H.R. 451 "Don’t Break Up the T-Band Act of 2020" has passed the House

[12dbsinad]

It doesn't matter either way for NYC, they would just tell the FCC to go shove it just like they did with the narrowband mandate. The FCC would then provide some sort of waiver for them for formality purposes.

 

[N5XPM]

New Part 90 LMR equipment has been required to be narrowband compliant for about a decade. Most Part 90 LMR radios have been narrowband programmable for about 20 years. The "fleet" of operational Part 90 radios should be mostly narrowband capable by now. If the FCC requires narrowband for new T-band sites and licenses in the future, the band will evolve into a narrowband one over time. P25, DMR and NXDN are inherently narrowband.

 

[montyw47]

Congress passed only 1 part of the legislative branch, Dems did something. But Mitch is running for his life as a Senator. Maybe he has time to take up bipat\rtisan legislation and pass something

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Congress passed only 1 part of the legislative branch, Dems did something. But Mitch is running for his life as a Senator. Maybe he has time to take up bipat\rtisan legislation and pass something

It wont help any of his voting constituents so he will continue pander to them on things that don't matter.

 

[garys]

The bill passed overwhelmingly 410 - 5. There are 435 seats in the House, so 20 members didn't vote at all. Which means that both parties are in favor of this. Right now, there is a more pressing issue before the Senate. Or will be starting Tuesday. I don't expect that there will be much opposition to this bill when it gets to the Senate. It should pass before the session ends at the end of the year. I also expect that the President will sign it.

BTW, McConnell is 12+ in the RCP average, so I don't think he's running too hard.

Congress passed only 1 part of the legislative branch, Dems did something. But Mitch is running for his life as a Senator. Maybe he has time to take up bipat\rtisan legislation and pass something

 

[RadioDitch]

There's so much of a spectrum grab going on by cell companies it sickens me.

Which was never going to happen. The CTIA said resoundingly they didn't want the T-band spectrum and never would. From the outset they clearly stated that they had no plans of putting 5G broadband below 600MHz, with a significant bulk planned for EHF in the millimeter band. They never had a buyer from the beginning, which is the biggest reason it never made sense.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Which was never going to happen. The CTIA said resoundingly they didn't want the T-band spectrum and never would. From the outset they clearly stated that they had no plans of putting 5G broadband below 600MHz, with a significant bulk planned for EHF in the millimeter band. They never had a buyer from the beginning, which is the biggest reason it never made sense.

I think the FCC was hoping that TV "white space" operators would bid on the spectrum in order to provide WISP services. I don't hear much activity in that regard.

 

[pfdradio]

This is great news for "T" band users. There was a reason for using "T" band in these metropolitan areas. There just wasn't enough spectrum available for these users. I hope it gets passed in the Senate.

 

[RocketNJ]

But the big pink elephant sitting in the middle of the room....

Will they require existing channel 14, 15, 16 TV stations to move? If not, there is still the interference issue plaguing many T-Band systems due to ducting.

 

[GTR8000]

But the big pink elephant sitting in the middle of the room....

Will they require existing channel 14, 15, 16 TV stations to move? If not, there is still the interference issue plaguing many T-Band systems due to ducting.

I don't believe there were ever any plans to move TV off of channels 14-20 (470-512). Public safety will always play second fiddle to TV on a "shared basis", with the TV stations being afforded protection, not the other way around.

Given that they just completed the final phase of the TV spectrum repacking, which included a number of stations moving to channels 14-20 (not the other way around), it seems highly unlikely that public safety will ever get any relief on the T-Band channels. Sadly, the repacking has only made things worse in some areas, e.g. NYC is all of a sudden experiencing interference during periods of ducting on their 482-488 frequencies (TV Ch 16), which was previously not much of an issue.

In some respects, the T-Band giveback would've been something of a blessing for some areas, such as Morris County. If a successful auction had brought in enough funds to pay for relocation to 700 MHz, it would've alleviated the bulk of the issues with ducting without putting the burden on the taxpayers to foot the bill to relocate. Obviously in other areas such as NYC, having to abandon T-Band would've been an absolute nightmare, and it seemed clear for years that no auction of that spectrum was going to ever provide a fraction of the funding needed to relocate public safety elsewhere.

