Gwinnett County Fire

[N8IAA]

I did a test of the so-called 24/7 PIO email today and so far it has been over 6 hours and I haven't received a response to my inquiry.

What good is having a 24/7 PIO if they're going to take such a long time to respond? What a complete loss of confidence in that agency.

Did you really expect anything else:lol:

In 2001, I participated in the Gwinnett County Citizen's Police Academy. Had done one in Cleve, OH the year before moving to GA. Cleveland's was 8 weeks and didn't have half the content of the GCCPA. Gwinnett's was 10 weeks and quite intensive.
The classes were set up as if we were going through the academy. We did traffic stops, went through the tricked out training house, including flash bangs. Never once did I ever believe that they would shut out the public.

Joined the alumni group, got to do a fly along on the chopper. Went through the high speed car class, 60mph through traffic cone maze with a FRS radio on the seat next to you waiting for them to say stop. Brought along my MTX8000 on my ride along and fly along. Even cloned my Pro-235 to the EUD supervisors scanner.
Knew every cop that lived in Sugar Hill on a first name basis. Used to help with parking at out fall festival with two of my close buddies from the neighborhood. Almost joined a team of intervention citizens and PD, would have had my own ID on the trunk system. Work got crazy, and I couldn't do the commitment.

Flash forward to 2008. New P-25 system came online while I was talking to a sheriffs deputy. All of Gwinnett went silent 10/2008. No PD's, SO's, FD. FD got into a pickle trying to work a wreck on 85 with DeKalb. It didn't work. FD went in the clear.

In all the years I was affiliated with the Gwinnett Citizens group, and interfacing with the people I got to know in PD and SO, there was never a problem with communications between public service and the citizens of Gwinnett. I knew the two PIO's. They were the main instructors at the academy.

3/31/15. Gwinnett decided they no longer wanted to trust the citizens of the county to monitor their activity.
SHAME ON YOU!!
Larry

*Oh, by the way, I met Tommy Rutledge at the fire academy, and man did he change when he was promoted to Captain and PIO*

 

[rapidcharger]

It's been 24 hours since my inquiry and still no response.

Did you really expect anything else:lol:)))

Yes, I did.
I expected a response.
At the very least a response asking what media outlet I am with.
I am very disappointed.

It's not the going encrypted that bothers me the most or even the millions blown on a DTRS. What bothers me the most now is all the lying and B.S.

(((
*Oh, by the way, I met Tommy Rutledge at the fire academy, and man did he change when he was promoted to Captain and PIO*

How so?

 

[MTS2000des]

Gwinnett county board of commissioners meetings with public comments, fourth Tuesday of every month.

Since this was a "command staff" decision as Capt. Rutledge indicated in his responses, the first step is filing open records requests for all emails and communications regarding encrypting fire department radio communications.

Second step is reaching out to those command staff members and asking them why they decided to implement encryption. Was there an incident? A result of a study? Facts and figures would be helpful if there are any.

Third step is to hold them accountable for their decision and make sure they understand that what they have done is not in line with an interoperable environment and certainly not one that fosters and atmosphere of confidence by the citizens they serve and who are paying the bill.

I will not do the work for your Gwinnett residents. I live 40 miles away, and aside, I have my own corruption battle to the tune of $400 million I am dealing with.

But at least over here, the government doesn't keep us in the dark about all the ongoing crime by not only keeping public safety radio traffic accessible, but they also use social media heavily to keep us abreast of incidents, missing persons, perp searches, road closures, etc.

 

[mikewazowski]

Gentlemen, instead of engaging the off-topic poster in conversation which contributes further to the off-topic discussion, please just report the post and ignore him or her.

I've gone through and deleted the off-topic discussion.

Thanks.

 

[rapidcharger]

72 hours and still no response by the "24/7" PIO.
This is what you call operating in secret.

But at least over here, the government doesn't keep us in the dark about all the ongoing crime by not only keeping public safety radio traffic accessible, but they also use social media heavily to keep us abreast of incidents, missing persons, perp searches, road closures, etc.

But! at least over here, they won't kick you out of a meeting for saying things they don't want to hear. They just click their pens and ignore you.

 

[N8IAA]

But! at least over here, they won't kick you out of a meeting for saying things they don't want to hear. They just click their pens and ignore you.

Maybe they think that's how to access social media:lol:
Larry

 

[kc4wai]

Perhaps I'm being overly optimistic, but I get the feeling this new secrecy with their Fire/EMS comms won't last. Primarily because it happened once before as was previously pointed out. I work full time in EMS and volunteer in the Fire Service. Not once have I ever felt unsafe because the public and media are able to listen on scanners and feeds. Encryption does not decrease the inherent risks of working in public safety. The only thing encryption protects are those who are not proud of what they do.

 

[rapidcharger]

The only thing encryption protects are those who are not proud of what they do.

