Ham radio and newer generations

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KC4RAF

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No, amateur radio will not die.

As in every hobby, profession, etc., there is always up and down eras. For the past 65 years, I've seen it as it is now.
WWI and WWII were the only time there weren't any hams on the air, (except during WWII, WERS was started at the insistent of ARRL).
New ideas come and go; some become a new apparatus, or mode. When we, the old generation, dies, there will be new shoes to fill our space at the transmitters.
 

K4EET

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Good points K4EET. Yes, I'll be selling tickets at the Frostfest for the better part of the morning and then wandering around looking for deals myself!

Look for me. I'll be the only ham with a cowboy hat riding on a lime-green manual wheelchair... :lol:
 

Token

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In my short time within the hobby I have noticed it does not have much appeal to our younger generations.
Most hams I have met are considerably older then me, which makes me wonder what the hobby will be when they are gone?

Purchasing hundreds or even thousands of dollars worth of equipment to maybe talk to someone if the conditions are right and your equipment is functioning properly, does not seem to appeal to the instant no hassle gratification generation among us and I imagine it will continue to be the norm in the future.

This is an interesting issue and it is NOT new. In the past the Scouts did foster some young activity, and some high schools did have ham radio clubs, and both of those avenues have been diminished, especially school ham clubs. But this hobby has always been an older person hobby.

Think about it. Middle aged people have more disposable income to put towards such a hobby. Retired folks have more time to put towards the hobby. Young folks most often have limited income, and more activities to make demands on their time.

In the past (say in the post WW II to mid 1970’s time period, sometime thought of as the golden age of ham radio) a young person with limited financial resources would very often build his first transmitter, although he would likely have a manufactured receiver. For a couple dollars in junk TV parts you could build a nice 75 Watt input, crystal controlled, CW only transmitter for HF. And since you HAD to know Code to be licensed, this was adequate to get you on the air, indeed this is all you were allowed as a Novice or a Technician on HF. Remember in the time period I am talking about FM on VHF was not a very popular thing, it existed but was pretty new and equipment tended to be harder to get or more expensive.

Store bought transmitter / receiver pairs or transceivers were expensive. In 1965 the Swan 350 transceiver, not a particularly good unit or brand, listed for $395, or about $3000 in 2016 dollars. A low end Conar (a cheap brand) Model 300 / 400 transmitter receiver pair sold, assembled, for $103 ($780 in 2016 dollars), and in kit form for $90 ($680 in 2016 dollars). A top of the line KWM-2a, without accessories, was about $1200 in 1965, or about $9100 in 2016 dollars. To put that in perspective, the median price of a home in the US that year was about $21000, and a big block Corvette was under $5000.

So in 1967 when I got my novice license (as a teenager) I went on the air with a home brew transmitter and a third hand manufactured receiver. I was limited (by regulation as well as my gear) to 75 Watts of input power (about 45 Watts output), I was crystal controlled, and I could use CW only, no voice, on HF. Grand total I had maybe $50 in the gear, call it $300 today.

I HAD to advance my license in 2 years if I wanted to stay in ham radio, the Novice license was not renewable at that time, so after 2 years I had to move up in license class (and so immerse myself deeper in the hobby) or not do ham radio.

In general I would say that ham radio itself has never been as enticing to young people as it is today. It has never been faster, easier, or cheaper (in real value) to get on the air in any band and mode you want. It seems it is much better suited to young people entering the hobby. However the competition is much more today. And build a radio to get on the air? Puh-leeze. It is NO harder to do that today than in the past, and arguably less expensive in real cost. But it takes time and effort, and you still end up (at the cheap end of the scale) with a transmitter that works in a mode that most new hams today have no knowledge of or desire to operate in. That is not very much of a draw compared to a $40 Chinese HT.

Cell phones, social media, game consoles, the internet, etc, all take up time and income. They all have more instant “pop” than ham radio and few of them require any real commitment to get involved. And if you think about ham radio ONLY for communications it simply cannot compete with these other things, but ham was never only about communications. It was about the path to getting to communications, and experimentation / learning once you got there.

And so today, as in ANY time in the past, the majority of the active hams are older, typically middle aged or older. There are probably more (by percentage) pre-middle aged people actually licensed, but the most active hams still seem to fit that mold. Possibly because they have the money and the time to pursue the activity.

What will happen to the hobby when the Millennials reach middle age? I am betting the folks who had a latent interest in ham radio but never pursued it will start to rise in the hobby. To some extent you can see that happening now. But I am a little worried that ham radio simply will not be able to compete by the time Generation Z hits that same point of life.

