Helo Communications

[mike_s104]

Yes, I am defending the system as I have extensive knowledge of it. All I'm saying is dont say "why have the system" when you are basing your comments on incidents in one part of the state. Just my opinion.

OK...why have the system HERE if they cannot train users to use it correctly. I guess I should have worded it better when I stated my opinion before.

 

[w4rez]

If the helos want interoperability on the system, then they need to buy the radios.

Does Wulfsberg or any other manufacturer make P25 radios that will work in a helo? I don't think it's possible to simply stick a Moto mobile in a helicopter and make it work.

The regional medical command radio system is quite extensive in WV. I'm not sure who owns/finances it, but I don't see why it would be so difficult to make it possible to patch .340 and maybe even med channels (or at least Med/Call 9 and 10) to a TG on the interop system, so that those that do not have access to P25 equipment have access to the system in the event that they need it. If nothing else, this could be implemented as an interim measure until the entire state is equipped with radios that are compatible with the Interop trunked system, if this ever happens.

 

[mike_s104]

Does Wulfsberg or any other manufacturer make P25 radios that will work in a helo? I don't think it's possible to simply stick a Moto mobile in a helicopter and make it work.

The regional medical command radio system is quite extensive in WV. I'm not sure who owns/finances it, but I don't see why it would be so difficult to make it possible to patch .340 and maybe even med channels (or at least Med/Call 9 and 10) to a TG on the interop system, so that those that do not have access to P25 equipment have access to the system in the event that they need it. If nothing else, this could be implemented as an interim measure until the entire state is equipped with radios that are compatible with the Interop trunked system, if this ever happens.

thank you... someone that understands what I was saying and sees the issues. patching like you said would resolve the problems within the areas with e new system but around here, tey have helicopters coming in from VA and MD.

 

[nickburns]

I understand what you are saying and have all along. Again, all I'm saying it is an excellent system and has nothing to do with some aeromedical incidents isolated to one part of the state. If they arent smart enough to work out their own issues, then shame on them. They'll learn in time....it takes something going wrong in this state before a solution is proposed.

 

[w4rez]

I understand what you are saying and have all along. Again, all I'm saying it is an excellent system and has nothing to do with some aeromedical incidents isolated to one part of the state. If they arent smart enough to work out their own issues, then shame on them. They'll learn in time....it takes something going wrong in this state before a solution is proposed.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here, or the "they" you're referring to.

If you're saying that the state will eventually realize that there's a problem such as this and will fix it, I hope you're right. Growing up in Logan Co., I know how much the area depends on Med Evac when there's a bad accident, and with the terrain comms with the helos isn't a luxury, it's a necessity.

Your typical medevac unit has frequency agile VHF and UHF analog radios with user selectable PL. This works great for "old school" interoperability but isn't going to work very well with digital and/or trunked systems. Like Mike said, there's out of state units that sometimes have to come in because they're the closest or because HealthNet isn't available. It would be unreasonable to expect all of these units to have radios dedicated to the WV Interop system when it's not their primary area of operation, particularly when a VHF radio with a user-selectable PL on 155.340 should be perfectly sufficient.

Fortunately, it appears that most, if not all EMS organizations in the state still have their analog VHF and UHF radios so for the time being they will be able to communicate with the helos. The problem will be when everybody but the helos are on the Interop system and have sold their old radios on eBay. Hopefully by then the state will have realized that interoperability with people on 155.340 is important, and will have implmented a crosspatch system to address it.

 

[mike_s104]

I understand what you are saying and have all along. Again, all I'm saying it is an excellent system and has nothing to do with some aeromedical incidents isolated to one part of the state. If they arent smart enough to work out their own issues, then shame on them. They'll learn in time....it takes something going wrong in this state before a solution is proposed.

glad you see what I was saying

I don't think the issue lies with the system exactly...I'm sure it can do what I have been saying and what "w4rez" (is that your amateur radio call?) was saying. yes, I think you're right that something tragic will need to happen until someone says "humm, let's fix that."

 

[nickburns]

w4rez, "they" are the agencies Mike was referring to. Bottom line is, every digital radio out there can still support analog channels so it boils down to an issue of training and protocols, not the state system.

 

[w4rez]

(is that your amateur radio call?)

Yeah :lol:

 

[mike_s104]

w4rez, "they" are the agencies Mike was referring to. Bottom line is, every digital radio out there can still support analog channels so it boils down to an issue of training and protocols, not the state system.

did not know that. I figured they should be able to in the case where the digital system would fail or for some reason they would need to switch to regular repeater system. so, if this is the case, should they have at least the med channel programmed in? I can see where the med channel would be possible but maybe not the 155 VHF freqs.

 

[nickburns]

Yes, they should have the MED channels programmed in and no, the VHF freqs would not be supported in the radios used on the WV system.

