Idaho Power's massive DMR trunking system on 217 MHz

[thewenk]

There isn't much traffic on this system and it is usually very brief. Having no traffic for multiple hours is not unusual. I don't have any real suggestions on using DSP+.

Although this morning I have heard traffic on site 5.4 (Pocatello) on TG 169870 which is Southern Dispatch from Twin Falls area.

Are you receiving Site 6.1 with an outside or an inside antenna? I am trying to figure out where site 6.1 is actually located.

 

[thewenk]

My ability to actually hear voice traffic using DSD+ has not been very good. My settings for DSD+ may not be quite correct for audio. That's why I use my scanners for voice traffic.

Your DSD+ voice channel data indicates to me that voice traffic was occurring when that data was recorded.
Grabbing voice channels
2023/02/14 21:37:31 Freq=217.356250 DCC=0 Group call; TG=171830 RID=169790 Slot=1 14s
2023/02/14 21:39:45 Freq=217.356250 DCC=0 Group call; TG=171830 RID=169790 Slot=2 24s
2023/02/14 21:49:44 Freq=217.225000 DCC=0 Group call; TG=171830 RID=169790 Slot=1 15s
2023/02/14 21:51:59 Freq=217.225000 DCC=0 Group call; TG=171830 RID=169790 Slot=2 24s
2023/02/14 21:54:32 Freq=217.356250 DCC=0 Group call; TG=171830 RID=169790 Slot=1 16s
2023/02/14 21:56:48 Freq=217.356250 DCC=0 Group call; TG=171830 RID=169790 Slot=2 24s
2023/02/14 22:01:52 Freq=217.481250 DCC=0 Group call; TG=171830 RID=169790 Slot=2 10s

 

[thewenk]

Voice traffic this morning on both TG169870 & 169880 on site 5.4. More than I usually hear.

 

[merlin]

Lets see if we can figure this out.
I do know the site on 217.04375 is Chinese peak 9-5.4 I can get that with no antenna being 4.5 miles.
site 9-6.1 is next weakest. Might be Sedgwick peak.
site 9-5.6 is quite weak but useable. I suspect that on East Bute Idaho Falls.
These 3 are CC sites and no voice, just data. Voice channels I logged below.
217.35625 voice channel
217.22500 voice channel
217.48125 voice channel
217.16875 voice channel
217.45625 voice channel
These randomly pop up and get voice. volume is very low. often get two up at a time.

My antenna is a discone atop 2 story building. 60' LMR 600 to a preamp then splitter
one of four port to the RTL-SDR
Major issue is interferance from a major repeater/cellular site 200 yards away.
Problem: sitting on any of these control channels, none of them follow the voice channels.
Just grabbed voice on 217.16875 TG 169880 screenshot

 

[cg]

You have one odd channel in your setup. 217.2250 is not in the database for that site. DB has 217.23125. Could make a bit of difference with a weaker site.

 

[thewenk]

You have one odd channel in your setup. 217.2250 is not in the database for that site. DB has 217.23125. Could make a bit of difference with a weaker site.

217.225 does not fit the frequency plan for this system. I don't think it is correct. The system has a base frequency of 216.99375 with steps of 12.5 KHz as explained in the first post in this thread. 217.23125 is correct for this site when calculated.

 

[thewenk]

According g to the FCC License for this system (which might not be correct) there are three sites in the Pocatello area (Region 5). They are Chinese peak, Howard Mtn. and Paps Mtn near American Falls. There are three more sites in Region 5 -One near Rockland in Oneida Cnty. and one near Robin in southern Bannock County, and the East Butte site.

From Idaho Falls with a 20 ft outside all band DPD antenna and preamp, I can receive.
Site 5.6 strong
Site 5.4 weaker, but consistent
Site 5.1 weak not consistent
Site 6.1 weaker, not consistent, but better than site 5.1

I usually get a stronger signal on other frequencies from Howard Mtn than I do from Chinese Pk . Could Site 5.4 be on Howard Mtn? Maybe there is only one site near Pocatello (Chinese Pk or Howard Mtn?)

