How do I find the FCC-ID for this very old walkie talkie?

[KE7IZL]

I was looking at vintage radio equipment on Ebay, and I noticed a pattern, that they often don't have an FCC-ID on them, just a statement of compliance. For example here Pair Of Vintage Realistifone Walkie Talkies TRC-2 Transceiver W/ Case CV JD | eBay is a walkie talkies that has an FCC part 15 compliance statement but nowhere is there an FCC-ID. Is the very idea of having an FCC-ID for a product (or at least the requirement that it be printed directly on the product) a relatively new thing (like just within the past few decades)? Or was it just that a long time ago the FCC didn't often enforce the requirement to print the device's FCC-ID on the product, so companies tended to save a few bucks by not bothering to print it?

By the way, I know this is the CB Radio section, but I couldn't find one for vintage walkie talkies (which is the type of equipment I'm talking about here, and I couldn't find a section for these). So note to moderators, please don't delete this post if this happens to be the wrong section to post this. This walkie talkie I mentioned may use the CB walkie talkie channel (channel 14) or it may use a completely different frequency band.

 

[mmckenna]

walkie talkies that has an FCC part 15 compliance statement but nowhere is there an FCC-ID.

I don't believe they were required to have an FCC ID back then.
I believe the rules were if these radios were under a certain power limit, they fell under Part 15, not Part 95. The Part 15 rules only required the compliance with Part 15 statement. They didn't require Part 95 certification, even though they often operated on CB Channel 14.

 

[KE7IZL]

I don't believe they were required to have an FCC ID back then.
I believe the rules were if these radios were under a certain power limit, they fell under Part 15, not Part 95. The Part 15 rules only required the compliance with Part 15 statement. They didn't require Part 95 certification, even though they often operated on CB Channel 14.

I thought that every radio emitting device, including low power part 15 devices were required to obtain an FCC-ID.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Ham radios only have to comply with Part 15. Low power 100 mw walkie talkies are categorically part 15.

 

[mmckenna]

I thought that every radio emitting device, including low power part 15 devices were required to obtain an FCC-ID.

Part 15 is different than Part 90, 95, 80, etc. "Certificate of conformity" I think is/was the term that was used. Part 15 also had two types, unintentional radiators, and intentional radiators. The low power (100mw or less) CB radios didn't need it, just like the 49MHz walkie talkies.

And as R-E-G said above, amateur radio equipment does not require type acceptance on the transmitters (one of the several reasons they can be used on other radio services). He correctly pointed out that the FCC tag on the back refers to the "scanning receiver" functionality.

Also, things change. Those are old walkie talkies you are looking at. A lot of FCC stuff has changed since then.

 

[KE7IZL]

Part 15 is different than Part 90, 95, 80, etc. "Certificate of conformity" I think is/was the term that was used. Part 15 also had two types, unintentional radiators, and intentional radiators. The low power (100mw or less) CB radios didn't need it, just like the 49MHz walkie talkies.

And as R-E-G said above, amateur radio equipment does not require type acceptance on the transmitters (one of the several reasons they can be used on other radio services). He correctly pointed out that the FCC tag on the back refers to the "scanning receiver" functionality.

Also, things change. Those are old walkie talkies you are looking at. A lot of FCC stuff has changed since then.

I thought ham radios at least were required to meet the requirements laid out in the portion of the FCC rules regarding ham radio, which is called Part 97. Every ham radio design that is to manufactured must be type accepted for ham radio use which means conducting sophisticated RF measurements to be sure that it operates correctly according to Part 97 rules, and then submitting the results from those measurements to the FCC. Only once a specific ham radio equipment design (circuit design, RF shielding, etc) has been type accepted by the FCC based on Part 97 rules can it be legally sold in the US as a ham radio. If any of the design is to be changed (like if the manufacture decides to make a new circuit design that's more efficient), it must undergo the whole type acceptance process all over again (RF testing and submitting the test results to the FCC, and then receiving a letter of type acceptance from the FCC), before devices built with the new design can be legally sold in the US as ham radios.

