GMRS exit strategy: Going to 900MHz DTRs and DLRs

[Chickenhawk56]

That sounds about right. FW has added a few new features over the years but performance has always stayed the same.

Gen 1 radios all had fixed antennas.

Gen 2 added the management functions of the 650 to the 410, a replaceable 3 1/2" stubby antenna to the 550; plus a larger capacity battery, 1-hour charger and 7" half-wave antenna to the 650.

Gen 3 added the 7" antenna and 1-hour charger to the 550.

Firmware generally added new features and new groups to most models. Probably the biggest change - at least for me - from gen 2 firmware to gen 3 firmware, was the ability to control the volume of the handshake beep. I always found it irritating, and was much happier when I updated the firmware to gen 3 and I could reduce the volme of the handhshake tone.

Incidentally, it is possible to update all models to the latest firmware, but it takes a special cable and special software. Other experienced users have even found a way to go all the way from gen 1 firmware to the latest, but it requires an intermediate firmware upgrade. The flash cable is also very hard to find thee days. (I had to borrow one from a very knowledgable and helpful colleague who happened to live in the same country as me.)

Motorola has had THREE different DTR chargers over the years. The first 3-hour charger had a flat AC adapter and you could fold the AC prongs into the body The second version did not use folding prongs. Curiously, it was sold for a time as a 1-hour charger, but I have both and they are both rated the same output voltage and 350 mA charging output. The latest version is round and you can wrap the cord around the AC adapter. It seems to be a true 1-hour charger, with charging rates of 900 mA output.

The shorter 3" stubby and longer 7" half-wave antenna, plus the larger capacity battery are all easy to order these days. The larger capacity battery, originally designed for the 650, fits without any modification inside any of the three DTR models.

In head-to-head antenna tests in my dense urban neighborhood, the fixed antenna on the 410 was about a block shorter than the 3" stubby. The 7" added about a block more distance over the 3" stubby. The DLR was only about 20 to 30 feet shorter distance than a DTR with the longer 7" antenna. Total distance, with one radio inside my car inside a wood-frame garage, and the others attached to my belt, was about 20 blocks. Because it was digital, sound quality was always 100% for as long as I had a signal. The closest I could come with a business radio on VHF or UHF was about 18 to 19 blocks, and at that distance, the transmission was hard to understand.

 

[n1das]

Just grouping DTR and DLR information in one place.....

Motorola DTR information:
https://www.motorolasolutions.com/e...adios/on-site-business-radios/dtr-series.html
https://www.motorolasolutions.com/e...os/portable-radios/dtr650.html#tabproductinfo
Professional Radios
Motorola DTR Radios - Start Here
Chickenhawk's excellent DTR review: Motorola DTR550 detailed review - Two Way Radio Forum

Motorola DLR information:
https://www.motorolasolutions.com/e...business-radios/dlr-series-digital-radio.html
Chickenhawk's excellent DLR review: NEW - Motorola DLR series - rugged, licence-free, high-quality digital radios - Two Way Radio Forum
New DLR radios - compatible with DTR

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

There is a company that sells a DTR repeater. Does anyone know how this is done and if the firmware modifications required are available?

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

 

[n1das]

There is a company that sells a DTR repeater. Does anyone know how this is done and if the firmware modifications required are available?

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

Cane Wireless - DRX digital repeater

No DTR firmware mods are required to use a DTR on one of these repeaters. The DLRs can be programmed to work on one of these repeaters too.

The DTR repeater is basically something cobbled together from a pair of DTR radios. No license is required for the repeater since it's transmitting at 1W using FHSS like the DTRs normally do. While it's easy to take a pair of DTRs and patch the speaker output of one to the mic input of the other, the secret sauce in the Caine Wireless product addresses how to control the two radios. The instructions in the installation guide specifically mentions that the DTRs used in the repeater have special programming and warns against replacing these with a pair of standard DTRs.

Selecting the right location for the repeater can be tricky. Usually it's set up at the fringe of coverage in between two overlapping areas to be covered. The normal ~ 0.5 second audio delay between DTR radios gets doubled to approximately a full second when using the repeater from what I've read. I think you would talk into it on one hopset (aka channel) and it talks out on another hopset (channel) on the second DTR radio. So radios at one area of coverage would use one channel and radios in the other area of coverage would use another channel. I think it would work in both directions but only one direction at a time. Since it's based on a pair of DTRs it will only work on a single public or private group since it has to be dedicated to that group. Additional groups require one additional repeater for each group. At $1499 a piece it can get expensive real fast.

