GRMS/FRS Questions

[CycleSycho]

:wink: A question I have is... Since this OP 'A' is a future licensee (Note: I am getting my GRMS license for legal use when I am out on Lake Superior and want to get off VHF Marine Channels), on a system (repeater) that is in violation by supposed owner 'B', and person 'A' is using this 'repeater' that is in violation (knowing it is a violation), doesn't that put person 'A''s license at risk for revocation, or some other sanction?

I ask this because if OP gets a license, he can lose that license if caught knowingly using an illegal 'repeater'.

 

[mmckenna]

:wink: A question I have is... Since this OP 'A' is a future licensee (Note: I am getting my GRMS license for legal use when I am out on Lake Superior and want to get off VHF Marine Channels), on a system (repeater) that is in violation by supposed owner 'B', and person 'A' is using this 'repeater' that is in violation (knowing it is a violation), doesn't that put person 'A''s license at risk for revocation, or some other sanction?

I ask this because if OP gets a license, he can lose that license if caught knowingly using an illegal 'repeater'.

No.

"A" wouldn't necessarily know that the system was not licensed correctly. With store and forward you also don't know that you are connecting to one, necessarily. Anyone can set one up, and leave it there. Someone on the same channel wouldn't necessarily have any control over accessing it or not. The benefit of a true repeater is you have to specifically set up your radio to work that way. Not so with a store and forward/simplex repeater.

Unlikely anyone would lose a GMRS license, anyway. Enforcement is near zero from the FCC.

And, since I keep seeing it here, the name of the radio service really is G. M. R. S. General Mobile Radio Service. It is not GRMS.

 

[mmckenna]

I don't know what I expected on this site, we have a handful on that site too that berate and belittle rather than trying to properly coax them to get licensed.

And that will always happen here. It's an open forum and people get to share their opinions. Best to just ignore that stuff if it's bugging you.

Some people do think that the way to encourage people to do something is to shame, insult, belittle or otherwise badger them. Think of it as a negative reinforcement. Some people do respond to it. It works in military basic training for a bunch of 18-19 year old kids.
On the other hand, those of us who went through that, grew up and learned how to work with other human beings as a responsible adult have learned that isn't necessarily the way to get things done. I've got 4 engineers that work for me, and I treat them with respect and as grown adults. It works very well. They like it, and my director likes it.
Just ignore those that try the negative reinforcement routine. That's all they know and apparently it works well in their own circles.

 

[swen_out_west]

Alright. For all you barroom lawyers. The guy I talked to this morning refered me to the clarified definition of repeater.

The following link goes straight to the AARL site since I suspect that most people replying to this thread are HAM's, I figure if I quote your group direct you'll actually believe me. Cudo's to the poster who was trying to imply that they aren't repeaters, per say. But for the rest of you freaking out, enjoy reading.

FCC Clarifies What Constitutes an Amateur Radio Repeater

I guess the key wording here is 'on separate channels' and simultaneously. Basically, simplex does not fall into that definition.

And yes, if you as a licensed station receive my signal and decide to re-transmit it on the same frequency within FCC parameters, that's on you. Do what you want with my signal after it hits the airwaves, it's public domain, not copyrighted, lol, once it leaves my antenna.

Amazing how I am doing all this legwork (time and dime) to help promote the use and get unlicensed users licensed on these bands and yet get met with such resistance.

The only problem I have is 'by the book' I can not knowingly allow an unlicensed person to use his already possessed GRMS radio during said event. So he/she would still have to have a FRS specific radio, thus it would be easier to just put out to buy a throw away $10 radio for use. With that said, it was implied by the guy that since it would most likely be a weekend and it is GRMS/FRS (interstitial) shared frequecies, which they don't normally monitor, especially in remote areas, 'enforcement would be difficult', since he suspects that some 'uninformed' currently licensed user will file an incident report with the FCC the following Monday and all incident reports have to be investigated.

So I interpreted that as being that my difficulty isn't going to be with the FCC per say, but rather people who scream: 'NO, get your license, get your license, that's illegal.'

 

[Hans13]

I feel like I am back on the ship in the radio shack and the chests are being puffed out between the RM's (RadioMen) and the ET's (Electronic Technicians) on who knows more.

Exactly. I drug my heels for over 30 years on getting an amateur radio license because of the types of personalities and attitudes I continually run into with many amateur radio operators. No other field, hobby, or group I've ever been involved with had such a high percentage of buttholes. A close second would be gun store counter clerks and the counter flies that buzz around flexing there special, often erroneous, "knowledge".

Try to take it all with a grain of salt. They ain't changing.

Carry on.

