Impact of ISP data caps on feed providers

[mtindor]

My point........... and US feed providers pay to provide feeds which bring in traffic to view the ads which RR gets paid for in addition to the premium subscriptions

Definitely not a Non-Profit....actually, the American Dream.

Ahh the Green-Eyed Monster rears it's head. It may or may not be the American Dream [you don't have balance to the actual income statement and balance sheet]. But we should all strive to live the American Dream. If one isn't living it, one should try harder.

It takes effort, skill, determination, and perhaps a little bit of luck -- mostly the first three though.

Mike

 

[SCPD]

All I have to say .... if you don't like paying for providing a feed, then don't. No one is forcing anyone to provide a feed here on RR.

You and I all know that Lindsay is making LOTS of money from RR ... and I think that you are I are just pissed that we didn't think of it first. But I will admit that even if we did, it has taken many years of work for RR to get to where it now is.

I give Lindsay all the credit in the world for making RR what it is today, he is to be commended in turning it into something we all enjoy. Sure he is living the American dream .... he deserves all that he gets from the RR site. He has worked hard to get where he is today.

 

[kg4ciu]

My single stream is about 170mb per 24 hour period. That's 5gb a month. That's only 3% of a 'tier 1' 150gb cap. If you're scraping by, buy a bigger plan or change providers.

I provide my stream just as something practical and fun for people who may not be ready to invest in a scanner of their own and all that.

what if you host 4 feeds, watch netflix , download a movie twice per month, listen to internet radio, host echolink send and receive contracts , and blueprints, google, and an ipbx

I build my internet cost in on contracts so thats covered, the rest is for my family entertainment.

I just stating that feed providers make concessions to provide feeds 24/7

 

[Stick0413]

Last month I used 161 GB of my 250 GB limit with Comcast... That is with my stream on here, Netflix on multiple devices at once (2 to 3, sometimes 4)... YouTube... Downloading a few movies... So I don't know what the big fuss is all about... If you don't want to stream to RR then don't.

 

[kg4ciu]

All I have to say .... if you don't like paying for providing a feed, then don't. No one is forcing anyone to provide a feed here on RR.

You and I all know that Lindsay is making LOTS of money from RR ... and I think that you are I are just pissed that we didn't think of it first. But I will admit that even if we did, it has taken many years of work for RR to get to where it now is.

I give Lindsay all the credit in the world for making RR what it is today, he is to be commended in turning it into something we all enjoy. Sure he is living the American dream .... he deserves all that he gets from the RR site. He has worked hard to get where he is today.

I think you're missing the point! most of us are totally cool with hosting feeds , but with ISP's imposing bandwidth caps, the amount of bandwidth we had devoted to hosting feeds has become tangible, because we have gone from an unlimited model to a limited model most of us I'm sure this includes most of you will put Our use of our bandwidth ahead of someone else especially when the other person makes a pretty penny .

 

[kg4ciu]

Last month I used 161 GB of my 250 GB limit with Comcast... That is with my stream on here, Netflix on multiple devices at once (2 to 3, sometimes 4)... YouTube... Downloading a few movies... So I don't know what the big fuss is all about... If you don't want to stream to RR then don't.

if you had att you'd owe them money for overage.

 

[SCPD]

The thing you are not getting here is that NO ONE is forcing you to provide feeds here at RR, and Lindsay is not obligated to subsidize you due to your isp limits. It is your responsibility to make sure you don't go over the limits, or be prepared to pay.

If you don't like the limits ... then change companies or don't provide a feed if you feel that is putting you over the limits. You are all in the drivers seat ... do as you please.

 

[OCO]

I appreciate your perspective on the contributor/subscriber “dilemma” that you seem to be facing. After reading your past few posts, I think there are some important points to be clarified:

1. RadioReference.com is a business. Make no mistake, I run the site as a for profit business with capitalistic underpinnings. This business takes a tremendous amount of time and effort to manage, including management, problem users, general users, development, coding, license fees, you name it. This business has significant costs every month to maintain every month. Just like Uniden, Radio Shack, Icom, etc… RadioReference.com attempts to, frankly, make as much money as we can. And, we cannot make money unless we provide a valuable service that the user community deems to be a good investment.

2. The development and technical architecture of this site is a very significant JOB. The entire architecture of the database was developed by me, and all the integration and backend components. Therefore, I do draw an income as compensation for my time and efforts in managing this site.

3. We have had more than 12,000 unique users submit information to the database since inception. While some of those users may be unique, I can assure you that there are a tremendous amount more people that have sent something in 5 times vs. those that have sent something 50 times.