 

[ResQR405]

Berkeley County Helo Ops 1-4-07

You are correct, you did hear Medcom talk to the helicopters on 155.340. That is because 340 is the best way for them (medcom and helicopters) to communicate. Since we have gone to the trunking system, helicopters dont have the ability to digital trunk so they still use 340 to get the information while flying to the scene. Once they are close to the scene they contact the ground units on Helo 2 or Helo 1 which is just analog med channels 1 and 2 with a Berkeley County pl tone on them so the helicopters dont hear everything in the DC metro area on Med 1 and Med 2. We use the Helo 2 and 1 channels just as a simplex channel more less, so they can get the LZ brief from the Fire Dept or whoever is running LZ command. They portables Berkeley County has, do have both analog and digital talkgroups in them. They have Med 1-10, which are all analog. The only people that have the Helo 1 and Helo 2 channels are the units in the field both portables and mobiles. Central Dispatch does not have the ability to communicate on either of the Helo channels.

 

[mike_s104]

You are correct, you did hear Medcom talk to the helicopters on 155.340. That is because 340 is the best way for them (medcom and helicopters) to communicate. Since we have gone to the trunking system, helicopters dont have the ability to digital trunk so they still use 340 to get the information while flying to the scene. Once they are close to the scene they contact the ground units on Helo 2 or Helo 1 which is just analog med channels 1 and 2 with a Berkeley County pl tone on them so the helicopters dont hear everything in the DC metro area on Med 1 and Med 2. We use the Helo 2 and 1 channels just as a simplex channel more less, so they can get the LZ brief from the Fire Dept or whoever is running LZ command. They portables Berkeley County has, do have both analog and digital talkgroups in them. They have Med 1-10, which are all analog. The only people that have the Helo 1 and Helo 2 channels are the units in the field both portables and mobiles. Central Dispatch does not have the ability to communicate on either of the Helo channels.

thanks for the clarification.

 

[wv8mat]

i know with healthnet in west virginia, there are two designated freqs for aeromedical, 155.400 is aeromed 1 and 467.975 is aeromed 2, some counties in west virginia perfer to use 155.340 and pl/dpls are all over the place depending on where you are at.

 

[wm8s]

And that's only in part of the state. I think Healthnet-II is still on .160 for dispatch and will channel over to whatever the on-scene unit wants for fireground.

Some of you might not know, but 340 and the UHF Med Channels are part of a large statewide network that is microwave linked to the big medical command centers in Charleston, Morgantown, etc. (the same backbone that the statewide interop system and some other "projects" use). The EMS network consists of lots of remote receivers that the medcomm duty tech can select in order to communicate best with an on-scene unit.

 

[wv8mat]

i cant wait till all counties and all aeromedical services have to be on the uhf med channels and all units have to go direct to the medcom for their region instead of 50 different channels and people to talk to

 

[Grog]

Your typical medevac unit has frequency agile VHF and UHF analog radios with user selectable PL. This works great for "old school" interoperability but isn't going to work very well with digital and/or trunked systems.

Charlotte Meck TRS (NC) runs patches to conventional freqs all the time, and the local med help operates on the TRS as well.

If the people can't get their act together on something as simple as this, god help them.

 

[w4rez]

Charlotte Meck TRS (NC) runs patches to conventional freqs all the time, and the local med help operates on the TRS as well.

If the people can't get their act together on something as simple as this, god help them.

From what I'm reading it sounds like more of a beaurocratic limitation than a technical one.

Do Digital -> analog cross-patches have to sound so crappy? I can't speak for any others, but the P25 -> 155.400 analog patch here in Onslow County is sometimes unbearably painful to listen to. If that's how they all sound, then I can somewhat understand why the powers that be would not want them on their system.

 

[mike_s104]

From what I'm reading it sounds like more of a beaurocratic limitation than a technical one.

Do Digital -> analog cross-patches have to sound so crappy? I can't speak for any others, but the P25 -> 155.400 analog patch here in Onslow County is sometimes unbearably painful to listen to. If that's how they all sound, then I can somewhat understand why the powers that be would not want them on their system.

I've heard Loudoun County VA (digital P25) patches to Jefferson County WV (VHF analog) and they sound fine.

 

[mike_s104]

see my post here:

http://www.radioreference.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66290

nothing has changed with to helo communications

 

[Gilligan]

Confirming Helo 1 as 468.000 in a direct mode and Helo 2 as 468.025 in a direct mode. this comes from frequency counting an actual portable on the system.

Once they are close to the scene they contact the ground units on Helo 2 or Helo 1 which is just analog med channels 1 and 2 with a Berkeley County pl tone on them so the helicopters dont hear everything in the DC metro area on Med 1 and Med 2. We use the Helo 2 and 1 channels just as a simplex channel more less, so they can get the LZ brief from the Fire Dept or whoever is running LZ command. They portables Berkeley County has, do have both analog and digital talkgroups in them. They have Med 1-10, which are all analog. The only people that have the Helo 1 and Helo 2 channels are the units in the field both portables and mobiles.

What is the PL tone for Berkeley County medical? Can someone submit these channels?

Also, which helos actually use these channels? Medevac?

Basic description (helo landing zone ops, etc..)
468.000 LICENSE? MO xxx.x PL HELO 1 FM
468.025 LICENSE? MO xxx.x PL HELO 2 FM