I'm new to the site and to the scanner world. Need suggestions/help. I live in ak

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ride907

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Ok so I'm new to this. I'd like to start listening to alaska state troopers, I'm not sure what scanner I need to get. Ast uses the almr so idk what scanner/radio I need. Any suggestions?? I'm not a real smart guy with electronics either so the more simple the better
 

frazpo

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By reading the database page for your area the notes indicate that most of the Alaska state police has gone encrypted on the digital system. You would want a digital scanner for your area but it sounds like you will be out of luck for state police. Maybe someone from your area will hop in here soon and have some comments
 

aps_ak

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Welcome aboard. In general, to receive the ALMR system you will need a digital-capable scanner. For radio shack, that's model PRO-106/197, or GRE PSR-500/600/800. I'm not too familiar with uniden, but I think model 996XT is digital as well.

As far as AST- well, you're mostly out of luck. They are very encryption-heavy, if not 100% in some cases. In case you're new to the term, there is no legal way to monitor encrypted communications. Do a search of this forum, or pull up some past threads -there has been tons of discussion on AST's monitorability. You can message me if you have questions as well.

Good luck.
 

aps_ak

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I like my Pro-106 from radio shack. The learning curve for them all is steep, but it's rewarding. Again, don't plan on hearing a lot of clear AST traffic, especially on the Kenai and Fairbanks area.
 

tvdood

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Asurnin,
I'm new to digital scanning. I bought a PRO-106 in Anchorage, and can NOT figure out the TRUNKING portion. Is there anyone in town that can help me out with that?
THANKS!
 

rogerx

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Ditto.

Alaska Statutes completely forbid even listening to encrypted radio traffic. However, I would like to think the State wouldn't cite a law-abiding citizen from doing so, with the intent of protecting themselves or others. But second guess this from what I've seen. Criminals seem to walk easily too.

Good luck if somebody is loose running around in your neighborhood with a gun. But, I'm sure AST will always be guarenteed to be there to protect you from the crook.

I've written a lengthy reply here:

http://forums.radioreference.com/al...trooper-frequencies-please-2.html#post1867838

Seems the only next measure is just to move or relocate into a State where you're somewhat guarenteed some measure of security or information. Could always move to a remote village, where locals don't have money to waste or are controlled from spending on military grade encryption.

Good things don't come from excessive force -- for some odd reason. :-/

Now, don't get me wrong, there are some really good uses for encryption, just shouldn't be used for cat & mouse games, as it only deterrs law-abiding people from being informed. Makes me sincerely wonder of the peoples's intention of those supporting this move to 110% encryption. State seems to be more interested in cheap, easy methods (ie. baton for every crime) rather then using an appropriate solution, hence, causing further problems.

Geesh, I hate ranting -- Why bother preaching when the people don't listen and only want to smoke dope.
 

AKBMW

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Ditto.

Alaska Statutes completely forbid even listening to encrypted radio traffic. However, I would like to think the State wouldn't cite a law-abiding citizen from doing so, with the intent of protecting themselves or others. But second guess this from what I've seen. Criminals seem to walk easily too.QUOTE]

Even if you could, you'd still need to aquire the encryption key to decrypt the audio.
 

rogerx

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AKBMW: If I'm not mistaken, the Alaska Statutes are worded as such; you are committing a crime if you merrily tune-in and are listening to encrypted indistinguishable garbage. The statutes carefully word around unencrypted traffic.

It would appear, the politicians or committee whom initially worded the statute appear to be have been quite careful to omit calling legally abiding citizens criminals. I noticed one politician, State Senator Gattos, seems to have had the qualities for carefully examining both sides of an issue -- as with any experienced peace officer, but I'm unsure who actually wrote the Statute. I'm sure if Senator Gattos saw this occurring, he would be one of those that would put things proper.
 

AKBMW

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AKBMW: If I'm not mistaken, the Alaska Statutes are worded as such; you are committing a crime if you merrily tune-in and are listening to encrypted indistinguishable garbage. The statutes carefully word around unencrypted traffic.

It would appear, the politicians or committee whom initially worded the statute appear to be have been quite careful to omit calling legally abiding citizens criminals. I noticed one politician, State Senator Gattos, seems to have had the qualities for carefully examining both sides of an issue -- as with any experienced peace officer, but I'm unsure who actually wrote the Statute. I'm sure if Senator Gattos saw this occurring, he would be one of those that would put things proper.


Seeing as how in P25 encrypted traffic is still sent over an unencrypted control channel I don't see how they could possibly enforce it if that was the case. Your scanner tells you the ID of the TG as it is disseminated from the CC but you don't know it's encrypted until your scanner opens squelch an then realizes it can't decode the audio. So you aren't technically trying to intercept the encrypted audio and your scanner quickly presses on with a system scan. Now, if you were tracking a particular channel waiting to intercept encrypted traffic for nefarious purposes that would be different. You also can't be using a scanner during a crime you are involved in.
 