T!
 
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johnls7424

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Radio in general is a dying image. Setting aside the RR community and its affiliates ( if any) people seriously care much less about HAM, scanners or public safety operations. I'm in my late 20's ( of that younger generation pop) and not so long ago even my age group was interested in this type of stuff, but they grew away and apart from it. Cell phones became much more practical. Not just for communication between two parties, but the other things it offers. Like gaming applications, weather apps, maps/GPS directions. Whereas two way radios kept it more professional in a sense that it's just people talking to other people. Sadly too the Internet and it even being accessible from a cellular device has made the HAM market even slimmer for the younger and even now so the middle aged generation. Why access a repeater and meet people via call signs when you just ask or post your cell number and then we can FaceTime in real time. I am not saying I'm against it. I love radios and everything in its realm, but the unfortunate fact is technology has surpassed the younger generations interests in more simpler means of communication ( if that makes sense). Why buy a 40.00 starter Ham radio that is only good for talking to a select community when such person could buy a prepaid 40.00 phone and connect to the world or anyone they want via a cell phone number and text message.

It's so sad, but so true
 

johnls7424

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This is an interesting issue and it is NOT new. In the past the Scouts did foster some young activity, and some high schools did have ham radio clubs, and both of those avenues have been diminished, especially school ham clubs. But this hobby has always been an older person hobby.

Think about it. Middle aged people have more disposable income to put towards such a hobby. Retired folks have more time to put towards the hobby. Young folks most often have limited income, and more activities to make demands on their time.

In the past (say in the post WW II to mid 1970’s time period, sometime thought of as the golden age of ham radio) a young person with limited financial resources would very often build his first transmitter, although he would likely have a manufactured receiver. For a couple dollars in junk TV parts you could build a nice 75 Watt input, crystal controlled, CW only transmitter for HF. And since you HAD to know Code to be licensed, this was adequate to get you on the air, indeed this is all you were allowed as a Novice or a Technician on HF. Remember in the time period I am talking about FM on VHF was not a very popular thing, it existed but was pretty new and equipment tended to be harder to get or more expensive.

Store bought transmitter / receiver pairs or transceivers were expensive. In 1965 the Swan 350 transceiver, not a particularly good unit or brand, listed for $395, or about $3000 in 2016 dollars. A low end Conar (a cheap brand) Model 300 / 400 transmitter receiver pair sold, assembled, for $103 ($780 in 2016 dollars), and in kit form for $90 ($680 in 2016 dollars). A top of the line KWM-2a, without accessories, was about $1200 in 1965, or about $9100 in 2016 dollars. To put that in perspective, the median price of a home in the US that year was about $21000, and a big block Corvette was under $5000.

So in 1967 when I got my novice license (as a teenager) I went on the air with a home brew transmitter and a third hand manufactured receiver. I was limited (by regulation as well as my gear) to 75 Watts of input power (about 45 Watts output), I was crystal controlled, and I could use CW only, no voice, on HF. Grand total I had maybe $50 in the gear, call it $300 today.

I HAD to advance my license in 2 years if I wanted to stay in ham radio, the Novice license was not renewable at that time, so after 2 years I had to move up in license class (and so immerse myself deeper in the hobby) or not do ham radio.

In general I would say that ham radio itself has never been as enticing to young people as it is today. It has never been faster, easier, or cheaper (in real value) to get on the air in any band and mode you want. It seems it is much better suited to young people entering the hobby. However the competition is much more today. And build a radio to get on the air? Puh-leeze. It is NO harder to do that today than in the past, and arguably less expensive in real cost. But it takes time and effort, and you still end up (at the cheap end of the scale) with a transmitter that works in a mode that most new hams today have no knowledge of or desire to operate in. That is not very much of a draw compared to a $40 Chinese HT.

Cell phones, social media, game consoles, the internet, etc, all take up time and income. They all have more instant “pop” than ham radio and few of them require any real commitment to get involved.

And so today, as in ANY time in the past, the majority of the active hams are older, typically middle aged or older. There are probably more (by percentage) pre-middle aged people actually licensed, but the most active hams still seem to fit that mold. Possibly because they have the money and the time to pursue the activity.

What will happen to the hobby when the Millennials reach middle age? I am betting the folks who had a latent interest in ham radio but never pursued it will start to rise in the hobby. To some extent you can see that happening now. But I am a little worried that ham radio simply will not be able to compete by the time Generation Z hits that same point of life.