Cool stuff.

 

[n1das]

I found a few interesting things from reading the DRX installation guide.

The DTR Range Extender (DRX) kit uses two Motorola DTR™ Series digital radios to receive (RX) and retransmit (TX) a single public or private group. Additional DTR repeater kits are required to repeat each additional public or private group.

CAUTION! The radios used in the DRX kit contains special programming and settings to allow it to operate as a repeater. Do NOT replace the radios in the DRX RX and TX units with standard DTR radios!

Note: The DTR Range Extender kit will only repeat ONE Public or Private group (Private contacts will NOT be repeated but can still connect directly from radio to radio). Additional DRX kits will be needed to extend coverage or to repeat additional groups.

A few highlights about programming a DRX....

PROGRAMMING
Note: The DTR Range Extender kits are default programmed to operate on Public 5 (Channel 1; Group 5). You do not need to program the DTR repeater kits if your portable units are also set to use the default Public 5 Group.

The DRX kit can be programmed using the standard DTR radio Computer Programming Software (CPS) available from Motorola at http://www.motorolasolutions.com

Note: You will need a DTR programming cable p/n 0105950U15 to connect the unit to your computer for programming.

The programming cable needed to program the DRX is the same progamming cable used to program the DTRs.

It appears that both DTR units are programmed the same, using only one hopset for a single public or private group.

NOTE: Both Repeater RX and TX units must be programmed with the same group settings as the portable radio for the repeater kit to function properly.

NOTE: The repeater RX and TX unit IDs should be set to operate on the same channel number as the group. Ex: If the Repeater Group is set to CH3 and Group ID56, then the repeater unit ID (RPTR RX/TX contact) should also
be set to operate on CH3.

A note about daisy chaining multiple repeaters....

Note: Multiple repeater kits can be programmed on the same talk group for increased coverage or different talk groups to repeat multiple conversations. When installing multiple DTR repeater kits they should be separated at least 20ft from each other for optimal performance. “ Daisy-chaining” repeater kits, although possible, is not recommended as this degrades audio quality and increases the audio delay.

It seems that only one hopset is needed for the repeater to function. No special programming is needed in a DTR radio to work with a DRX. I was thinking it might receive on one hopset while transmitting on another. It looks like it transmits on the same hopset it is receiving on. FHSS makes it possible to do this.

Cane Wireless - DRX digital repeater

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

I found a few interesting things from reading the DRX installation guide.
(snip)
It seems that only one hopset is needed for the repeater to function. No special programming is needed in a DTR radio to work with a DRX. I was thinking it might receive on one hopset while transmitting on another. It looks like it transmits on the same hopset it is receiving on. FHSS makes it possible to do this.

Cane Wireless - DRX digital repeater

That makes it all the more enticing.

 

[Tech1]

I have a GMRS license that expires in 2020, when is this change going to happen ?

 

[n1das]

I have a GMRS license that expires in 2020, when is this change going to happen ?

Nobody knows for sure, except maybe a few inside the FCC.

The FCC shelved the NPRM from 2010 but it's still an open proceeding and the FCC could act on it at any time. I think it's not a matter of IF, but WHEN the FCC decides to act on it. One thing the FCC noted in the NPRM was that they were looking closely at how people actually use GMRS today compared to years ago. The growth of people using GMRS in recent years has been due to the millions of unlicensed bubble pack users and not due to licensed users with high powered mobiles and repeaters. I've been GMRS-licensed since 1992 and I witnessed the creation of FRS followed by the invasion of the 22-channel bubble packs. The FCC was considering in the NPRM whether the public would be better served if GMRS were made into an unlicensed bubble pack only service. The proposed changes would more or less mirrors Canada's rules if adopted. IMHO the genie is already out of the bottle so I say it's just a matter of time before it happens.

While I "graduated" to 900MHz with the DTRs and DLRs, I am staying GMRS-licensed as long as GMRS remains a licensed service and I recommend others do the same. Licensing counts as representation to the FCC in rulemaking proceedings affecting licensed users. I still have GMRS capability with Part 90/95 commercial gear. What's changed for me is I migrated all of my local on-site simplex activities to 900MHz with the DTRs and DLRs and they have been working excellent.

