Help finding a Multi-band Low Profile Antenna

[KHolloway63]

I have a public safety agency that is looking for a low profile antenna to be paired with a Motorola APX 8500. They are looking specifically for one manufactured by Laird Technologies, does anyone know of the model number for an antenna that would work with VHF, UHF R2, and 7/800? I have found one manufactured by RFMAX but their lead time is longer than ideal. Thanks for the help!

I understand the benefits of avoiding low profile antennas however that is what the agency specifically requested from us.

 

[mmckenna]

Why are they specifically asking for Laird?

And, what is your definition of "low profile"?

I'm running both Larsen and EM Wave multiband antennas hooked up to Harris XL-200M's. They are about 18" tall. Both have performed very well. I swept both with an analyzer and they do what they say they will do.

The county shop here tried the two PC Tel/Motorola antennas. The original ones had a bad habit of snapping off at the base when they found a low tree branch. The newer version that has the large spring flops all over the place and makes a ton of noise inside the vehicle. I tried one for a total of 15 minutes before I pulled it off and put the EM Wave back on the roof.

If by low profile you are looking for the 'puck' type or soup can type antennas, I'm not sure I've seen one from a reputable company. Usually they perform horribly on VHF.

 

[FFPM571]

low profile as in size or low profile as in discreet? Panorama makes some that look like shark fin anteennas with a whip that look very modern and european... caveat is you cant fit all bands into neat little package

 

[KHolloway63]

I apologize, I should have been more specific with that! They are looking for a puck or shark fin style antenna. I am aware of the poor performance on VHF but luckily their primary tower for the city is 7/800 and they have been made aware of the down sides. Currently they are running whip antennas (not sure of actual length but relatively low profile) and they keep snapping them off at car washes and the occasional parking garage or low tree branch.

As for the brand, they had a Laird antenna installed on a vehicle by another company and they were told it works with their radios. I have a suspicion that the antenna on that car is only 7/800 and no one told them. I plan on taking it off to check the model number at some point when I can track that car down.

I'll check in to the Larsen and EM Wave antennas and see if I can propose them as an alternative and see what they say.

Thanks both for the help so far!

 

[prcguy]

Above is the main multiband antenna that Laird makes and if this is what your looking for there are many other options. The Larsen and EM Wave mentioned above have a smaller profile and similar performance to the Laird. If you want shorter without loosing much and if the antenna will go on a trunk or something other than the roof you might look at this one. Its only 9" tall but works very similar to others 16" to 18" tall. Its only drawback I find is its very stiff with no spring and you want to avoid it hitting anything.

COMPACtenna LMR-1

 

[mmckenna]

I apologize, I should have been more specific with that! They are looking for a puck or shark fin style antenna. I am aware of the poor performance on VHF but luckily their primary tower for the city is 7/800 and they have been made aware of the down sides. Currently they are running whip antennas (not sure of actual length but relatively low profile) and they keep snapping them off at car washes and the occasional parking garage or low tree branch.

I think they'd underestimate how badly they'd suck on VHF. The puck style VHF antennas are limited to about 1MHz of bandwidth, so any of the VHF Interop frequencies would be a challenge. They also perform really poorly. Like RELLY poorly.

As for the brand, they had a Laird antenna installed on a vehicle by another company and they were told it works with their radios. I have a suspicion that the antenna on that car is only 7/800 and no one told them. I plan on taking it off to check the model number at some point when I can track that car down.

Yeah, worth a double check.

I'll check in to the Larsen and EM Wave antennas and see if I can propose them as an alternative and see what they say.

Thanks both for the help so far!

Both the Larsen and EM Wave have springs fairly close to the base of the antenna. I've run both on my work truck, and I've run up some overgrown site access roads where the antennas found a lot of low branches and let me know audibly that they were there. Neither had a problem with it.
As for car washes, my truck is too big, so never tried one. I'd be cautious with any antenna in a car wash.

I'd be concerned about a police department that doesn't understand the importance of their radios and the importance of a good antenna. Low profile should be at the bottom of the list of requirements for any marked vehicle (and then someone should erase it).

If they want shark fin/OEM looking antennas, then here's an option:

Covert Shark Fin Antenna - Triband

sti-co.com

If they really want low profile, as in NO antenna, send them this:

Covert Tri-Band Sun Shade Antenna

sti-co.com

But make sure you tell them that transmitting with a 50 watt radio that close to human occupants isn't a good idea.

 

[AYoung2600]

There is this antenna that is made by Larsen. Our rep brought one by to look at, but I have never actually used one so I don't know how well they work.

Product Finder – Pulse Electronics

productfinder.pulseelectronics.com

 

[mmckenna]

There is this antenna that is made by Larsen. Our rep brought one by to look at, but I have never actually used one so I don't know how well they work.

Product Finder – Pulse Electronics

productfinder.pulseelectronics.com

That's new, haven't seen that before.

Couple of things to consider:

VHF bandwidth is quite narrow. 3.5:1 SWR across 4MHz of bandwidth. That may be a challenge if they expect to use VHF interop channels, or any local agencies that use anything outside 153-157MHz.

