Hudson County Fire Interop

[thinktactics]

Anyone know of general information regarding how Hudson County fire departments operate during mutual aid situations? Just off the top of my head, Jersey City and Hoboken both have an "Engine 3", so how do they differentiate between them when operating together?

Searches on forum and Google for a fire mutual aid plan have come up empty, and the Hudson County DB shows nothing for county fire channels. Would appreciate anything y'all could help out with.

 

[CqDx]

In recent years and from my memory, they operate on NJUTAC44 - 48 frequencies.

NJ Interoperability (New Jersey) Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference

Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference for NJ Interoperability (New Jersey)

www.radioreference.com

For occasional interop with NYC, they communicate on UTAC40 - 43 frequencies

 

[RadioChief55]

Being a retired JCFD officer I can help you here. So, JCFD doesn't have an E3, but they do have a Ladder 3. When JC has a fire, mutual aid relocating into JC firehouses to cover the city will have a tool box with things they will need in JC and there is dedicated radios for relocating companies. Companies going to a fire, ( it would be a forth alarm, unless there is other fires then MA will go to a fire sooner) so companies going to work at a fire may have the ability to go to the JCFD analog FG channels, if they don't have a radio that will work on JC FG, they will be paired with a JCC company or they will work on their own channel and have a chief at the command post to relay messages. JCFD dispatch and other TRS TG's are all P25 phase 1 ADP encryption. (Don't ask) JC also had cross band repeaters the BC would bring to an out of town fire to patch JC to the VHF of the other town. Now all JCFD members have Motorola APX 8000tri band radios so they can just switch to that towns channel. Most of the time with fires in other towns/City's, everyone will work on their own channel with a chief at the command post. We almost never switched to a UTAC channel, a few fireboat drills we used a UTAC channel. Northern NJ is terrible with radio interrogability still, even with all the new options. If two E3's were at a fire, they would say North Hudson E3 to to command or Hoboken E3 to Jersey City Fire Dispatch. I hope this helps.

 

[richee2000]

Being a retired JCFD officer I can help you here. So, JCFD doesn't have an E3, but they do have a Ladder 3. When JC has a fire, mutual aid relocating into JC firehouses to cover the city will have a tool box with things they will need in JC and there is dedicated radios for relocating companies. Companies going to a fire, ( it would be a forth alarm, unless there is other fires then MA will go to a fire sooner) so companies going to work at a fire may have the ability to go to the JCFD analog FG channels, if they don't have a radio that will work on JC FG, they will be paired with a JCC company or they will work on their own channel and have a chief at the command post to relay messages. JCFD dispatch and other TRS TG's are all P25 phase 1 ADP encryption. (Don't ask) JC also had cross band repeaters the BC would bring to an out of town fire to patch JC to the VHF of the other town. Now all JCFD members have Motorola APX 8000tri band radios so they can just switch to that towns channel. Most of the time with fires in other towns/City's, everyone will work on their own channel with a chief at the command post. We almost never switched to a UTAC channel, a few fireboat drills we used a UTAC channel. Northern NJ is terrible with radio interrogability still, even with all the new options. If two E3's were at a fire, they would say North Hudson E3 to to command or Hoboken E3 to Jersey City Fire Dispatch. I hope this helps.

I am just curious as to why The JCPD has all dispatch channels in the clear, while JCFD has all dispatch channels encrypted. If you don't want to answer, I will respect that.

 

[thinktactics]

Being a retired JCFD officer I can help you here. So, JCFD doesn't have an E3, but they do have a Ladder 3. When JC has a fire, mutual aid relocating into JC firehouses to cover the city will have a tool box with things they will need in JC and there is dedicated radios for relocating companies. Companies going to a fire, ( it would be a forth alarm, unless there is other fires then MA will go to a fire sooner) so companies going to work at a fire may have the ability to go to the JCFD analog FG channels, if they don't have a radio that will work on JC FG, they will be paired with a JCC company or they will work on their own channel and have a chief at the command post to relay messages. JCFD dispatch and other TRS TG's are all P25 phase 1 ADP encryption. (Don't ask) JC also had cross band repeaters the BC would bring to an out of town fire to patch JC to the VHF of the other town. Now all JCFD members have Motorola APX 8000tri band radios so they can just switch to that towns channel. Most of the time with fires in other towns/City's, everyone will work on their own channel with a chief at the command post. We almost never switched to a UTAC channel, a few fireboat drills we used a UTAC channel. Northern NJ is terrible with radio interrogability still, even with all the new options. If two E3's were at a fire, they would say North Hudson E3 to to command or Hoboken E3 to Jersey City Fire Dispatch. I hope this helps.