The prospect of GMRS being castrated and made into an unlicensed bubble pack only service caused me to look at alternatives and technologies that might work better. I want to use only professional grade equipment and also wanted an all digital solution. The DTRs and DLRs fit the bill very nicely.

 

[Tech1]

When this change takes place, what happens to my License and my Radio's ?

 

[Tech1]

Nobody knows except maybe a few inside the FCC.


Why do people on this web site know about this, if its top secret ?

 

[Project25_MASTR]

Nobody knows except maybe a few inside the FCC.


Why do people on this web site know about this, if its top secret ?

All the members of this site whom are knowledgeable in the subject know about it is what's public domain. So far everything provided is public record.

So I totally found two brand new DTR650's (old demo radios) in the junk pile at the office today. I may have to see if I can't obtain the missing pieces and play with them some.

 

[Tech1]

I was just curious to know.

 

[n1das]

That makes it all the more enticing.

Yes! If only the DRX wasn't so d@mned expensive. While I was able to justify getting 6 factory brand new DTR650 radios, multi-unit charger (MUC), a pair of speaker mics, and a programming cable, I can't justify a getting DRX repeater....yet. It would be cool to play with one though.

 

[n1das]

All the members of this site whom are knowledgeable in the subject know about it is what's public domain. So far everything provided is public record.

What W5PKY said.

So I totally found two brand new DTR650's (old demo radios) in the junk pile at the office today. I may have to see if I can't obtain the missing pieces and play with them some.

OK cool! Since mine are long term keepers I went for all new equipment instead of taking chances with used equipment. I went to the DTRs after using a pair of DLRs for the past year and loving them. For many DTR users the DTRs are almost too much radio for them and the DLRs are the answer to that and they make sense for the target market. I went the other way where I went from a new model (DLR1060) to a 10 year old model (DTR650) because I outgrew the DLRs. The DLRs worked so well that I decided to move up to the DTRs. I sold my DLRs to a ham friend and he loves them. IMHO the DTRs were ahead of their time when they came out 10 years ago.

If you can get them powered up, simply do the factory reset procedure and you can use them with their factory default programming. No programming is needed to use them as they come out of the box. Customizing features and setting up private contacts and private groups is where you need the CPS and it's a free download from Motorola. The DTRs and DLRs use the same CPS that all of Motorola's business radios use (RDX series, RM series, CLS series, etc.). The programming cable is readily available online for about $45.

Good luck.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

What W5PKY said.



OK cool! Since mine are long term keepers I went for all new equipment instead of taking chances with used equipment. I went to the DTRs after using a pair of DLRs for the past year and loving them. For many DTR users the DTRs are almost too much radio for them and the DLRs are the answer to that and they make sense for the target market. I went the other way where I went from a new model (DLR1060) to a 10 year old model (DTR650) because I outgrew the DLRs. The DLRs worked so well that I decided to move up to the DTRs. I sold my DLRs to a ham friend and he loves them. IMHO the DTRs were ahead of their time when they came out 10 years ago.

If you can get them powered up, simply do the factory reset procedure and you can use them with their factory default programming. No programming is needed to use them as they come out of the box. Customizing features and setting up private contacts and private groups is where you need the CPS and it's a free download from Motorola. The DTRs and DLRs use the same CPS that all of Motorola's business radios use (RDX series, RM series, CLS series, etc.). The programming cable is readily available online for about $45.

Good luck.

I'll look into it. I work for a MSS and these were brand new "demo" radios that just never really caught on locally. Still have the screen protectant film. Missing the batteries (got recycled if I had to guess), battery doors, and antennas. All easy to source. Have several serial programming cables for them.


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[n1das]

I'll look into it. I work for a MSS and these were brand new "demo" radios that just never really caught on locally. Still have the screen protectant film. Missing the batteries (got recycled if I had to guess), battery doors, and antennas. All easy to source. Have several serial programming cables for them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sounds like those DTRs have probably never been used or even powered up. They may still be at their factory default programming. If so, they are usable right out of the box on Public groups 1-5 on hopset/channel 1. These public talkgroups map directly to channels 1-5 in the DLRs at their factory default programming. If you can scrounge up some batteries and a charger for them you can find out if they will work. I bet they will power up and work and if they haven't been beaten up and are still mint condition.

Good luck.

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[JASII]

GMRS Exit Strategy: Going To 900MHz DTRs And DLRs

I am just wondering if anybody here does texting with their DTRs and/or DLRs. If so,

-How Many Of You Use These To Text(SMS)?

-Do You Use The Quick Notes?

