Ham Radio Digital Modes: Which Will Survive The Test of Time?

[hill]

DMR for me and all via repeater, since don't own a hotspot. A hotspot is not needed for anywhere I travel in SE Pennsylvania, Delaware or Maryland wth the Interstate Repeater System on DMR. I have linked this from the WR3IRS website below. I am on DMR at least once a week and we have a great net each week on the Maryland talkgroup.

I only use the local or statewide talkgroups. Also don't have the complete user database in the radios, just the ids of people I talk with.

I do have Fusion but don't really like the mode. It does sound great though.

Really like to make some contacts on P25 with my TK-5210s. We do have a few 2M P25 repeaters, but like DMR more on 70CM with more open repeater pairs in the area on 440. Need to find some TK-5310s at good price with a good P25 repeater near work.

Would love to be able use P25 simplex like when at a hamfest, since I see hams walking around with P25 radios, but would need to program in the frequency prior to event. I have played around with both DMR and P25 simplex at home, but never had a QSO with another ham. Both DMR and P25 simplex sound good.

WR3IRS - Interstate Repeater System

The Interstate Repeater System is a network of linked DMR repeaters serving the mid-Atlantic region.

www.wr3irs.com

Interstate DMR

www.delmarvadmr.com

 

[AK9R]

1 in 10 amateurs in the US had enough interest in DMR in the past few years to apply for an ID. That is A LOT of interest.

That's a lot of people signing up for something that they don't use. You can't ignore the number of assigned DMR IDs for which there is no activity. Interest does not equal actual use.

There is just no comparison when you compare that to other digital modes. It is nowhere close.

How did you come to that conclusion? Where can we see the number of people who actually use D-STAR or Fusion?

I believe that my point remains. We have no reliable means of measuring digital voice activity just like we have no reliable means of measuring total on-air activity for all of amateur radio. As promoted by Mark Twain: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

 

[jeepsandradios]

And on top of it there are folks who use P25 and DMR that dont get an ID. A subscriber doesn't normally care what is entered. I had a guy on my P25 repeater with an ID of 1. I asked him what his real ID was and he was a ghost. He had no clue he needed to register. So while DMR hotspots help elevate that issue if its a local repeater there really is no reason to get a ID

 

[fasteddy64]

And I'll say again, all you have to do is look at the userbase. There are over 202,000 unique call signs with DMR IDs worldwide, over 89,000 in the US. More than 1 out of every 10 hams in the US have a DMR ID. Let that sink in for a minute. No other mode comes anywhere close to that.....not even somewhat close.

You can keep saying how there are no DMR repeaters near you until the cows come home. That doesn't change the facts.

Do you have statistics on how many are actually using the mode?
I think I got one when I got my Openspot.
I have never used the mode.

 

[nd5y]

Do you have statistics on how many are actually using the mode?

Some of the digital newtorks have web pages with statistics, including realtime online activity.
A list is at Amateur Radio - The RadioReference Wiki.
If people aren't using a network then there is no way to tell.

 

[K7MFC]

You can't ignore the number of assigned DMR IDs for which there is no activity.

What is that number?

 

[k7ng]

See post 91

 

[BMDaug]

See post 91

That’s a total number of assigned IDs. @K7MFC is asking about the number of inactive versus active IDs. So it of those 89,000 assigned IDs, how many are actually used, and with what frequency?

-B

 

[k7ng]

I doubt such a statistic exists.

 

[kb9mwr]

The compelling feature is that it's open source and uses an open source CODEC. No reliance on an individual radio manufacturer, like with Yaesu System Fusion or D-STAR (yes, I know, Kenwood has produced a D-STAR radio in the past, but they don't now). No reliance on a single CODEC manufacturer.

I am well aware of that, and Linux and Open Source user and promoter myself. The question is really a matter of how many hams does that really matter to?

 

[AE4NG]

I don’t think any one will prevail over another. That’s the nice thing about ham radio. There is room for all of them to survive. From the older PSK and RTTY to today’s FT8, DSTAR, DMR, P25, etc… and to whatever the future may bring, they can all survive because that’s exactly what ham radio is! In my personal opinion, ham radio is the reason we have so many wonderful modes, whether digital or analog, to enjoy!