This is extremely in-depth, which is exactly what I was looking for - so thank you for that. My recollection was a bit off - I was thinking of Weehawken's Engine 3, not Jersey City.

This particular flavor of interoperability is interesting, haha. So with all of this info in mind, if I were monitoring a Hoboken fire where multiple mutual aid companies were on scene, I'd want to go for the Hoboken fireground channels, wherever those might be?

 

[RadioChief55]

I am just curious as to why The JCPD has all dispatch channels in the clear, while JCFD has all dispatch channels encrypted. If you don't want to answer, I will respect that.

It all goes back to the fire chief, a fire that they were sued over dispatching to the wrong address and the fact that news media have the audio from broadcastify for the morning news. That is one reason.

 

[RadioChief55]

This is extremely in-depth, which is exactly what I was looking for - so thank you for that. My recollection was a bit off - I was thinking of Weehawken's Engine 3, not Jersey City.

This particular flavor of interoperability is interesting, haha. So with all of this info in mind, if I were monitoring a Hoboken fire where multiple mutual aid companies were on scene, I'd want to go for the Hoboken fireground channels, wherever those might be?

Listen to HFD channel and I'd listen to JCFD FG 2 or 3.

 

[thinktactics]

Listen to HFD channel and I'd listen to JCFD FG 2 or 3.

Great, thank you.

Most of the time with fires in other towns/City's, everyone will work on their own channel with a chief at the command post. We almost never switched to a UTAC channel, a few fireboat drills we used a UTAC channel.

Doesn't that introduce a lag time of sorts for members to hear comms from other departments' members?

 

[RadioChief55]

Great, thank you.


Doesn't that introduce a lag time of sorts for members to hear comms from other departments' members?

Its not good because your depending one one person to relay a message, if they aren't paying attention to the radio, comms will be missed.

 

[thinktactics]

Its not good because your depending one one person to relay a message, if they aren't paying attention to the radio, comms will be missed.

Sounds like a concern. This hasn't resulted in safety issues before?

 

[Tac-1]

It all goes back to the fire chief, a fire that they were sued over dispatching to the wrong address and the fact that news media have the audio from broadcastify for the morning news. That is one reason.

N.J. city sued after inferno kills 4 when firefighters go to wrong address

Firefighters were delayed in responding to the March 2014 fire after they went to the wrong address.

www.nj.com

Wilson v. City of Jersey City

At the time of the attack, Anthony Andrews, who was temporarily living with his sister in an apartment across the hall, called 9-1-1. The call was routed to a State Police Public Safety Answering Point (PSAP). When the operator answered, Andrews reported that he "heard somebody screaming next...

law.justia.com

 

[ten13]

It all goes back to the fire chief, a fire that they were sued over dispatching to the wrong address and the fact that news media have the audio from broadcastify for the morning news. That is one reason.

The city was "sued," but the plaintiffs lost the case.

The fact is, no one has a constitutional right to fire...or police...protection. It is what it is when the first call is made. If the FD is tied up, someone will get there, but not right away. And one of the more popular computer entries in places like the NYPD...and, recently, the JCPD...is "NCA" - "No Cars Available." You can't dispatch what you ain't got.

The fire on Grant Ave, which was initially dispatched to Grand Ave, was a mistake, and a very reasonable mistake, and nothing more, and the court agreed with that, and dismissed the lawsuit vs. Jersey City....

$40M fire lawsuit tossed by judge

A Hudson County judge last month dismissed a $40 million lawsuit brought by the surviving members of the Pickett family, who lost their parents and two brothers in a fire that destroyed their Grant Avenue home four years ago.

www.nj.com

And the idea that the JCFD encrypted one channel had nothing to do with that fire in particular.