T!


Your so true on all these levels. Sad part is when you made mention of the " instant pop". The younger generation ( even younger then me) can't stand to wait for anything. If it doesn't have " instant pop" then it's useless to them. They want nothing that doesn't fulfill their wants and desires in that second. Look at how they need the newest iPhone, the newest computers and technology. Granted not much does change between updated models, but they need and want to have it. It's not just a problem with the radio world, but the country and daily lifestyles in general. Ultimately a problem for the world
 

johnls7424

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Sorry to keep blowing this forum up with posts. I just feel so passionate with all of this. This is IN MY OPINION: if you want Amatuer radio to appeal, let along survive for many more generations you will have to appeal and inter grate with today's technology ( Internet + cell phone). Not just postings and DMR ID activity logs, etc etc.. But actually making applications in a cell phone that automatically make your cell phone at a limited stance a HAM radio. Also and I know this a taboo to say this, but get rid of testing for licensing requirements. I know that's a FCC govt regulation and community standard for HAM, but the less ropes to go through the easier it is to appeal to the next generations. I don't forsee amateur radio becoming dead within 50 years, but afterwards I don't see it making a comeback. Remember this is all IN MY OPINION.
 

ab3a

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When I was a child, ham radio was the internet of its age. Conversing with people all over the world was considered to be exotic.

These days, you do it from a phone any time. You don't need huge technical prowess to build an effective radio station just to talk to someone in Europe. Just call them on Skype.

So what's the attraction? Look toward the hacker and maker movements. There are some interesting people getting in to the hobby from there.

Also note that the typical age of a ham radio operator, though it is getting grayer, has always had a large number of older people with loads of time on their hands.

As a father of three teens, I have my hands full. I can't afford any of my hobbies. I don't have the time. I don't get that linear amount of several hours at a time when I can relax and chat with people. I'm constantly getting pulled in one direction or another.

So the hobby is mostly on hold. I have my license. I do listen to the airwaves from time to time. But I don't have time to do much of anything.

Thus, the hobby does sound older than it really is. Don't worry, there may not be as many hams as there used to be in its heyday, But those who are there are the sort of people we need to carry the hobby well in to this century and probably the next.
 

K5MPH

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You had to pass a code test as well as answer some serious technical questions back when I got my license (N8BSR). Then came code free licenses and mail-order testing (club exams). I felt that those changes were going to contribute to the downfall of the hobby. You don't value something you get with little effort. Could it be that I'm being proven right?
You hit the Nail on the head with the dumbing down of the ham test and removing the code the only real filter that the fcc had is gone i have all ready seen the downfall of this hobby at least in my local area there's no more studying of Ham Radio Theory any more it's just memorizing A.B.C.D. to me thats not not Ham Radio.........
 

TheSpaceMann

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The good news is that the doctors are helping older folks live a lot longer today! When many folks get on in age, their mobility becomes challenged, and the ability to interact socially can be diminished. With Ham radio, they can almost always find someone somewhere to chat with! Conversing with other people can help keep the mind active. The ability of Ham radio to actually create and maintain friendships, is priceless.
 

KE0GXN

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Echo Mike Two-Seven
How do we know that this is a new problem? In other words, I think amateur radio has always been heavily populated by middle-aged and older licensees. Sure, there are always examples in amateur radio history of young people getting involved, but I think they are not the norm. Heck, at the very beginning of amateur radio, H.P. Maxim and his buddies were all middle-aged.

Will amateur radio die as these middle-aged and older hams die? No, I don't think so. Just my opinion.

Maybe a poor choice of words on my part, but I what I was trying to get at was how our hobby could go about attracting folks at a "younger" age to get involved. For example, quite a few hams I have met, had made statements about their only regret with the hobby is that they didn't start the hobby when they were a lot younger. In other words many of them did not give ham radio a thought until they had long retired and were looking for a hobby to occupy their time.

I am kind of an example of that myself, while I am nowhere near retirement age, I too wish someone had introduced me to ham radio long ago. Will ham die with time, I can see both sides of the opinion, but like you I don't think it ultimately will, at least I hope not.
 
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KE0GXN

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Echo Mike Two-Seven
I have a 13 year old grandson that has "techno-geek traits" and he wanted to go to the hamfest with me last weekend. At the last minute a family obligation kept him from going to the hamfest. But he is fascinated with the thought of building a simple transmitter and taking an old military BC-348 receiver to talk to somebody thousands of miles away.