4. The Premium subscriber rate that I mentioned (~3%) is the rate of members, who at some point in time in their lives, either made a donation to this site, or have subscribed for a premium subscription. We’ve been around for about 5 years, and your assumptions assume that 3% of members maintained their donation or subscription every year. The reality is that many people come and go in this hobby….. and the figure (I figure) is much lower for those who continue to stay at a premium status.

While I understand that some people would like to see a monetary incentive model for contributions, it is not something that will work in this open community, and I am not going to implement it. There is already an incentive plan in place – hopefully you take pleasure in sharing your information with the rest of the community.

I understand that some people might have significant heartburn that I make some money off of this site. It should be no difference if I make 1 million, 500K, 100K, 50K, 25K, or 1 dollar off of this site. The determining factor should be whether or not you get VALUE out of what this site provides. If Radio Shack made 1 Trillion dollars next year, would you reconsider buying a scanner from them? I doubt it.

The incentive to everyone is that RadioReference.com provides free access to every single piece of information that is sent to us, on an open and sharing platform to the world, and we never, ever, will ever change that approach. Your incentive is the platform that RadioReference.com provides to the community, free of charge, to share and discuss information related to our hobby. If someone doesn’t see the value of that, then they are free to participate elsewhere, hold on to their data, lurk, and not contribute to this site.

For those that see value in our value added features, then I encourage you become a premium subscriber, otherwise you are free to enjoy the site, free of charge.

Thanks to everyone for your support,

Lindsay

That's from 2007 when the issue was incentives for database submissions. I think it speaks for itself and pretty well covers the issue still.

(sorry for breaking my vow of silence on data caps..dejavu all over again -eh?).....

 

[thomast77]

I would like to provide a feed. But I have the 150gig at&t cap too. I have been monitoring my usage and I have reached 147gig the past few months. Towards the end of the month I have to stop using Netflix, youtube ect. Just to make sure I don't go over. What about some kindof vox setup where only voice traffic is sent so we don't waste bandwidth on Dead air? That should help some.

 

[OCO]

If you read the entire thread, you'll see that has been asked and Proscan is looking at it. There are varying opinions on how much difference it would make, but those currently providing feeds confirm a stream today generates about 5 GB per month. I guess it's all in the personal priorities..

I see in the news that Netflix is really raising heck about the caps... I

 

[MTS2000des]

If you read the entire thread, you'll see that has been asked and Proscan is looking at it. There are varying opinions on how much difference it would make, but those currently providing feeds confirm a stream today generates about 5 GB per month. I guess it's all in the personal priorities..

I see in the news that Netflix is really raising heck about the caps... I

and this was my whole point. The current RR streaming method places an unfair burden on the provider, who already are incurring financial costs (of keeping a PC on 24/7 and out of sleep mode, using a dedicated radio) and now using a finite amount of upstream data that could push one into an overage situation with their ISP.

The complementary subscription is of little value, I'd much rather take $30 to offset the real costs one incurs for making the feed available.

In the Scan America days, we ate these costs because it was a non-profit model, but I'm sorry, it seems one sided and unfair that a feed provider pays out while the site makes a pretty penny and everyone else pays for that. You are 100 percent correct, anyone is free to host a feed anywhere they would like, all I am saying is if the site is going to make a profit, they should at least either make technical changes to ensure the feed providers aren't eating into their now metered pipe, and also putting them on the radar of their ISP.

Sidebar: you should read your residential DSL and Cable Terms of Service, get on their radar and they will go so far as to can you for running a commercial service on a residential connection. Or start charging you a business rate. Thanks to the MPAA and RIAA, ISP's are becoming more mindful of how their service is used. People are getting warning letters from Comcast and Time Warner for LEGAL file sharing, cloud use (Amazon), etc. The industry is a regulation free for all, and they hold all the cards. With so little choice for broadband at home, you either accept their terms and contracts of adhesion or live in the 1980's.

Things are changing in this industry. and because no one is paying close attention, the players are doing whatever they want. This can impact you, and all I am saying is providing a RR feed can get expensive and become even more headache with some of these changes. If RR wants to stay ahead of the curve, working with developers to create a more efficient streaming model that isn't so data intensive is a necessity not a luxury.

5GB per feed is a lot of data. All the major cellphone companies (except Sprint) cap their data packages at 2GB and you pay per GB over that. Some like T-Mobile throttle you to slow speeds over a certain amount. Unless regulators get involved, this isn't going to go away.

and then theirs the issue of how data use is calculated, and where. No clear standards, so it's you word against your provider. Good luck with that.:roll:

 

[SCPD]

and this was my whole point. The current RR streaming method places an unfair burden on the provider, who already are incurring financial costs (of keeping a PC on 24/7 and out of sleep mode, using a dedicated radio) and now using a finite amount of upstream data that could push one into an overage situation with their ISP.