AKBMW

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Even if one was intentionally tuned to encrypted traffic it wouldn't really serve any meaningful purpose since its trunked and virtually impossible to crack especially with rotating keys
 

aps_ak

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Rogerx, I'm not doubting you just yet, but can you find the statute or statute number that you are referencing? I can't find anything searching my AS database.
 

AKBMW

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I haven't found it either. I know you cannot use a scanner in the furtherance of illegal endeavors and there are some stipulations regarding sniffing out scrambled and/or encrypted RF
 

aps_ak

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You are correct. That is definitely covered. I don't think you will be busted to listening to "alien talk". And even if you were, that is EXTREMELY hard to enforce and prosecute.
 

AKBMW

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Especially because AES 256 over P25 sounds just like P25 data
 

rogerx

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Well, from what I've seen in Alaska government or people around it, there are some people that just don't think rationally for some reason. So, if something looks criminal, somebody might just try to push the law on you. I'd also further speculate they'd do so because it just makes them look good, and you bad. Other Lower 48 States have too many heavy weights running around down there for somebody to get away with pushing over people without getting away with it... but I might be wrong on this one. As they say, if you look hard enough for trouble, you'll eventually find it. ;-)

I don't recall the Alaska State Statute exactly. I'm sure I scanned over them during 2008-201 couple of times, and I think you can search for "encrypted" as it's a unique search term. Also "scanner" or "radio" might pull the statute, but you might get a few more statutes as they're more common words. Sounds like Asurnin either found the Statute, or knows exactly the one I'm talking about.

Asurnin: I see you're in Anchorage... the city is also encrypted according to my last visit. Yea, common sense dictates, if you're a good person, cops aren't going to waste their time with you. But I was always taught, always get a badge number and never had to worry until I got to AK. :-/ If I relocate again, I'm moving and taking my money to a city without encryption or where they use it wisely/rarely. It seems all this crap is revolving around and mimmicking old mistakes made by decades old monarchy's, and then forgotten and currently being relived again by politicians and people today, too lazy to learn mistakes of old. Eh, I see it within my current genealogy research and past political science.

Hopefully, the laws will be sensibly augmented and us good guys get the tools we need.

Hey, I'm all for officer safety, just don't put it above the good citizens and hide behind the badge in the wake of trouble, while letting the good citizens take the fall.
 

aps_ak

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Roger, I appreciate your passion. Believe me, it would be Christmas morning all over if some of these agencies dropped their encryption on the dispatch channels. I like this hobby as much as you do, but I am also very pro-law enforcement. Consider some of these points:

Well, from what I've seen in Alaska government or people around it, there are some people that just don't think rationally for some reason. So, if something looks criminal, somebody might just try to push the law on you. I'd also further speculate they'd do so because it just makes them look good, and you bad. Other Lower 48 States have too many heavy weights running around down there for somebody to get away with pushing over people without getting away with it... but I might be wrong on this one. As they say, if you look hard enough for trouble, you'll eventually find it. ;-)
I have faith in our LE, either state or local level. I don't know what you have seen around the state, or how much time you have spent up here, but I highly doubt charges get fabricated out of nowhere. Probable cause is required to prosecute cases - people don't get charged or convicted because it makes an arresting agency "look good". Are all arrests made "good" arrests? No, people make mistakes. The difference is maliciousness when making those arrests, and that's pretty rare. But that stems further away from the original topic at hand.

I don't recall the Alaska State Statute exactly. I'm sure I scanned over them during 2008-201 couple of times, and I think you can search for "encrypted" as it's a unique search term.

I could not find the statute, or anything pertaining to scanning encrypted comms in the Alaska Statutes list. I am 99% certain that listening to garbled audio will not get you in trouble with law enforcement - although you may get asked a few extra questions.

Asurnin: I see you're in Anchorage... the city is also encrypted according to my last visit.

Incorrect. Almost all public safety talkgroups/frequencies are in the clear. APD encrypts tactical and sensitive ops, a decision that Im 100% behind.

There is a school of thought floating around these forums that online feeds have led to more encryption. I can't help but agree. If troopers were to go in the clear, how soon do you think someone will have a feed up? Trooper dispatch centers differ from local dispatches in that they cover rather large service area- e.g. Soldotna covers ALL of the Kenai Peninsula plus Turnagain Arm south of anchorage. I don't know if large geographical coverage has anything to do with the decision to enc, but who knows.

We may be the "good guys", but none of these agencies like that fact that modern technology has made it easy for anyone with a smartphone to listen in on their conversations. Most Digital scanners are expensive and can be confusing to program. Scanner apps make radio traffic available with a push of a button.

That's my (shortened) take on it. Even though I may disagree with some things you said, I feel your frustration.
 

rogerx

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I agree too with the majority of your response.

"Almost all public safety talkgroups/frequencies are in the clear. APD encrypts tactical and sensitive ops, a decision that Im 100% behind."

I haven't been in Anchorage for more then a year, and things could have changed. I did notice a majority of encyprtion occuring at that time though at the city level. From memory, one-way dispatch unencrypted traffic? shrugs... still, as somebody else stated already, encryption anywhere should not be used or needed... tend to agree too as a description of suspect is usually broadcasted from the officer side. As such, deterrs any extra-eyes on the street level helping.