My daughter, when she had to do a science fair project for school one year long ago, chose to do an exhibit on Morse Code since she always hears that radiating from my shack. She learned enough code to be able to send her name using a Code Practice Oscillator (CPO) that she built.

What is the common denominator here? An Elmer. In case you don't know, an Elmer takes somebody under their wing and helps them learn the aspects of Ham Radio. IMHO, it is up to the Elmer to help ignite that flame in a prospective Ham. Perhaps it is inviting somebody over to help you build a project or put up an antenna. Let them operate your station while observing 3rd Party Agreements. There are lots of ways to kindle the fire. You might have to be creative at times too.

As for the 10 year old on a repeater, just the other day I worked a 10 year old at 20 WPM code. He was using his grandfather's station and he asked that I QSL him via his grandfather. It was his grandfather that was his Elmer just like I am doing with one of my grandkids. As for my daughter, the Ham Radio interest got overridden by her having six kids early on in her marriage. Had it not been for that enormous responsibility, I believe she would have gotten her ticket.

When is the last time you called up your kid's Middle School and asked the Science teacher if you could do a presentation on Ham Radio? I used to do that when I was able-bodied during Engineer's Week. What you do is find a themed week like that for radio perhaps around Marconi's first transatlantic communication on December 12, 1901. December 12th or thereabouts would be a good time to try to do a science presentation. Engineer's Week is February 21–27, 2016 this year (National Engineers Week | National Society of Professional Engineers). That is another good opportunity to promote Radio Engineering with a presentation on Ham Radio.

There are lots of opportunities; you just have to be creative.

As an Elmer to several people now; both young and old, I have hopes that one day we may see some new hams. And the equipment need not cost thousands of dollars. Take them to a hamfest and get them some old "Novice Class" equipment for less than $100 and help them get their Technician License. They can operate CW on 80, 40, 15, and 10 Meters as well as voice on 10 meters and VHF/UHF.

In conclusion, I personally feel that as long as we have Elmers to do these things that Ham Radio will GROW; not shrink. Time will tell. Like the Stock Market, you have to be in it for the long run with its ups and downs. Ham Radio will have its ups and downs but I think Ham Radio is here to stay. There are just way too many aspects of the Ham Radio hobby that some people, not everyone, will find interesting.

73, Dave K4EET/AE

Great post Dave!

I am going to bring this subject up at my next ARES meeting and see what interest the group would have in doing a presentation at our high school. My son is a Cadet Major in his school's JROTC unit and I could easily see service minded kids in JROTC maybe taking an interest in ham radio if someone presented it to them. I think I would be a great opportunity for Elmers in the group to provide ham radio exposure to young folks. My daughters are girl scouts and my wife and I have already discussed doing a presentation for their Troop.

Maybe try and work on my son some more too..... :D Unfortunately he has shown no interest in my new found hobby and actually thinks his dad is weirdo for talking to strangers on the radio, but I haven't tried the service angle on him yet.

The other day my 10 year old daughter saw my call sign that I have prominently displayed on the wall of my shack and asked, "Daddy is that your radio code-word." I guess she has overheard me using it repeatedly during net check-ins, etc and assumed it was the "code word" needed to use the radio....

Point is, I was ecstatic she had even asked about it. :)
 

N0VGL

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I see this topic pop up on occasion on many of the amateur radio related forums I peruse from time to time. I, for one, don't care. It takes a certain personality type to enjoy amateur radio. There are enough aspects to the hobby that it can maintain interest throughout one's life. One cannot make a person be interested in amateur radio by making it a requirement for a merit badge, or a project for a class in school. I believe some people will take an interest in the hobby, or not.
 

NDRADIONUT

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Yes but they have to have some exposure to the hobby to even decide if there is an interest or not...
 

KE0GXN

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Echo Mike Two-Seven
This is an interesting issue and it is NOT new. In the past the Scouts did foster some young activity, and some high schools did have ham radio clubs, and both of those avenues have been diminished, especially school ham clubs. But this hobby has always been an older person hobby.

Think about it. Middle aged people have more disposable income to put towards such a hobby. Retired folks have more time to put towards the hobby. Young folks most often have limited income, and more activities to make demands on their time.

In the past (say in the post WW II to mid 1970’s time period, sometime thought of as the golden age of ham radio) a young person with limited financial resources would very often build his first transmitter, although he would likely have a manufactured receiver. For a couple dollars in junk TV parts you could build a nice 75 Watt input, crystal controlled, CW only transmitter for HF. And since you HAD to know Code to be licensed, this was adequate to get you on the air, indeed this is all you were allowed as a Novice or a Technician on HF. Remember in the time period I am talking about FM on VHF was not a very popular thing, it existed but was pretty new and equipment tended to be harder to get or more expensive.