Your screenshot lists site 6.1 as a neighbor to site 5.1, 5.4, 5.6 and 5.7.
Site 6.1 should be in a different geographical region than the Region 5 sites (in theory). Since it can be received both in Idaho Falls and Pocatello, where is it? I had assumed it was in Lemhi County where Idaho Power also operates. But receiving Lemhi County in Pocatello, is not likely and your screenshot confirms it is not in Lemhi County.

Site 6.1 must be in the Pocatello area. I doubt that it is south of Pocatello since I can't usually receive anything south of Pocatello
Maybe it is the site on Paps mountain near American Falls.

Also just heard TG 169860, Capital Dispatch in Boise, received on site 6.1.

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

 

[merlin]

Mine is not to reason why, all I have to work with is what I can glean from DSD+
217.225 pops up as a voice channel and shows talk groups consistent with idaho power.
Maybe it is not supposed to fit, but there it is.
My ISP is on Kinport, just north of that is Howard pk. all eyeshots from my location.
Chinese peak is just east and eyeshot.
Paps mountain is well the other side of Howard (Power county)
East Butte is some 50 miles north, that is like DX but had usable signals from there.
What sites these voice channels originate from is guesswork by signal strength.
TGs are different between sites but which is which
I could narrow those if I could sit on a CC and have it hand off to respective VC.
Do you suppose site 6.1 is simulcast, like the big cheese of the system ?

 

[Priority-One]

Random Question.

But why is it that most utility companies use 200mhz?
I have seen this is various systems across the usa.

 

[thewenk]

I think the FCC has allocated this frequency spectrum for use by electric service providers.

 

[thewenk]

Merlin - Can you receive Site 5.1 at all? I thought it was in the Pocatello area. It's weak in I F.

 

[merlin]

Merlin - Can you receive Site 5.1 at all? I thought it was in the Pocatello area. It's weak in I F.

5.1 is the strongest site I get, quite sure it is Chinese peak.

Random Question.

But why is it that most utility companies use 200mhz?
I have seen this is various systems across the usa.

This chunk of spectrum is an auction scenario, sold to highest bidder. Surely power companies can get their piece.

 

[merlin]