 

[swen_out_west]

Exactly. I drug my heels for over 30 years on getting an amateur radio license because of the types of personalities and attitudes I continually run into with many amateur radio operators. No other field, hobby, or group I've ever been involved with had such a high percentage of buttholes. A close second would be gun store counter clerks and the counter flies that buzz around flexing there special, often erroneous, "knowledge".

Try to take it all with a grain of salt. They ain't changing.

Carry on.

LOL, i needed that... I hate it and yet my fields of interest are fields that it gravitates towards. Electonics/Computers, Guns/Hunting/Fishing/Survival. Yes, I usually get in and get out of a gun store.

Amazingly, I was told to go to the local gun store and initiate my HAM test. I responded with a deep breath and my eyes almost rolled out of the back of my head...lol.

 

[Hans13]

Amazingly, I was told to go to the local gun store and initiate my HAM test. I responded with a deep breath and my eyes almost rolled out of the back of my head...lol.

Yikes! If I found myself in a situation like that, it would probably be another 30 or more years before I took an amateur license. There are, of course, some very wonderful people in amateur radio. The secret is to seek them out and ignore the rest, I suppose.

I haven't added anything to the topic of conversation because mmckenna, as is often the case, covered it well. There is nothing I can add further to what he's already posted.

We're in the process of setting up a group repeaterer here on our own tower. It has taken us almost a year but we are getting close. We like the more relaxed atmosphere of GMRS. Where I am at, it's somewhere between CB and 2m as far as overall feel. Enforcement is non-existent. Usage is growing. That's just about where I like things.

Good luck with your project.

 

[swen_out_west]

Well, I've been back and forth on this during this thread. At first I just said, screw it. Then I said 'no that can't be right' and all the negativity got me Hades bent on going through with it. But the project is officially dead. However, the lessons learned and knowledge I have picked up in the last 3 days is incredible.

$800 out of my own pocket (or $120 for the card that I would actually have to modify/finish and then build a case for , which is added cost and field rigged)., Plus, buy a good mobile unit GRMS radio/antenna for $200 +. FORGET IT.

<Project Closed> lol

 

[mmckenna]

We're in the process of setting up a group repeaterer here on our own tower. It has taken us almost a year but we are getting close. We like the more relaxed atmosphere of GMRS. Where I am at, it's somewhere between CB and 2m as far as overall feel. Enforcement is non-existent. Usage is growing. That's just about where I like things.

Good luck with your project.

I went through a few years of trying to get others licensed on amateur radio to use on our ATV rides. I gave up after a while and went to GMRS. Got the license which covered the family, which is exactly what I needed.
I scrounged up used UHF radios. Programmed so they were virtually fool proof. That worked very well for many years. Even had access to a few repeaters near home and near locations where we'd ride/camp.

After a few years of that, the rest of the family started to really see the usefulness of a good radio. Selling them on amateur was a lot easier after that.
Once everyone had their amateur ticket, the GMRS sort of got replaced. The nature of 2 meters worked a bit better, plus more repeater access. I eventually let my GMRS license expire and sold off the UHF radios since they were not getting used.

GMRS really has it's place. It's all that some people need, so there really isn't much of a reason for some to chase down an amateur ticket. GMRS can also function as a gateway to the amateur radio hobby. It takes some time, but it happens.

 

[mmckenna]

Well, I've been back and forth on this during this thread. At first I just said, screw it. Then I said 'no that can't be right' and all the negativity got me Hades bent on going through with it. But the project is officially dead. However, the lessons learned and knowledge I have picked up in the last 3 days is incredible.

$800 out of my own pocket (or $120 for the card that I would actually have to modify/finish and then build a case for , which is added cost and field rigged)., Plus, buy a good mobile unit GRMS radio/antenna for $200 +. FORGET IT.

<Project Closed> lol

We've had our share of projects like that here at work. Seems like a good idea until we start pricing out the capital expenditures and the long term cost of ownership/hardware renewal. Doesn't take much reality to kill a project. It does serve as a good exercise/learning experience, though.

 

[Hans13]

@ mmckenna: Most of our use is family farm and a small group of friends. We are planning on keeping the repeater open for the community to use as well. I've encouraged family and friends to look into amateur radio but, frankly, whenever they speak to some amateur radio operators, they get freaked out by all the talk of NALs, fox hunts, and the overall weird vibe some of these guys give off. I've heard more than a few of them start right off about the negative stuff. It really turns people off. I've had more than a couple of people tell me lately that they don't want to join in something like that. I've been telling them to cut their teeth on GMRS and just stay open-minded to the possibility of amateur radio in the future. I prefer VHF but, UHF is what we have in GMRS.

@ swen_out_west: I'm sorry to hear that the project has died. If you decide to revisit it, I don't know if anybody mentioned it but crossband repeat...? And that's all that I'll say about that.