And, those who have something to hide.
It's like the cops always say after chasing after and capturing someone who took off who claims the didn't do anything wrong... "If you didn't do anything wrong, why did you run and hide?"

Gwinnett doesn't have the best reputation when it comes to openness and transparency and also has a reputation for well documented corruption including some public officials that were convicted of corruption related crimes. You would think that if they have turned a page and wanted to demonstrate that and gain the confidence and approval of the people whom they serve, they would go out of their way to be open and transparent about stuff especially things that are most often not kept secret such as dispatch channels.

The only thing that was demonstrated however is how not a thing has changed.

 

[rapidcharger]

Maybe they think that's how to access social media:lol:
Larry

The funny thing about that, is every board member I looked up on facebook has a facebook presence and they are quite active on there.

OTOH the fire and police departments have a facebook page. They just don't use them to communicate with the public. About all you see are "reviews" for those agencies, and both are abysmal. You'd think with that splattered on their facebook page, they would make at least a slight effort to improve their image rather than make it worse.

 

[MTS2000des]

so it's been how many days now since you asked the PIO who invited both media and public to contact him "24/7" for a rundown of calls on a particular day and have heard not a peep?

what a crock.

 

[tampabaynews]

I figured this would be the case.

Again, most PIO's are only interested in dealing with the media despite the word PUBLIC in the job title. If they know they can get away with lip service, they will. I consider myself a long established freelancer in my market and even I have trouble too.

What might help is finding out who the PIO directly reports to. Go through the chain of command. Let them that the PIO is not conducting their responsibilities. And you might as well tell them that if it weren't for encryption you wouldn't need to reach out to them.

Also indicate that you're making a public records request. That way the PIO ignoring the email or refusing to release records may be considered a violation of state law. I'm not familiar with GA public records laws though.

 

[MTS2000des]

I figured this would be the case.

Me too. This is Gwinnett county we are talking about.

Again, most PIO's are only interested in dealing with the media despite the word PUBLIC in the job title.

But this PIO specifically stated in a communique with myself and several others that the general public was encouraged to contact him "24/7" with any questions.

So I guess he told a LIE then? What a shocker

What might help is finding out who the PIO directly reports to.
Also indicate that you're making a public records request.

That has already been done by another poster. Under the Georgia Open Records Act. They have three days to respond with any exemption to the request:

Three days to list legal basis for exemption

Within the three business days applicable to response to a request for access to records under this article, the public officer or agency having control of such record or records, if access to such record or records is denied in whole or in part, shall specify in writing the specific legal authority exempting such record or records from disclosure, by Code section, subsection, and paragraph. O.C.G.A. § 50-18-72(h)

http://law.ga.gov/sites/law.ga.gov/files/imported/vgn/images/portal/cit_1210/62/51/186385699r1.pdf

 

[kc4wai]

IMHO given the recent incident in North Charleston, SC, that right there should score another blow against encrypted radio traffic. With regard to public servants there are no reasonable expectations of privacy and certainly no expectations for secrecy from your citizens or the media. You wanna play these little 'cloak and dagger' games, move to another country. We don't want your kind in public safety.

 

[MTS2000des]

Public records request revealed...

I have received a large volume of information from a public records request filed by someone else. I am sifting through it in regards to Gwinnett county fire's decision to encrypt radio traffic.

What I can release at this point is that it was WELL planned several months ago and apparently the result of primarily the 2013 hostage call in which a very high ranking official claims members of the media and I quote "the scangwinnett.com and other internet scanner websites" released "personal identifying information" on those involved in that incident. This email was sent to several members of the public safety communications community and mutual aid responders, and was dated October 28, 2014.

What I can also say is that the responses to my and the other poster in this thread's inquiry that were sent to PIO Captain Rutledge were well thought out and required the "review and tweaking" of several high ranking GCFD officials, though the response lacked any substantial information or answers to concerns raised.

What is very troubling to me is how only ONE member of the media contacted GCFD and inquired about their intent to encrypt fire radio traffic.

What is very sad is how NO ONE except myself and one other person bothered to contact Gwinnett county from the radio community and voice their concern. Just further proves how the radio scanner community is lazy and does not even care enough to send a friggin email. I mean, how much time does that take? Many of you whine and moan about encryption on this forum ad infinitum but when the rubber meets the road, not a single one of you can be bothered to do any work to keep your hobby viable.

I don't even live in that county but yet I managed to spend an hour and half drafting what I felt was a well thought letter with some valid concerns, from the public records request, it managed to get a lot of people's eyes on it, as did the other persons letter, but imagine how it could have been if they got 10 or 20 emails how much that might have impacted their decision?

But no, none of you care. Go back to listening to paint dry. I'm done. Where I live everything is in the clear and my government doesn't have it's cranium inserted into their rectal cavity when it comes to communicating with it's citizens. I will no longer do anyone else' work for them.

I'll sit back and be a lazy schlep like the rest of my fellow scanner hobbyists and do nothing, and expect nothing too.

