Hartford Fire

[oneadam-12]

Was listening to Hartford fire today and the district car said on the dispatch and fire incident 1 channel for all units to switch to fireground 1. After a while they went back to incident 1. Has anyone else heard this and if so, would you know were fireground 1 is. I'm thinking maybe CLMRN but my 396xt willn't get CLMRN but my 996p2 does but I was out at the time and couldn't check.

 

[n1chu]

I believe HFD is only using CLMRN for dispatch. (It’s my understanding you must bring your own FCC allocated frequencies to the CLMRN in order for CLMRN to accommodate. The State of Ct. will not simply add you to an existing batch of trunked frequencies and give you unique TG’s. I wonder why HFD didn’t take their simplex Incident channel frequencies to CLMRN at the same time they signed up their dispatch? I believe Tac or Incident channels are simplex, possibly not all but they are listed in RR. I have no trouble hearing HFD dispatch in Farmington near Tunxis Community College but haven’t put any effort into monitoring the incident channels as yet.

I posted this reply in the hopes someone would correct any ideas I have expressed which are wrong concerning HFD. I’m really at a loss to understand the reasoning behind doing what they did. It’s understood they needed to upgrade their citywide system due to obsolescence or end-of-life equipment for their system but why did they choose to only put dispatch on CLMRN? Maybe they will provide more frequencies in the future? Or, are they finding using simplex has better saturation on the fire ground?

 

[cg]

Fire Dispatch - CLMRN
Incident 1-5 are 700 MHz low power analog going into P25 mobile repeaters that feed into the 800MHz P25 conventional repeaters.
I believe Talkaround/Fireground is 857.2625 pl 167.9 analog low power but I haven't confirmed that in years

 

[oneadam-12]

I forget about that channel (857.2625) because in the past they would say go to talkaround and I haven't heard anything either on that channel. I guess you have to be right close.

 

[n1chu]

On another HFD note… I heard what sounded exactly like one of the types of encryption on the HFD dispatch TG. It was only once and didn’t last long. I believe it was an encrypted transmission. I am treating what I heard as an anomaly, a tech doing some work on the system or a test (if HFD has an encrypted channel in the wings. It’s not a stretch to accept there might be a citywide channel reserved for heads of depts that can deal with sensitive information that needs to be pushed out in a timely manner. Encryption may not necessarily be a part of the daily routine operations in Hartford on all channels/TG’s but its possible it’s there just in case. Of course, this is only a guess. But not to avail themselves of the capability when it is available is short sighted. If it’s offered, grab it… you can put it up on the shelf until you come up with a need for it later.

 

[jperuta]

On another HFD note… I heard what sounded exactly like one of the types of encryption on the HFD dispatch TG. It was only once and didn’t last long. I believe it was an encrypted transmission. I am treating what I heard as an anomaly, a tech doing some work on the system or a test (if HFD has an encrypted channel in the wings. It’s not a stretch to accept there might be a citywide channel reserved for heads of depts that can deal with sensitive information that needs to be pushed out in a timely manner. Encryption may not necessarily be a part of the daily routine operations in Hartford on all channels/TG’s but its possible it’s there just in case. Of course, this is only a guess. But not to avail themselves of the capability when it is available is short sighted. If it’s offered, grab it… you can put it up on the shelf until you come up with a need for it later.

When was that transmission?

 

[n1chu]

When was that transmission?

Don’t remember exactly… about a week ago…

 

[jperuta]

I forget about that channel (857.2625) because in the past they would say go to talkaround and I haven't heard anything either on that channel. I guess you have to be right close.

I believe it’s a quarter of a mile. Or right on the scene to hear it.

 

[APX7500X2]

It’s my understanding you must bring your own FCC allocated frequencies to the CLMRN in order for CLMRN to accommodate. The State of Ct. will not simply add you to an existing batch of trunked frequencies and give you unique TG’s.

So far all they do is add departments without bringing their own channels, Stamford, New Brittan & Bridgeport are on the core but are campus systems

 

[n1chu]

So far all they do is add departments without bringing their own channels, Stamford, New Brittan & Bridgeport are on the core but are campus systems

I guess it’s the terminology that’s part of my problem… I’ve got to do some more reading and understand “core” and “campus systems”, how the relate to each other…

 

[matt04]

So far all they do is add departments without bringing their own channels, Stamford, New Brittan & Bridgeport are on the core but are campus systems

The larger cities that joined essentially brought their own channels or will with Bridgeport. They may have some criteria for larger cities and require them to bring their own spectrum.