And so now, life goes on. Those agencies that were banking on getting funding to move to 700/800 will have to either remain on T-Band and put up with the interference during periods of ducting, or figure out how to pay for new infrastructure and subscribers on their own.

 

[W1KNE]

The actual numbers, based on the repack table issued by the FCC when everyone found out their assignments. These numbers are likely to have changed, but not enough to change the point here:

Full Power & Class A stations:
Pre Repack: 314
Post Repack: 467

Full Power Only:
Pre Repack: 248
Post Repack: 360

I excluded WNEP which shifted from 16 to 21, and the table didn't list LPTVs.
Ironically in Boston, where we had three T Band pre repack channels, we only have two now.

 

[RocketNJ]

Yeah I know public safety is secondary so you may see agencies move off T-band due to the interference even though the give-back law might be rescinded.

It will take a while to pass the Senate and get sign off from POTUS. In other words I wouldn’t want to be holding my breath.

Morris is already licensed on 700 MHz.

😝

 

[mmckenna]

Attempt to pass T-Band repeal bill quickly in Senate blocked - Urgent Comms

An effort to pass a bill repealing a law requiring the FCC to auction public-safety spectrum from 470 MHz to 512 MHz—airwaves known as the T-Band—by voice vote on the Senate floor was blocked yesterday, but public-safety representatives remain optimistic that Congress could act on the matter...

urgentcomm.com

 

[garys]

I'll just repeat what I said on a different communications forum. This was procedural, so the bill is very much alive. Markey wanted a voice vote, but that motion didn't pass.

The very fact that it's on the floor of the Senate being discussed is actually a positive sign. If it was still stuck in committee or worse sent for a "study" that would be bad.

 

[rr60]

Whoa....yes a step in the right direction, but no mention of the step back.

UHF TV repacking has now made many systems 470-512 subject to tropo interference
during band openings. I do not think that these will get unpacked with all the gymnastics and money that has been spent.

IMHO no matter what the Senate and Exec Branch may do, some UHF T Band users are now left with a dirty spectrum at times. A nasty hot mess.

 

[pfdradio]

The TV repack should start above 512 MHz. UHF TV Channel 22. That would leave 470-512 clean.

 

[rr60]

The TV repack should start above 512 MHz. UHF TV Channel 22. That would leave 470-512 clean.

You sure sure about that? RF 19 for example.

19

503

500-506

Repack – WAVY Rescan FAQ

 

[W1KNE]

T-Band ends at channel 20. 506-512.
Channel 22 is 518-524. I used to maintain a Channel 22 transmitter so I know those by heart. lol

 

[rr60]

T-Band ends at channel 20. 506-512.
Channel 22 is 518-524. I used to maintain a Channel 22 transmitter so I know those by heart. lol

Thanks Mike. The way I understood @pfdradio post #36, it implied repack had no impact to Tband, this is not the case in my opinion.

Tropo on the East coast brings an increase in the noise floor. New repacked in 2020 is from 500-506. There are other bands or channels impacted too. This is just one example.

There have been times when multiple paths exist to several stations.

RF 19 UHF TV 500-506 MHZ

WUTF UniMas Worcester MA Near Boston, 180 Miles , 216KW, New CH19 from 29

WYPX ION Amsterdam NY Near Albany, 160 Miles, 240KW, New CH19 from 50

WSTM, NBC Syracuse NY 160 Miles, 164 Miles, 187KW, New CH19 from 24

WAVY NBC Portsmouth VA Near Norfolk, 280 Miles, 765KW, New CH19 from 31

 

[W1KNE]

Ah I misread PFDradio's post.
There were enough issues trying to get the current spectrum onto the 14-36 band, eliminating the additional 42 MHz would've been a nightmare.
There probably could've been better alignments to eliminate "known Tropospheric ducting" paths, but even that would be difficult.