OK, my strong site is 5.4, next up in frequency is 5.6 the weak signal. Next up in frequency is 6.1 medium signal.
While on 6.1, I got what sounds like dispatch voice.
After muting, I get lost CC and looking for 217.01625 That I don't get and think site 5.1
A bit of the log:
2023/02/16 21:40:02 FMPx link established
2023/02/16 21:40:02 Freq=217.043750 Current network: L9 Idaho Power
2023/02/16 21:40:02 Freq=217.043750 Current site: L9-5.4
2023/02/16 21:40:03 Freq=217.043750 DCC=0 You are running the most recent copy of DSD+
2023/02/16 21:40:03 Freq=217.043750 DCC=0 No data for current site found in DSDPlus.frequencies file
2023/02/16 21:40:21 Freq=217.043750 DCC=0 L9-5.4 neighbor: Site L9-9.2
2023/02/16 21:40:31 Freq=217.043750 DCC=0 L9-5.4 neighbor: Site L9-5.6
2023/02/16 21:40:41 Freq=217.043750 DCC=0 L9-5.4 neighbor: Site L9-5.7
2023/02/16 21:40:48 Freq=217.106250 Current network: L9 Idaho Power
2023/02/16 21:40:48 Freq=217.106250 Current site: L9-6.1
2023/02/16 21:41:05 Freq=217.106250 DCC=0 Group call; TG=171830 RID=169790 Ch=20
2023/02/16 21:41:07 Freq=217.106250 DCC=0 L9-6.1 neighbor: Site L9-9.2
2023/02/16 21:41:11 Freq=217.106250 DCC=0 Group call; TG=171830 RID=169790 Slot=2 19s
2023/02/16 21:41:15 Freq=217.106250 DCC=0 OVCM Group call; TG=171830 RID=169790 Ch=20
2023/02/16 21:41:17 Freq=217.106250 DCC=0 L9-6.1 neighbor: Site L9-5.6
2023/02/16 21:41:25 Freq=217.106250 DCC=0 OVCM Group call; TG=171830 RID=169790 Ch=20
2023/02/16 21:41:27 Freq=217.106250 DCC=0 L9-6.1 neighbor: Site L9-5.7
2023/02/16 21:41:35 Freq=217.106250 DCC=0 OVCM Group call; TG=171830 RID=169790 Ch=20
2023/02/16 21:41:37 Freq=217.106250 DCC=0 L9-6.1 neighbor: Site L9-5.1
2023/02/16 21:41:45 Freq=217.106250 DCC=0 OVCM Group call; TG=171830 RID=169790 Ch=20
2023/02/16 21:41:47 Freq=217.106250 DCC=0 L9-6.1 neighbor: Site L9-5.4
2023/02/16 21:42:33 Freq=217.106250 DCC=0 Loading all known site channels
2023/02/16 21:42:33 Freq=217.106250 DCC=0 Lost control channel; tuning to 217.016250; dwell time = 0.75 sec
2023/02/16 21:43:48 Freq=217.106250 Current network: L9 Idaho Power
2023/02/16 21:43:48 Freq=217.106250 Current site: L9-6.1
2023/02/16 21:43:49 Freq=217.106250 DCC=0 OVCM Group call; TG=171830 RID=169790 Ch=39
2023/02/16 21:43:59 Freq=217.106250 DCC=0 OVCM Group call; TG=171830 RID=169790 Ch=39
2023/02/16 21:44:07 Freq=217.106250 DCC=0 L9-6.1 neighbor: Site L9-5.1
2023/02/16 21:44:09 Freq=217.106250 DCC=0 OVCM Group call; TG=171830 RID=169790 Ch=39
2023/02/16 21:44:17 Freq=217.106250 DCC=0 L9-6.1 neighbor: Site L9-5.4
2023/02/16 21:44:27 Freq=217.106250 DCC=0 L9-6.1 neighbor: Site L9-9.2
2023/02/16 21:44:48 Freq=217.106250 DCC=0 Loading all known site channels
2023/02/16 21:44:48 Freq=217.106250 DCC=0 Lost control channel; tuning to 217.016250; dwell time = 0.75 sec
2023/02/16 21:46:14 Freq=217.081250 Current network: L9 Idaho Power
2023/02/16 21:46:14 Freq=217.081250 Current site: L9-5.6
2023/02/16 21:46:15 Freq=217.081250 DCC=0 No data for current site found in DSDPlus.frequencies file
2023/02/16 21:46:29 Freq=217.081250 DCC=0 L9-5.6 neighbor: Site L9-5.1
2023/02/16 21:46:39 Freq=217.081250 DCC=0 L9-5.6 neighbor: Site L9-5.4
2023/02/16 21:46:49 Freq=217.081250 DCC=0 L9-5.6 neighbor: Site L9-5.7
2023/02/16 21:46:59 Freq=217.081250 DCC=0 L9-5.6 neighbor: Site L9-6.1
2023/02/16 21:49:12 Freq=217.081250 DCC=0 Found control channel
2023/02/16 21:49:58 Freq=217.106250 Current network: L9 Idaho Power
2023/02/16 21:49:58 Freq=217.106250 Current site: L9-6.1
2023/02/16 21:50:33 Freq=217.106250 DCC=0 Loading all known site channels
2023/02/16 21:50:33 Freq=217.106250 DCC=0 Lost control channel; tuning to 217.016250; dwell time = 0.75 sec
2023/02/16 21:51:18 Freq=217.106250 Current network: L9 Idaho Power
2023/02/16 21:51:18 Freq=217.106250 Current site: L9-6.1
2023/02/16 21:51:22 Freq=217.106250 DCC=0 OVCM Group call; TG=171830 RID=169790 Ch=60
2023/02/16 21:51:37 Freq=217.106250 DCC=0 L9-6.1 neighbor: Site L9-5.1
2023/02/16 21:51:47 Freq=217.106250 DCC=0 Target requesting to send message; Tgt=166760
2023/02/16 21:51:47 Freq=217.106250 DCC=0 L9-6.1 neighbor: Site L9-5.4
2023/02/16 21:51:57 Freq=217.106250 DCC=0 L9-6.1 neighbor: Site L9-9.2
2023/02/16 21:52:07 Freq=217.106250 DCC=0 L9-6.1 neighbor: Site L9-5.6
2023/02/16 21:52:17 Freq=217.106250 DCC=0 L9-6.1 neighbor: Site L9-5.7
2023/02/16 21:52:55 Freq=217.106250 DCC=0 Loading all known site channels
2023/02/16 21:52:55 Freq=217.106250 DCC=0 Lost control channel; tuning to 217.016250; dwell time = 0.75 sec

