won’t do it. For UASI, I would simply just program your pager for the Mecklenburg county towers when you’re listening to Mecklenburg county channels. That’s what I do on my pager.

 

[safety3rd]

For viper, you are pretty correct. Unless you have an actual radio that affiliates to that site traffic is not guaranteed. A pager doesn’t affiliate so unless the radio affiliates to that site on that specific channel that tower won’t carry the channel. For roaming, all the counties specific channels can roam one county outside the “home” county. But once again you have to have a radio affiliated to do that. A pager won’t do it. For UASI, I would simply just program your pager for the Mecklenburg county towers when you’re listening to Mecklenburg county channels. That’s what I do on my pager.

Ah ha! I had a feeling the fact that the network doesn't realize the pager exists (since it doesn't have an ID) would come into play. That would explain why the radios are so much more capable because they have an identifier and can "ping" (I know I'm not using correct terminology) the system to get the talkgroup it needs. So, I guess as far as VIPER goes it's the luck of the draw whether or not my pager will "hear" what's going on in the neighboring county if there isn't another radio also asking for it.

Jake, I'll take your advice and split-out the UASI simulcasts.

 

[KB4SHP]

Like was said before I would only do the towers in your county for Fire Department use cause the G 5 could be picking up a tower from another county and you may not hear the call since there is no radio affiliation with the site it locked on. If you have any questions feel free to ask I have had G 5 since they were launched.

 

[safety3rd]

Like was said before I would only do the towers in your county for Fire Department use cause the G 5 could be picking up a tower from another county and you may not hear the call since there is no radio affiliation with the site it locked on. If you have any questions feel free to ask I have had G 5 since they were launched.

Thanks for all the insight guys. I knew this community would make quick work of my question.
yodermans, if I understand your suggestion correctly, it would be similar to what was suggested for the UASI. Instead of setting up the VIPER system to do a trunked scan of all sites, set up sub-systems with only the towers in the county of interest?

 

[tvengr]

The Unication pagers are absolutely excellent at what they do. I have two G5's. The pagers are very limited in that you can scan only one site or system at a time. What you would have to do is set up each county as a separate system, using only the site for that county, and place each system (county) on a separate knob position. The advantage of scanners is that you can scan multiple sites, counties, and systems at the same time as long as they are within range. All of the sites in the Charlotte UASI system are simulcast except for Mooresville in Iredell County. For that reason, I would recommend a Uniden SDS100 If you should decide to go the scanner route. Also, a Remtronix REM-820S antenna would be a great improvement over the stock antenna for the 700 and 800 MHz frequencies. I use the SDS100 also.

 

[safety3rd]

What you would have to do is set up each county as a separate system, using only the site for that county, and place each system (county) on a separate knob position. The advantage of scanners is that you can scan multiple sites, counties, and systems at the same time as long as they are within range.

Iredell County, for example...there are 3 VIPER sites in the county (Fox Mtn, Barium Spgs, Mooresville), and 2 just outside (Sheffield, Riverbend Rd). If I were to setup a system for Iredell, would I only program in the 3 in-county sites? Or should I also include the 2 just outside where units working in the county would realistically be closer to those sites?

 

[jake_Braker]

What you would have to do is set up each county as a separate system, using only the site for that county, and place each system (county) on a separate knob position. The advantage of scanners is that you can scan multiple sites, counties, and systems at the same time as long as they are within range.

This I would require for UASI and only recommend for Viper. If you're listening to SHP on viper, you can set up a zone or two of your troop or troops around (So Meck, I would have Trp H, Trp F and Trp E) running a statewide list of viper like I have posted before. It has all the sites currently on the system and it'll jump to the next site when you leave coverage. So let's say you are driving I-85N, you are connected to Charlotte, then you move out of range and it'll connect to (more than likely) Huntersville or Concord.

 

[jake_Braker]

I meant to add this into the last message but my fingers moved faster than my brain lol

All of the sites in the Charlotte UASI system are simulcast except for Mooresville in Iredell County. For that reason, I would recommend a Uniden SDS100 If you should decide to go the scanner route. Also, a Remtronix REM-820S antenna would be a great improvement over the stock antenna for the 700 and 800 MHz frequencies. I use the SDS100 also.

It usually depends, the G4/5 have done amazing on simulcast environments far better than my 100 in my opinion and personal observations. I carry my scanner in my backpack if I ever get the chance to stop and see if there's anything new around me (like earlier, i was at the airport and just scanned the UHF band for any FleetTalk sites.) And I use my pager to run SHP driving to and from the airport and sitting there, I'll have it sit on CFD just to hear if a airport call goes out.
To each their own, but that's just my thoughts.

 

[RaleighGuy]

If you're listening to SHP on viper, you can set up a zone or two of your troop or troops around (So Meck, I would have Trp H, Trp F and Trp E) running a statewide list of viper like I have posted before. It has all the sites currently on the system and it'll jump to the next site when you leave coverage.

This isn't the best setup for some areas though, compared to setting up a different tower on different knob channels. Here in Raleigh we have three main towers all in range, and while there is some overlap there is a lot of different traffic on each tower. My scanning of towers locks on the lowest frequency tower (in this case West Raleigh 10+ miles away when the Training Ctr Twr is a mile or two away). Without having the towers separated I couldn't listen to the tower of choice, which it sounded in the OP the poster wants to do.

 

[jake_Braker]

That is fair. I haven't been near the Raleigh area so I can't really speak about what would be the best setup over there, I just have it set up for the CLT Metro area where H1 is on the Gaston Simulcast only, H5, all of trp H, F, E and G are all in my statewide site list. Never really gone further out of my little bubble than Concord lol

 

[safety3rd]

Ok, I had a weird incidence this morning with my G5. I was at home and my department responded to a call about a mile from my house. They went to a tac channel, but when I switched over, I couldn't hear anything. I know there was traffic because it was a pretty big call. The only thing I can think of, is the call was a mile CLOSER to where our dispatch center is. At my house I normally hit the Huntersville tower (which I was this morning). So, if they happened to be closer to another tower, would that explain why I couldn't pick them up? I haven't made the adjustments to the VIPER program as suggest above yet.

 

[jake_Braker]

Are you with a Meck county station or a department with a county using viper?

 

[safety3rd]

Are you with a Meck county station or a department with a county using viper?

VIPER county.

 

[jake_Braker]

I'm trying to think, I wonder if it's because you were connected to the Huntersville site and they switched to a different one, maybe nobody was affiliated to the tac channel on Huntersville if that makes any sense. You won't really hear channels if someone isn't affiliated on that site with the channel open on their radio

 

[safety3rd]

How good is the receiving capability of the G5? Should I setup my in-county zone to only hit off the tower closest to our dispatch center (13 miles from my house as the crow flies)?