Most smaller towns that join only have a few TGs but, say, Hartford has probably a dozen or more PD TGs alone. No need for that to cover all of the Troop H area.

 

[awasser1]

I am in Bloomfield and I can only hear incident 1-4 occassionally. I have heard tests of them over the months where they sounded and showed signal strengths like going through a repeater. but most I don't get either. Sometimes those are the best channels to hear during a fire.

Alec
N1AJW

 

[n1chu]

The larger cities that joined essentially brought their own channels or will with Bridgeport. They may have some criteria for larger cities and require them to bring their own spectrum.

Most smaller towns that join only have a few TGs but, say, Hartford has probably a dozen or more PD TGs alone. No need for that to cover all of the Troop H area.

Thank you for your input. My understanding of what Hartford has in mind is still lacking however… with the PD still on their old EDACS trunked system, and (as I understand it) the reason for moving off EDACS is the system is no longer supported due to age, a lack of support (hardware, etc.). So, we know Hartford has to retire the existing EDACS and find other comms alternatives. But the PD is still sitting on the antiquated EDACS. This curses me to suspect Hartford is moving away from EDACS in stages… meaning we haven’t heard the last from them. There must be more to come. These (yet to be realized changes-I haven't yet researched RR in full about what Hartford may have in mind) are what I’m curious about.

 

[n1chu]

I am in Bloomfield and I can only hear incident 1-4 occassionally. I have heard tests of them over the months where they sounded and showed signal strengths like going through a repeater. but most I don't get either. Sometimes those are the best channels to hear during a fire.

Alec
N1AJW

Agreed.

 

[cg]

The 800 MHz repeaters are located on top of The Hartford building along with the EDACS system. I can receive them in Granby with an outside antenna. However, it could be local interference that prevents you from hearing them if you are so close, perhaps a nearby cell site.

chris

 

[matt04]

Thank you for your input. My understanding of what Hartford has in mind is still lacking however… with the PD still on their old EDACS trunked system, and (as I understand it) the reason for moving off EDACS is the system is no longer supported due to age, a lack of support (hardware, etc.). So, we know Hartford has to retire the existing EDACS and find other comms alternatives. But the PD is still sitting on the antiquated EDACS. This curses me to suspect Hartford is moving away from EDACS in stages… meaning we haven’t heard the last from them. There must be more to come. These (yet to be realized changes-I haven't yet researched RR in full about what Hartford may have in mind) are what I’m curious about.

I agree. We will see more changes. Will that mean they move to CLMRN as their own site like New Britain or Bridgeport is doing, or, will they build out their own stand alone P25 system? Will Public Works and schools move to a DMR system as those tend to have cheaper subsociber units? Only time will tell.

Edit: Currently they have 14 pairs on the EDACS system for 14 talk paths. If they move to P25 Phase II, which is very likely, that leaves them 13 pairs for voice traffic and 26 talk paths.

 

[n1chu]

I agree. We will see more changes. Will that mean they move to CLMRN as their own site like New Britain or Bridgeport is doing, or, will they build out their own stand alone P25 system? Will Public Works and schools move to a DMR system as those tend to have cheaper subsociber units? Only time will tell.

Edit: Currently they have 14 pairs on the EDACS system for 14 talk paths. If they move to P25 Phase II, which is very likely, that leaves them 13 pairs for voice traffic and 26 talk paths.

That’s also my understanding. P25 P2 (or DMR) should double their ability. So, it’s not like they are forced into an improper fitting comms system, they do have choices. But have they explored using their 13/14 pairs on CLMRN? If so, what are the constraints… not ready from a budgetary standpoint? West Hartford went to a P25 P2 system and seem to be enjoying a robust system with interconnect ability. (There was some discussion about Hartford joining West Hartford but I believe that idea was discounted.) Thanks for your take on the subject. It seems there hasn’t been much insight on Hartford’s thinking, CG has offered his consistent reliable input, for which I thank him for but I guess at this point it’s wait and see.

 

[cg]

They want their own P25 system with all city agencies on it. They will access to other systems via ISSI (aka Wallingford, Middletown, etc).

chris

 

[n1chu]

They want their own P25 system with all city agencies on it. They will access to other systems via ISSI (aka Wallingford, Middletown, etc).

chris

Thanks Chris.

 

[jfr454]

Listening the last couple of evenings, sounds like HFD is simulcasting dispatch from CLMRN over 851.350 NAC120