This is my view and opinion only and yours may, and probably will differ.

Have a great one and 73!

 

[kb9mwr]

Honestly in my opinion the two way market isn't healthy. A lot of things have moved to cellular. So it would not surprise me to see another two manufactures merge. Honestly I am not sure how Yaesu is making it ago with just the amateur market now that they don't have a commerical arm. The test of time is determined by sales. If

The compelling feature is that it's open source and uses an open source CODEC. No reliance on an individual radio manufacturer, like with Yaesu System Fusion or D-STAR (yes, I know, Kenwood has produced a D-STAR radio in the past, but they don't now). No reliance on a single CODEC manufacturer.

Right now as I understand it there is a complicated hardware mod that can be done to a MD-380 radio to make it work for M17. Again I love open source, and have a good soldering station and skills as I am a home brewer, but I see no compelling reason to monkey with this. If they create a firmware that has at least one legacy mode supported in addition to M17 then I will likely consider it. Right now another incompatible digital voice mode that does what all the others does is a yawn.

 

[AK9R]

Honestly I am not sure how Yaesu is making it ago with just the amateur market...

Yaesu and Standard Horizon make amateur radio, marine radio, and aviation radio products.

 

[kb9mwr]

Yaesu and Standard Horizon make amateur radio, marine radio, and aviation radio products.

The joint ownership changed in 2012 back to soley amateur. From 2007-2012 Motorola owned part of the company. Prior to that they had a relationship with Standard Horizon

see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaesu_(brand)

 

[AK9R]

The joint ownership changed in 2012 back to soley amateur.

From the referenced Wikipedia article: The Amateur Radio, Airband and Marine Radio business was transferred to the new company "Yaesu Musen".

 

[kb9mwr]

From the referenced Wikipedia article: The Amateur Radio, Airband and Marine Radio business was transferred to the new company "Yaesu Musen".

Well then I should have know to take what Dennis K7BV said in that one DCC video when he was talking about their digital junk with a grain of salt. This makes more sense, that they still do have other arms.

 

[ladn]

From the referenced Wikipedia article: The Amateur Radio, Airband and Marine Radio business was transferred to the new company "Yaesu Musen".

And Vertex, sadly, stayed under the Motorola umbrella.

 

[hlober]

This has been a really great discussion, and I especially appreciate how dissenting viewpoints have been treated respectfully and discussed nicely. After all, isn’t that the best way?

I’ve always been an HF guy but I’ve recently started DMR, I enjoyed the challenge of populating my code plug all of my own and I make a few QSO’s from time to time. It’s just one other facet of this relaxing and amazing hobby.

thankfully the technology is inexpensive enough and it allows you to change horses once in a while. My choice of DMR came down strictly to the repairs in my area and the availability of a decent radio.

I sure do appreciate everything I’ve learned from reading this reflector.

Herb
VE7HV

 

[K6GBW]

Found this late. I think that market forces will eventually dictate. With the rise in popularity of PTT over Cellular, I don't see LMR being a thing much beyond small repeaters for big businesses like casinos, hotels, etc. Probably going to be DMR and P25 for public safety. Many radio makers are now producing LMR radios that are preprogrammed with the business band frequencies so no real programming is even necessary. So in the end the big players will survive.

 

[JASII]

I spent a little bit of time recently scanning the D-Star repeaters near me. While I don't have an traditional D-Star transceivers, I am scanning the repeater frequencies in the analog mode to see the level of activity on them. As a point of reference, I live in the Minneapolis-Saint Paul (Twin Cities) Metropolitan area. I monitored 21 different repeater frequencies. Over the course of several days I heard zero activity. The receiver was connected to a PC for logging purposes. I also checked the website that shows Icom D-Star activity and none of my local repeaters listed any activity, recently.

Conversely, I have listened to XLX Multiprotocol Gateway Reflector XLX632 and there is activity there. I have looked at the run down of who is connecting via RF vs hotspots. There certainly are people connecting using repeaters. I am just saying that the D-Star repeaters near me are very quiet.

Of course, that is also true of other digital modes, as well. Probably some with repeaters and some with hotspots.