GMRS vs. Business Radios vs. ? for Vacation Property

[KB7MIB]

Ok, 60' AGL on a ground mounted tower, or 20' above the roof for a building mounted tower, for MURS.

25' AGL on a ground mounted tower or 25' above the roofline on a roof mounted tower for a GMRS small base station, which is the station class needed to operate on the 7 shared FRS/GMRS channels at 5 watts ERP.

When using the 8 GMRS-only channels, (15-22) you're limited in height by your proximity to an airport/heliport. CC&R's and local zoming ordinances notwithstanding, of course.

Most people won't have the means to put any antenna up 200', which would necessitate notifications to the FAA and FCC.

I'd go with MURS.

John
Peoria, AZ

 

[treborx]

I would go with MURS but make sure that the antenna you use is most resonate in that frequency range or at least most resonate for 2-meter. There are a lot of dual-band antennas that are good at UHF but will do very poorly on MURS.

 

[CaptDan]

So many solutions - really just depends on how legal you want to be, how far out in the woods you are.

If you have the means - money really - create a company - providing fishing and vacation guides at the lake - so anything anyone talked about would be fine. Hows the fishing, what time is dinner, what is for dinner, need anything from the store for diner, how is the water - all ok for a vacation - fishing guide. get a business lic and put up a tower and repeater to cover the area desired. You could most likely rent out tower time or radios and tower time to any neighbors to help cover the cost. You can pretty much do the same on GMRS except not claim it to be a business. As long as the repeater self identifies
and it can do that in morse code all good.


Then again - depending on how legal you want to be - there are some nice radios out there that work great and do not break the bank.

Let us know what you have decided and how it works for you

 

[wa1nic]

I use both GMRS and also business band radios on my farm.

The GMRS radios are small and easy to carry. I have a 5 watt base station with an antenna up about 30 feet. Base to portable range is realistically about a mile in partially wooded terrain.

The business band system (153 Mhz) uses 5 watt portables and 50 watt mobiles. The base station is 300 watts. Base to portable range (in wooded terrain) is typically about 2 miles reliably. Base to mobile is a bit unpredictable depending on direction and what is in the way. In some cases it is only around 5 miles, and in other directions is is closer to 25 miles.

Antenna height is your friend. Stuff in the way (hills, trees, buildings) are your enemy. Power helps, but it takes a big increase in power to make a noticeable difference in range.

As far as marine radios go, if you did use them they would not work any better than a similar setup with VHF commercial radios - they are basically the same exact thing. Operation with a marine radio on land is in most cases illegal, and if you are close to a lake you probably would not go unnoticed.

If you need serious range, a repeater in a really good location is needed.

 

[BaofengScanner]

The biggest issue is that you need to actually have a business (or educational center, non-profit organization, church, school, etc.) to obtain a business band license. Check out section 90.35 of the FCC rules for eligibility. Licenses aren't issued for personal family communications, and you might run into this problem with your rent-a-repeater company since they may be sticklers for following those eligibility requirements.

Nope nope and nope. Other than the FCC not caring or enforcing anything these days it's easy. I've rented for similar uses before from many big companies. Got my own easy through a company twice. They always just put some typical reason or just put nothing and put the rule number in. Go through the ULS and you see lots of those. Or just use no license and nothing happens despite what a manchild raging HAM would like to have you make-believe.

 

[wa1nic]

Coming up with a "business use" is not difficult. How is your charter fishing business going anyway?

As far as running with no license as just suggested, well, you need to consider what would happen if you got caught and decide how badly it would affect your family if a maximum fine was levied. If you wound up on a channel that is in use by a licensed party, I assure you that they would make a phone call.

I had someone throw up a repeater on the frequency that I am licensed for. They were about 15 miles away. The users could hear the repeater, as could I, but they could not hear me at all because they were using receive PL. It was hard to track them down but I ran into one of their users (a construction company btw) in a Home Depot parking lot, saw them using their radio, noticed the markings on the truck, and turned them in. Two weeks later they stopped operation. I saw one of their trucks again and their guy was using a cell phone... no radio in the truck any more. I don't know what happened to them but whatever it was made them stop.