Needs a 7/8" hole, which isn't really a problem if this is a new install, but if they are swapping out existing NMO mounts, they'll need a chassis punch to open up the existing hole to fit. Or someone who is really careful with the christmas tree drill bit.

You absolutely need to have access to the underside of the panel that is being mounted on to get in their with a wrench to tighten them down. May not be an issue for some installs, but might require dropping the headliner on others.


I do have a Larsen antenna sort of like that on my work truck, but it's for LTE/WiFi/GPS. VHF, UHF, 7/800 is on the EM Wave multiband whip on an NMO mount.

 

[AYoung2600]

That's new, haven't seen that before.

Couple of things to consider:

VHF bandwidth is quite narrow. 3.5:1 SWR across 4MHz of bandwidth. That may be a challenge if they expect to use VHF interop channels, or any local agencies that use anything outside 153-157MHz.

Needs a 7/8" hole, which isn't really a problem if this is a new install, but if they are swapping out existing NMO mounts, they'll need a chassis punch to open up the existing hole to fit. Or someone who is really careful with the christmas tree drill bit.

You absolutely need to have access to the underside of the panel that is being mounted on to get in their with a wrench to tighten them down. May not be an issue for some installs, but might require dropping the headliner on others.


I do have a Larsen antenna sort of like that on my work truck, but it's for LTE/WiFi/GPS. VHF, UHF, 7/800 is on the EM Wave multiband whip on an NMO mount.

From what I understand they were designed specifically for a large state agency. They primarily are on 7/800 and I'm guessing the VHF side of it is just for a couple of statewide interop channels that fall within that range, which would make sense for the narrow bandwith.

 

[mmckenna]

They may want to consider 3 separate antennas.
Pretty easy to do low profile 800MHz.
UHF isn't super hard with passable results.
VHF is going to suck either way.

But I think "low profile" is an opinion thing. I don't think a 3.5" tall black box sitting on top of a vehicle is low profile by any stretch of the imagination. A thin whip often blends in with the sky/background.

But then there's the ever present car wash issue.

 

[AYoung2600]

They may want to consider 3 separate antennas.
Pretty easy to do low profile 800MHz.
UHF isn't super hard with passable results.
VHF is going to suck either way.

But I think "low profile" is an opinion thing. I don't think a 3.5" tall black box sitting on top of a vehicle is low profile by any stretch of the imagination. A thin whip often blends in with the sky/background.

But then there's the ever present car wash issue.

It is apparently their solution to ripping antennas off after switching from cars to SUVs. They are currently using the standard Larsen tri-band whips. It wouldn’t be my first choice on a fully marked cruiser, but I guess if it works for them that’s all that matters. I have yet to actually see one on a vehicle.

 

[mmckenna]

Our cars get hand washed. No drive through car washes.

Antennas are just too important to compromise on. But sometimes you gotta do what the guy with the stars on his collar says...

 

[FFPM571]

IF its a car wash issue get the sti-co flexi whip...

 

[prcguy]

IF its a car wash issue get the sti-co flexi whip...

The Sti-co multiband flexi whip doesn't look like it would do well in a car wash.

 

[MUTNAV]

This is a little OT since it isn't really a solution being offered, but don't most cars come with factory installed antennas (for the car companies purposes), or radio reception.... They don't get ripped off in a car wash, and if it looks like it is supposed to coming from the factory, wouldn't that be a low social profile?

or am I way off base on this track of thinking.

Thanks
Joel

 

[rf_patriot200]

I have a public safety agency that is looking for a low profile antenna to be paired with a Motorola APX 8500. They are looking specifically for one manufactured by Laird Technologies, does anyone know of the model number for an antenna that would work with VHF, UHF R2, and 7/800? I have found one manufactured by RFMAX but their lead time is longer than ideal. Thanks for the help!

I understand the benefits of avoiding low profile antennas however that is what the agency specifically requested from us.

The Larsen Pulse 150/450/758 tri band might work ? It's a Black nmo whip at 18" and rated at 100w I think.

 

[mmckenna]

The Larsen Pulse 150/450/758 tri band might work ? It's a Black nmo whip at 18" and rated at 100w I think.

That's what I'm running (post #2 above) and they work fine. Sounds like the agency wants something lower profile than that.

I ran it on the work truck for a while, swapped it out with the EM Wave version. I put the Larsen on my personal truck since it's thinner and blends in better.

 

[FFPM571]

The Sti-co multiband flexi whip doesn't look like it would do well in a car wash.

They do well they are flexible enough for car washes. Though they are as ugly as sin

 

[rf_patriot200]

They do well they are flexible enough for car washes. Though they are as ugly as sin

Yeah, they are Strange looking for sure.

 

[APX8000]

There is this antenna that is made by Larsen. Our rep brought one by to look at, but I have never actually used one so I don't know how well they work.

Product Finder – Pulse Electronics

productfinder.pulseelectronics.com

I'd be interested in seeing how one of these perform...considering I have to keep yelling at people for taking the whip off their Sti-co sharkfin "because it looks more covert" but then complain how their radio goes OOR....