I ran into an agency sometime ago with unencrypted undercover ops. But then realized a possible reason, "Do you want to focus on crooks and avoid people without criminal intent", as a possible reason for being unencrypted. In other words, it's likely common to run into people without intent whom get mixed up in undercover ops. Or, you're focusing on a specific class of individuals for providing aide & assistance. Also, having the scanning crowd listen in gets an extra set of eyes and ears. Of coures, I'm talking about the low-risk scenarios such as prostitution and street vendor drug sales. Also, could have simply been because it's what they were using... again, shrugs. ... or maybe to show people they're actually working. ;-)

I agree on the online feeds and cell phone feeds (as it has been the primary excuse for going encrypted), but when you sincerely spend some time thinking as I do on bits & bytes, it starts to sincerely seem more of an excuse to use encryption. Do some further research, and the idealogy becomes well grounded. I've noticed over the decade, this is a politicized debate on whether civilians should be able to listen to police traffic. But after awhile, you realize safety & health are primary, privacy becomes a minimal concern during communication as safety & health take priority. And, most seasoned people in this career field will likely aggre. If you were drowning, would you be happy to take assistance from a civilian or wait for AST with it's encrypted bandwagon to arrive? Most rural areas depend on the unecrypted radio net for public safety/health, as response times are lengthy for State assistance.

Of course, this is hypothetical and statistics might dictate unencrypted traffic helps little. It really gets down to, which is the righteous path. In other words, there was a time when the Bible wasn't allowed to be read by civilians or was always written in Latin. Since King James, it's been easily read. My accuracy might be a little lazy with Bible history, but I'm sure most will understand the point made.

Wonders can be performed with bits & bytes. As I've concluded, encryption seems to be more pushed or lazy method versus a well thought-out plan. I have Assembly & C experience, and computer programming knowledge since 1985. And then, if you talk to anybody within electronics or software field, you'll get another political or biased aspect. Proprietary folks or those coding encryption algorithyms will agree as it's their primary source of income or living.

I'm going out on a limb here, but if I were within the field, I would use the packets as a doorway. Simple as that. Same thing as being a cop and lurking around bars for info. The more info you get, the more cases you solve. The more people you can write-off as not being a primary suspect, etc. Or, follow the money scenario. But, at the same time, the theory "the less info people get, the less crimes people are able to committ." Two ideologies. I'll let people decide which is more social or anti-social, or righteous path. As for me, being honest seems to be the real money maker and I reserve keeping my mouth shut as a last resort. So, sort of like the definition of rational thinking here.

Anyways, I enjoyed your feedback. It's rare these days to not see somebody bashing another persons' beliefs. I've probably put myself out on a limb on this issue, but feel I had to since I suspect everybody else are chained to a job these days.

It would be really great to actually hear the debating within the policy making sessions on this issue or legislature sessions. But from what I already saw with HB80, I won't be surprised to see somebody actually pushing a bad intentioned issue. Shrugs, politics for ya.

Sorry for the ugly long passionate responses, but somebody has to say something. I, too, recently could not find the Alaska law covering scanner usage. And, from memory, it does also state it's "illegal to repeat anything heard within a police frequency" by the scanner. So it's there, I just can't recall it. But as everybody as already reiterated, it would be retorical to go after the honest or good intentioned civilians. If they did, it would be likely be the fast track to getting fired. ;-)

Just wish, what I wrote, was already stated elsewhere. But since I've heard nothing, I'm left to writing it myself. Of which, still might be useless and wasted typing.
 

blue5011

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It would be fine if undercover ops are the only encrypted traffic. But I do not see need of routine radio traffic being encrypted.

Police agencies work for, and are funded, by the public. Just what are these public officials trying to hide? Their incompetence?

All public agency radio traffic in my area operates thru the MN statewide 800 mhz system. There would be a huge cost to have encryption keyed "ON" all individual radios (State Troopers, DoT, County Sheriff and Public Works, Fire, EMS, Hospitals, etc).
 

dougak

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I use the Uniden HomePatrol and have had good luck listening to ALMR, but it took a little work to get there. I think the problem I originally had was that the HP was scanning too many sites, despite setting my location and narrowing the range down to 0. I'm sure there's a better way, but what I did was use Sentinel to copy ALMR into its own favorites list, delete or permanently avoid all of the sites, then create a new site and manually enter only the control and alternate freqs from Alaska Land Mobile Radio (ALMR) Trunking System, Statewide, Alaska - Scanner Frequencies.

I'm new at this too, but based on my very limited testing and even more limited knowledge, it seems the HP would scan all sites, even if the site should be out of range. So, since most transmissions are pretty short, the transmissions usually end before the HP rolls back around to the right site. Prior to making this change, it would take about 10 seconds to scan through ALMR. Now I'm scanning all of ALMR in about 1-2 seconds. I'm picking up some freqs from APD, AST, etc.
 
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