Store bought transmitter / receiver pairs or transceivers were expensive. In 1965 the Swan 350 transceiver, not a particularly good unit or brand, listed for $395, or about $3000 in 2016 dollars. A low end Conar (a cheap brand) Model 300 / 400 transmitter receiver pair sold, assembled, for $103 ($780 in 2016 dollars), and in kit form for $90 ($680 in 2016 dollars). A top of the line KWM-2a, without accessories, was about $1200 in 1965, or about $9100 in 2016 dollars. To put that in perspective, the median price of a home in the US that year was about $21000, and a big block Corvette was under $5000.

So in 1967 when I got my novice license (as a teenager) I went on the air with a home brew transmitter and a third hand manufactured receiver. I was limited (by regulation as well as my gear) to 75 Watts of input power (about 45 Watts output), I was crystal controlled, and I could use CW only, no voice, on HF. Grand total I had maybe $50 in the gear, call it $300 today.

I HAD to advance my license in 2 years if I wanted to stay in ham radio, the Novice license was not renewable at that time, so after 2 years I had to move up in license class (and so immerse myself deeper in the hobby) or not do ham radio.

In general I would say that ham radio itself has never been as enticing to young people as it is today. It has never been faster, easier, or cheaper (in real value) to get on the air in any band and mode you want. It seems it is much better suited to young people entering the hobby. However the competition is much more today. And build a radio to get on the air? Puh-leeze. It is NO harder to do that today than in the past, and arguably less expensive in real cost. But it takes time and effort, and you still end up (at the cheap end of the scale) with a transmitter that works in a mode that most new hams today have no knowledge of or desire to operate in. That is not very much of a draw compared to a $40 Chinese HT.

Cell phones, social media, game consoles, the internet, etc, all take up time and income. They all have more instant “pop” than ham radio and few of them require any real commitment to get involved. And if you think about ham radio ONLY for communications it simply cannot compete with these other things, but ham was never only about communications. It was about the path to getting to communications, and experimentation / learning once you got there.

And so today, as in ANY time in the past, the majority of the active hams are older, typically middle aged or older. There are probably more (by percentage) pre-middle aged people actually licensed, but the most active hams still seem to fit that mold. Possibly because they have the money and the time to pursue the activity.

What will happen to the hobby when the Millennials reach middle age? I am betting the folks who had a latent interest in ham radio but never pursued it will start to rise in the hobby. To some extent you can see that happening now. But I am a little worried that ham radio simply will not be able to compete by the time Generation Z hits that same point of life.

T!

Thanks for that informative view, I learned a lot just reading it. I think you are right on the money (no pun intended) when you speak about costs and time. My wife and I trying to provide for and raise 3 kids and finding the "disposable" income to spend on getting where I want to be in the hobby almost seems unattainable at this point. So I can definitely see "the why" in regards to older folks being as active as they are in their later years.

My first club meeting I attended in my area was themed a "show and tell" night in regards to member's shacks and equipment and as I watched the slide show and heard guys pointing out their gear all I could wonder the whole time is, what do these guys do for living and how are they able to afford all this gear...?

Yes many were older and probably empty nesters, but still yet I soon realized this is going to a LONG process for me by the time I get to where I would like to be equipment wise and maybe it was for them too, but man, some of these guys had some nice set-ups.

For me, day dreaming about mine has kept me motivated and occupied so far. :)
 
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robertmac

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But the younger people coming up will not know how to converse. Unfortunately, conversing is in texting using acronyms [unfortunately, don't make as much sense as Q codes or CW]. They are so engrossed with the internet, video games as well. Even today, some hams only are active on digital [non voice] modes. So it seems like we have come into the world of no voice communications. Just my opinion.
 

KE0GXN

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But the younger people coming up will not know how to converse. Unfortunately, conversing is in texting using acronyms [unfortunately, don't make as much sense as Q codes or CW]. They are so engrossed with the internet, video games as well. Even today, some hams only are active on digital [non voice] modes. So it seems like we have come into the world of no voice communications. Just my opinion.

Oh yeah, my son is the perfect example of that. I tease him all the time about never using the dial up function on his cellphone. Everything is text or Facebook when he wants to communicate with his friends. He rarely texts me because he knows better, I am probably the only soul he actually calls with his phone.

I can't get him off the his X-Box either....
 
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