Part 15 on the other hand, is for either unintentional radiators, or for low power intentional radiators that operate in bands that don't require a license for low power use, and that aren't already covered by other FCC rules (such as the CB radios that are covered by Part 95).

 

[kf8yk]

The first date FCC type acceptance ID's were mandatory for manufacture or import was October 27, 1980.

The FCC began issuing type acceptance ID's in April '79, between this and the Oct requirement display of the FCC ID was voluntary.

 

[mmckenna]

I thought ham radios at least were required to meet the requirements laid out in the portion of the FCC rules regarding ham radio, which is called Part 97.

That's Part 97, subpart D. It has some requirements, but it doesn't require type certification on the transmitters. The only certifications you'll find are for amplifiers, and most of that is centered around making sure they can't be easily used on CB

The receiver portion of mass produced ham gear will often have Part 15 'certificate of conformity' for the scanning receiver portion. But that's not Part 97...

 

[prcguy]

Ham radios only have to comply with Part 15. Low power 100 mw walkie talkies are categorically part 15.

The 1964 advertising for these specifically mentions license free and that falls under part 15 even today.

 

[KE7IZL]

So do ANY companies still make walkie talkies (or any kind or radio for that matter) that use the 49MHz band? Or is that just a completely dead band now?

 

[10-43]

I thought ham radios at least were required to meet the requirements laid out in the portion of the FCC rules regarding ham radio, which is called Part 97. Every ham radio design that is to manufactured must be type accepted for ham radio use which means conducting sophisticated RF measurements to be sure that it operates correctly according to Part 97 rules, and then submitting the results from those measurements to the FCC. Only once a specific ham radio equipment design (circuit design, RF shielding, etc) has been type accepted by the FCC based on Part 97 rules can it be legally sold in the US as a ham radio. If any of the design is to be changed (like if the manufacture decides to make a new circuit design that's more efficient), it must undergo the whole type acceptance process all over again (RF testing and submitting the test results to the FCC, and then receiving a letter of type acceptance from the FCC), before devices built with the new design can be legally sold in the US as ham radios.

Part 15 on the other hand, is for either unintentional radiators, or for low power intentional radiators that operate in bands that don't require a license for low power use, and that aren't already covered by other FCC rules (such as the CB radios that are covered by Part 95).

If HAM radio transmitters required type acceptance, HAM radio operators could not build and then use their own transmitters and amplifiers. It is the HAM radio operators responsibility to operate within the technical specifications and operational rules in Part 97.

As I recall, Part 97.315 was added to address the problem of HF amplifiers and especially 10 meter amplifiers sold and used on 11 meters. It does no prevent a HAM radio operator from building or modifying an amplifier for use on 10 meters or other HAM frequencies below 144 MHz.

§97.315 Certification of external RF power amplifiers.

(a) Any external RF power amplifier (see §2.815 of the FCC Rules) manufactured or imported for use at an amateur radio station must be certificated for use in the amateur service in accordance with subpart J of part 2 of the FCC Rules. No amplifier capable of operation below 144 MHz may be constructed or modified by a non‐amateur service licensee without a grant of certification from the FCC.

(b) The requirement of paragraph (a) does not apply if one or more of the following conditions are met:

(1) The amplifier is constructed or modified by an amateur radio operator for use at an amateur station.

(2) The amplifier was manufactured before April 28, 1978, and has been issued a marketing waiver by the FCC, or the amplifier was purchased before April 28, 1978, by an amateur radio operator for use at that operator's station.

(3) The amplifier is sold to an amateur radio operator or to a dealer, the amplifier is purchased in used condition by a dealer, or the amplifier is sold to an amateur radio operator for use at that operator's station. (c) Any external RF power amplifier appearing in the Commission's database as certificated for use in the amateur service may be marketed for use in the amateur service.