-What Does It Mean In The Manual 5 Quick Notes (15 Available)?

-I Bought My DTR550s Second Hand And They Have Business Notes Stored.

-Should I Do A Master Re-Set On These?


Update:

I did the factory reset. I see now that there are 5 pre-set Quick Notes. I am starting to brainstorm on what the other 10 Quick Notes should be. Or, should I assume that I can actually change all of them? If so, what do you find to be your most helpful Quick Notes?

My Pre-Set Quick Notes are:

-Can you meet today?

-I can't take your call right now.

-No.

-On my way.

-Yes.

 

[n1das]

I am just wondering if anybody here does texting with their DTRs and/or DLRs. If so,

-How Many Of You Use These To Text(SMS)?

-Do You Use The Quick Notes?

-What Does It Mean In The Manual 5 Quick Notes (15 Available)?

-I Bought My DTR550s Second Hand And They Have Business Notes Stored.

-Should I Do A Master Re-Set On These?


Update:

I did the factory reset. I see now that there are 5 pre-set Quick Notes. I am starting to brainstorm on what the other 10 Quick Notes should be. Or, should I assume that I can actually change all of them? If so, what do you find to be your most helpful Quick Notes?

My Pre-Set Quick Notes are:

-Can you meet today?

-I can't take your call right now.

-No.

-On my way.

-Yes.

The DLRs have no messaging capability due to them not having a display.

My wife and I have played around with the default messages and we've had fun bouncing messages back and forth between our DTR650 radios. Aside from playing around with the feature we don't use the text messaging feature at all. We just use the DTRs to talk since they have completely replaced our use of GMRS/FRS for the same purpose.

Have fun!

 

[JASII]

GMRS Exit Strategy: Going To 900MHz DTRs And DLRs

The DLRs have no messaging capability due to them not having a display.

My wife and I have played around with the default messages and we've had fun bouncing messages back and forth between our DTR650 radios. Aside from playing around with the feature we don't use the text messaging feature at all. We just use the DTRs to talk since they have completely replaced our use of GMRS/FRS for the same purpose.

Have fun!

Do you generally use public, rather than private, calling then? I did note that call alerting is only available on private calling.

 

[n1das]

Do you generally use public, rather than private, calling then? I did note that call alerting is only available on private calling.

IIRC, the text messaging is private 1 to 1 only. We have played around with messaging each other back and forth but that's about it. For voice, I normally use group calling because I only intend to talk to other DTRs in my group. I've verified private 1 to 1 calling works including private reply on the DTRs and this works with the private reply feature in the DLRs.

I set up a private talkgroup in my DTRs and that's what we use all the time. The DTRs and DLRs use an ID-based system and each radio has its own unique 11-digit hardware electronic serial number (ESN). The ESN format is similar to 1 plus an area code and phone number and this is used as the radio's ID. The radio ID is set in hardware and not changeable by the end user or by using the CPS. For a radio to respond to activity on a private talkgroup, the radio must be programmed as a member of the private talkgroup, which also has an 11-digit ID (uses the ID of one of the radios in the group) and must include the IDs of all members of the talkgroup. On the public talkgroups, a radio will respond to any incoming ID. So while not encrypted, DTR and DLR communications can be made VERY secure by using private 1 to 1 calling and private groups. The public groups are not secure at all and are easily monitored with another DTR or DLR.

I also have 6 public groups programmed on channel/hopset #1 and they map directly to channels 1-6 in the DLRs, assuming the DLRs are at their factory default programming. The DTRs have public groups 1-5 enabled on channel/hopset #1 as factory default and these map to (factory default) channels 1-5 in the DLRs. I added a public group with an ID of 6 to my DTR programming so that my public groups 1-6 map to DLR (factory default) channels 1-6.

I have talkgroup scan enabled so all groups are being scanned and my private group is the home group. If I change to a different talkgroup, the radio will always revert back to the home group (the private group I set up) after 30 seconds of inactivity. I set it up this way so it will default to operating on the private group while scanning for activity on the other groups. I have heard a little bit of activity on the public groups in urban areas. I've heard fire alarm techs, hotel housekeeping, and parking valets so far.

I expect most DTR and DLR users will simply use them right out of the box like a GMRS/FRS bubble pack and never change them from the default programming. Aside from setting up a private group for my radios, I'm purposely keeping my DTRs close to the default programming to be compatible with other DTRs and DLRs to listen for activity.