 

[DC]

MTS200des
"What is very sad is how NO ONE except myself and one other person bothered to contact Gwinnett county from the radio community and voice their concern. Just further proves how the radio scanner community is lazy and does not even care enough to send a friggin email. I mean, how much time does that take? Many of you whine and moan about encryption on this forum ad infinitum but when the rubber meets the road, not a single one of you can be bothered to do any work to keep your hobby viable."

Do you think that the Gwinnett County Government really cares what you think about their fire deptartment going encrypted? If you do then you're sadly mistaken. You can send all of the Emails that you want, but it isn't going to change a thing. So deal with it.

We're not lazy, we just know the truth of the matter, once any agency decides to encrypt their comms, you're not going to change their mind.

 

[DC]

I guess the war is about to begin. I'm ready for the fireworks to start.

 

[DC]

MTS200des, did I hear you correctly? You said, and I quote:
"What is very sad is how NO ONE except myself and one other person bothered to contact Gwinnett county from the radio community and voice their concern. Just further proves how the radio scanner community is lazy and does not even care enough to send a friggin email. I mean, how much time does that take? Many of you whine and moan about encryption on this forum ad infinitum but when the rubber meets the road, not a single one of you can be bothered to do any work to keep your hobby viable."

Here is what I say to that:
Do you think that the Gwinnett County Government really cares what you think about their fire deptartment going encrypted? If you do then you're sadly mistaken. You can send all of the Emails that you want, but it isn't going to change a thing. So deal with it.

We're not lazy, we just know the truth of the matter, once any agency decides to encrypt their comms, you're not going to change their mind.

 

[MTS2000des]

MTS200des, did I hear you correctly? You said, and I quote:
"What is very sad is how NO ONE except myself and one other person bothered to contact Gwinnett county from the radio community and voice their concern. Just further proves how the radio scanner community is lazy and does not even care enough to send a friggin email. I mean, how much time does that take? Many of you whine and moan about encryption on this forum ad infinitum but when the rubber meets the road, not a single one of you can be bothered to do any work to keep your hobby viable."

Yep, you read that right. Congratulations.

Here is what I say to that:
Do you think that the Gwinnett County Government really cares what you think about their fire deptartment going encrypted? If you do then you're sadly mistaken. You can send all of the Emails that you want, but it isn't going to change a thing. So deal with it.

Thanks Captain Obvious. You miss the point like so many hobbyists. This is more about accountability. Now that it is on record (thanks to some), when the next incident goes down where some bonehead move like encrypting firegrounds has a direct impact on an incident and or/response, they cannot deny their liability nor the fact that they KNEW their decision to use non-industry standard encryption (ADP) was a poor one from the aspect of interoperability.

That little nugget of gold came from a high ranking official last year, I would post it, but you like the rest of the so-called radio community could care less apparently so I won't even bother posting that email here.

We're not lazy, we just know the truth of the matter, once any agency decides to encrypt their comms, you're not going to change their mind.

No, but you could go on record with some factual information that at a later date may cause them to be held accountable should their decision to do so result in an operational issue or harmful outcome.

I find it funny your handle is "DC", nothing to do with Washington DC I'm sure, but this years' DC smoke in the tunnel incident certainly caused an agency to revise their decision to encrypt fire communications. Sad part about that is, someone had to get killed and many hurt for those responsible to realize that one of the factors involved in a response delay was encryption of radio traffic. It also shows then when people hold the powerful accountable the powerful have no choice but to take action.

DC fire dept. ordered to stop encrypting radios

So the truth is when people ask questions and demand accountability, they might get it. The truth is when people sit back and do NOTHING they will for sure get NOTHING. That is certainly the definition of laziness.

Government only does what it wants because we allow it to. If we don't hold those who make these decisions accountable, who will? Oh I know. too much work, nothing will change..right?

 

[rapidcharger]

It is true that as of this past Friday, only 3 people have contacted the fire department in writing (be it by email or other written letter). Of those 3 people, only 1 of them lives in Gwinnett and ironically, that one person doesn't even have a scanner capable of monitoring the fire department even if they were in the clear. This has been confirmed by reviewing all of the communications that have come in. One of the remaining two is Mr. Pitbull above and one member of the media who seemed to already know it was going to happen.

I'm kind of on the fence about spending any more time discussing this issue and the other facts that were discovered because while it's interesting, it doesn't seem like in a county of nearly a million people, that a single person gives a hoot.

 

[alex4659]

Gwinnett doesn't have the best reputation when it comes to openness and transparency and also has a reputation for well documented corruption including some public officials that were convicted of corruption related crimes.

I had spoke to a county police officer in gwinnett the other day and he told me that GCPD does not do ride a longs anymore. Unless its a student in law school, someone that works in the courts, a new recruit and one other exception that i cant rememeber. Not even police explorers get to ride a long. Hmmmmmm...