 

[thewenk]

Thanks for the data dump. I'm looking at it now.
I have the following sites and CCs
site 5.1 - 217.01875 weak to medium
site 5.4 - 217.04375 medium
site 5.6 - 217.08125 stromg
site 6.1 - 217.10625 medium
site 5.7 - ??? can't receive

There is another site at 217.08675 that isn't strong enough for DSD+ to identify other than as a DMR site (maybe site 5.7).

If you can't receive site 5.1 very well, it must not be in the Pocatello immediate area.

 

[merlin]

OK, Here is something I grabbed from FCC dot GOV
The list of IPC transmitter locations by number
Also a link to the map you can play with.
(Now if only DSD could show transmitters by number)

 

[thewenk]

Thanks for the reference list and map reference. I was aware of the map and listing previously and had been using it as a basis for locating sites for a while. But I think the information is not up to date and may not be correct in some areas. But it is better than nothing. For instance the list/map shows two sites in Pocatello (Chinese Pk & Howard Mtn) which I can't confirm from what you have reported so far. Thats why I keep asking questions. But any of your inputs/comments are appreciated and don't hesitate to report anything that you find.

 

[merlin]

I am working on the frequencies list which is ""HUGE"".No information, but freq/locations are listed.
Consider, this is from FCC GOV and being current or accurate is not their forte.
I have another TIII site trying to monitor, but don't know what I am doing wrong with my lists.
Neither site will follow voice channels and the only voice is rare dispatch on CCs.

 

[thewenk]

If you find a new site and get a verified CC for that site, I can calculate the voice channels for that site. The system uses calculated voice channels based on the CC frequency (LCN).

This is a possible new site (unknown site #)
217.06875 CC LCN 6, Ch ID 13 & 14 (Each Freq. has two Ch IDs which DSD+ reports)
217.19375 LCN 16, Ch ID 33 & 34
217.31875 LCN 26, Ch ID 53 & 54

 

[merlin]

Well, I cut back the frequency list to Bannock county Digital trunked systems.
98% of those frequencies are invalid, like nothing there.
Ferreting with SDR #R, I logged 3, TIII sites (CCs) 5, Nexedge48 CCs and 1, P25 p1 CC.
Not a one is in the FCC frequency ULS list.
No new sites for IPC. I logged the full complement of channel numbers.
Your new site looks a lot like Nexedge48 for a single site. Any neighbors show up ?
The LCN is also the site number.
Find the CC , should be network #6 or maybe 9. Bottom of FMPxx panel.
I need to read up about TIII systems so I know what I am talking about.
Looks like your frequencies are voice channels that I don't get.

 

[dmchalmers]

Lucky you guys got a DMR system... our state uses MPT1327.

So does my area of northern Mi thinking of using Airspy2 with Unitrunker it supports mtp 1327 it claims.