I had another situation where a milk company that was licensed for an area of operation that was about 100 miles away was causing interference because when their drivers left their licensed service area, usually in groups of two or three trucks, they would use the radios like their own personal CB channel. They were no doubt running PL receive because they could not hear me. I was able to figure out by listening long enough who they were and filed a complaint. The activity stopped within a few weeks.

So, you can get caught. The FCC doesn't really have the resources to track abusers down any more, but licensed users who get interfered with might be motivated enough to do the leg work for them.

 

[KD8DVR]

Out of all the suggestions so far, I'd say going marine radio is the best. Start with running around with handhelds Down the road, if needed, maybe some mobiles in any boats, some mobiles in the cars. Pick a seldom used channel, you'll be good to go.

Second best option is MURS. Same as above, pick up a used VHF mobile, get it programmed to the MURS freqs, put it up as a base at the house, get some handheld's and mobiles, put some mobiles in the cars, etc, yada yada just as above.
You'll have good coverage.

Think the marine route would be cheaper and easier. I'd start with just buying a couple of marine handhelds, and see how they play. If memory serves me right, they go for under $100. Like I said, I'd start with seeing just what you can do with just handhelds. Out on the water's gonna give you some multi-mile coverage. Maybe put up a base if you need to.

I do like the 6 meter option, although I don't think it's most applicable for you. But going six meter mobiles and a base, with a seldom used simplex freq, would be a great way to keep in touch in a wide area. But with all the guest and family involved, everyone needing a ham ticket is out of the question.

Use of marine radios on land is ILLEGAL..... The MURS option IMHO sounds best. They can be used in Base, mobile, and portable configuration. Winning bet there..... No license for any users.

 

[KK4TTR]

Use of marine radios on land is ILLEGAL..... The MURS option IMHO sounds best. They can be used in Base, mobile, and portable configuration. Winning bet there..... No license for any users.

Are you sure? Ship to shore would be ok, so even if used around the house and lake front, if there's a marine radio on a boat tied up at the dock, who's to say it isn't legit?

As I stated in my initial response to the OP, I don't know what the rules are regarding marine bands at lakes. Maybe you can enlighten us

I don't know enough about the propagation characteristics of MURS versus marine say which one would be better. Would you make the same recommendation if the use were strictly with a vessel?

 

[krokus]

I don't know enough about the propagation characteristics of MURS versus marine say which one would be better. Would you make the same recommendation if the use were strictly with a vessel?

Essentially, there are no differences, since the frequencies involved are so close to each other.

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[KK4TTR]

Essentially, there are no differences, since the frequencies involved are so close to each other.

MURS is limited to 2W, marine VHF is 25W, so that would make a considerable difference in the range.

If the OP is able to LEGALLY use marine VHF, then that seems to be the best option.

 

[krokus]

MURS is limited to 2W, marine VHF is 25W, so that would make a considerable difference in the range.

Correct, but the question was about propagation, not range.

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[redneckcellphone]

The marine radio angle is possible too if used while on a lake or water-way, or to facilitate such. Are their any marine repeaters in that area? If not, the radios are probably not going to get around all the twists and turns you spoke of.

1. Vhf marine band is line of sight. No repeaters allowed unless it is on one of the spacial frequencies for the area that are setup so you can test your radio.
2. You need a special license to use a marine vhf on land. On a boat no. That being said i took a class a few years back from the coast guard. The question was asked when they said no to using a vhf on land about if calling a water taxi was legal. The answer was still not legal, but they said "dont use it as a cb radio" (ie driving around in a vehicle having conversations ect)

 

[KK4TTR]

The OP has one post, and the last activity was 5 days after the initial post. I was hoping to learn what he ultimately decided to try, and how it was working out. Since the initial post was in April, presumably he was looking for a solution to try out over the summer. It would be a nice way to close out this post.