47 CFR subpart J part 2 is quite lengthy, but 47 CFR Part 97.315 is rather short.

The link below takes you to subpart J part 2 as referenced above in 47 CFR Part 97.315

Federal Register :: Request Access

www.ecfr.gov

subpart I part 2.815 referenced above.

§ 2.815 External radio frequency power amplifiers.

(a) As used in this part, an external radio frequency power amplifier is any device which,
(1) when used in conjunction with a radio transmitter as a signal source is capable of amplification of that signal, and
(2) is not an integral part of a radio transmitter as manufactured.
(b) No person shall manufacture, sell or lease, offer for sale or lease (including advertising for sale or lease) or import, ship or distribute for the purpose of selling or leasing or offering for sale or lease, any external radio frequency power amplifier capable of operation on any frequency or frequencies below 144 MHz unless the amplifier has received a grant of certification in accordance with subpart J of this part and other relevant parts of this chapter. These amplifiers shall comply with the following:
(1) The external radio frequency power amplifier shall not be capable of amplification in the frequency band 26-28 MHz.
(2) The amplifier shall not be capable of easy modification to permit its use as an amplifier in the frequency band 26-28 MHz.
(3) No more than 10 external radio frequency power amplifiers may be constructed for evaluation purposes in preparation for the submission of an application for a grant of certification.
(4) If the external radio frequency power amplifier is intended for operation in the Amateur Radio Service under part 97 of this chapter, the requirements of §§ 97.315 and 97.317 of this chapter shall be met.

 

[mmckenna]

So do ANY companies still make walkie talkies (or any kind or radio for that matter) that use the 49MHz band? Or is that just a completely dead band now?

Baby monitors:

Amazon.com

Walkie Talkies, not that I've found.

When my son was little, a lot of the remote controlled toys used 49MHz.

I think FRS has replaced most of the 49MHz gear.

 

[10-43]

Baby monitors:

Amazon.com

Walkie Talkies, not that I've found.

When my son was little, a lot of the remote controlled toys used 49MHz.

I think FRS has replaced most of the 49MHz gear.

I got a chuckle out of the package of that baby monitor on Amazon. "Energy saving AC adapter" As if any of them draw much current anyway. And those appear to be old school transformer types less efficient than solid state voltage regulators that just drop anything around 90 to 240 volts down to low voltage.

Although rare, there could be military on 49 Mhz. Somewhere, sometime.

I think I am going to do a persistent search in the 49 Mhz range just to see what pops up as I move around.

 

[buddrousa]

When I was young I had a set like those and mine were in the CB Band. I used to get on the roof of our 2 storey house so I could talk to a man on the other side of our small town.

 

[nd5y]

So do ANY companies still make walkie talkies (or any kind or radio for that matter) that use the 49MHz band? Or is that just a completely dead band now?

I've seen some new FCC IDs for 49 MHz stuff in the past few years so somebody is still making them. There was even one that had a single channel above 50 MHz (6 m amateur band).

 

[mmckenna]

I think I am going to do a persistent search in the 49 Mhz range just to see what pops up as I move around.

There are some LMR license inside the 49.000 - 49.999 frequency range. Can't remember the name of the company, but they were a electric utility customer. Running 100 watt mobiles, if i recall correctly.

 

[KE7IZL]

I've seen some new FCC IDs for 49 MHz stuff in the past few years so somebody is still making them. There was even one that had a single channel above 50 MHz (6 m amateur band).

If it's in the ham band then it's illegal for general (non-amateur) use, unless the 50MHz band is a dual-use band allowing both general and amateur communications. Just out of curiosity, what kind of devices did you find in the 49MHz and 50MHz bands? Any links to those devices?

 

[KE7IZL]

If HAM radio transmitters required type acceptance, HAM radio operators could not build and then use their own transmitters and amplifiers. It is the HAM radio operators responsibility to operate within the technical specifications and operational rules in Part 97.

As I recall, Part 97.315 was added to address the problem of HF amplifiers and especially 10 meter amplifiers sold and used on 11 meters. It does no prevent a HAM radio operator from building or modifying an amplifier for use on 10 meters or other HAM frequencies below 144 MHz.

§97.315 Certification of external RF power amplifiers.

(a) Any external RF power amplifier (see §2.815 of the FCC Rules) manufactured or imported for use at an amateur radio station must be certificated for use in the amateur service in accordance with subpart J of part 2 of the FCC Rules. No amplifier capable of operation below 144 MHz may be constructed or modified by a non‐amateur service licensee without a grant of certification from the FCC.

(b) The requirement of paragraph (a) does not apply if one or more of the following conditions are met:

(1) The amplifier is constructed or modified by an amateur radio operator for use at an amateur station.

(2) The amplifier was manufactured before April 28, 1978, and has been issued a marketing waiver by the FCC, or the amplifier was purchased before April 28, 1978, by an amateur radio operator for use at that operator's station.

(3) The amplifier is sold to an amateur radio operator or to a dealer, the amplifier is purchased in used condition by a dealer, or the amplifier is sold to an amateur radio operator for use at that operator's station. (c) Any external RF power amplifier appearing in the Commission's database as certificated for use in the amateur service may be marketed for use in the amateur service.

47 CFR subpart J part 2 is quite lengthy, but 47 CFR Part 97.315 is rather short.

The link below takes you to subpart J part 2 as referenced above in 47 CFR Part 97.315

Federal Register :: Request Access

www.ecfr.gov

subpart I part 2.815 referenced above.

§ 2.815 External radio frequency power amplifiers.

(a) As used in this part, an external radio frequency power amplifier is any device which,
(1) when used in conjunction with a radio transmitter as a signal source is capable of amplification of that signal, and
(2) is not an integral part of a radio transmitter as manufactured.
(b) No person shall manufacture, sell or lease, offer for sale or lease (including advertising for sale or lease) or import, ship or distribute for the purpose of selling or leasing or offering for sale or lease, any external radio frequency power amplifier capable of operation on any frequency or frequencies below 144 MHz unless the amplifier has received a grant of certification in accordance with subpart J of this part and other relevant parts of this chapter. These amplifiers shall comply with the following:
(1) The external radio frequency power amplifier shall not be capable of amplification in the frequency band 26-28 MHz.
(2) The amplifier shall not be capable of easy modification to permit its use as an amplifier in the frequency band 26-28 MHz.
(3) No more than 10 external radio frequency power amplifiers may be constructed for evaluation purposes in preparation for the submission of an application for a grant of certification.
(4) If the external radio frequency power amplifier is intended for operation in the Amateur Radio Service under part 97 of this chapter, the requirements of §§ 97.315 and 97.317 of this chapter shall be met.

I meant type acceptance for commercially manufactured ham radio equipment. Of course home-built units don't require type acceptance, but I thought mass produced commercially sold (such as from companies like ICom or Yaesu) amateur radio transceivers required type acceptance.

 

[mmckenna]

I meant type acceptance for commercially manufactured ham radio equipment. Of course home-built units don't require type acceptance, but I thought mass produced commercially sold (such as from companies like ICom or Yaesu) amateur radio transceivers required type acceptance.

They only require Part 15 approval for the "Scanning Receiver" portion. That's all you'll see on mass produced radios. The transmitters do not have type acceptance as it's not require on the amateur bands. Also, why it's not permissible to use them outside the amateur bands, even with 'diode snips' or key press sequences.

The only other place this comes into play is with HF amplifiers, and it was supposed to require them to NOT work on 11 meters.

 

[nd5y]

If it's in the ham band then it's illegal for general (non-amateur) use, unless the 50MHz band is a dual-use band allowing both general and amateur communications. Just out of curiosity, what kind of devices did you find in the 49MHz and 50MHz bands? Any links to those devices?

Low power Part 15 devices are legal on a lot of frequencies.
This one says it operates on 50.3282 MHz. https://fccid.io/2AE6BBT-5552

You can search these to find devices by frequency.

FCC OET Authorization Search

https://fccid.io/search.php