I personally believe that if you don't like the way RR is being run ... then just don't provide a feed so it won't effect you.

I don't see that the OP has a feed anyways .. so I don't know what all the fuss is about.

People that have read this thread know that RR is here to make money. Just accept it. They are here to make money off the site and licensing agreements and such. They are not about to share the profits ....... you are fighting a losing battle.

If you don't want to pay the price of running a pc 24/7 .. then don't. No one is forcing anyone to provide a feed and incur any expenses.

 

[Stick0413]

if you had att you'd owe them money for overage.

I am glad I don't have AT&T nor even have the option to have them for that matter.

I personally believe that if you don't like the way RR is being run ... then just don't provide a feed so it won't effect you.

I don't see that the OP has a feed anyways .. so I don't know what all the fuss is about.

People that have read this thread know that RR is here to make money. Just accept it. They are here to make money off the site and licensing agreements and such. They are not about to share the profits ....... you are fighting a losing battle.

If you don't want to pay the price of running a pc 24/7 .. then don't. No one is forcing anyone to provide a feed and incur any expenses.

Amen to that if you do not like how it is run here then take your feed down and if you choose host it elsewhere or start something else yourself.

 

[Stick0413]

Oh I am also lucky that if it came down to it I would host my feed from the bowling alley my family owns that is on Comcast Business Class which has no caps at all.

 

[CoolCat]

Providing a live audio feed is voluntary, nobody is required to do it, and nobody is forced to purchase any equipment to use for it. Anybody who feels that the "free" premium membership is not adaquete compensation should simply stop providing the feed. It really IS that simple.

The feeds are a revenue generator for Radio Reference. RR is a FOR-PROFIT company, to my knowledge they have never claimed to be anything else. If you don't like that somebody else is profitting from the feed you provide, then simply stop providing the feed. Again, it really IS that simple.

Personally, I think the free premium membership is well worth the very small cost of providing my [anonymous] feed, and aparently hundreds of other members do as well. I didn't have to buy a single thing, or upgrade ISP service to set mine up. I own multiple scanners (including the old Pro-90 that I use for the feed), I already had fast internet service (FiOS), and I made an audio cable from parts I already had. On the PC side I already used an old low-power EeePC netbook as a "server" for the MagicJack that I use as my home phone service. I would not have provided a feed if I had to purchase anything that would cost more than the premium membership is worth. If others chose to spend thbeir own money on equipment/services, then that is their own personal choice, and is done at their own personal expense.

That being said; standard membership at RR which gives users full access to the database, wiki, and forums is 100% free. Anyone who chooses to stop providing a feed is still entitled to the free services that the standard membership provides for free.

:roll:

 

[kg4ciu]

I am glad I don't have AT&T nor even have the option to have them for that matter.





Amen to that if you do not like how it is run here then take your feed down and if you choose host it elsewhere or start something else yourself.

What if we all did that in Masses then what?

 

[MTS2000des]

I personally believe that if you don't like the way RR is being run ... then just don't provide a feed so it won't effect you.

I don't see that the OP has a feed anyways .. so I don't know what all the fuss is about.

People that have read this thread know that RR is here to make money. Just accept it. They are here to make money off the site and licensing agreements and such. They are not about to share the profits ....... you are fighting a losing battle.

If you don't want to pay the price of running a pc 24/7 .. then don't. No one is forcing anyone to provide a feed and incur any expenses.

Did you miss the part where I said I provided a feed for over a year?
I am not asking about sharing profits, just covering raw costs to provide such feeds that others make a profit off of. Premium membership doesn't offset that and is of no cash value, it's not like I could resell it to recover anything tangible.

You are correct, one can always go elsewhere. I can listen to my radios anytime I wish, at no additional cost to myself.

 

[kg4ciu]

Providing a live audio feed is voluntary, nobody is required to do it, and nobody is forced to purchase any equipment to use for it. Anybody who feels that the "free" premium membership is not adaquete compensation should simply stop providing the feed. It really IS that simple.

The feeds are a revenue generator for Radio Reference. RR is a FOR-PROFIT company, to my knowledge they have never claimed to be anything else. If you don't like that somebody else is profitting from the feed you provide, then simply stop providing the feed. Again, it really IS that simple.

Personally, I think the free premium membership is well worth the very small cost of providing my [anonymous] feed, and aparently hundreds of other members do as well. I didn't have to buy a single thing, or upgrade ISP service to set mine up. I own multiple scanners (including the old Pro-90 that I use for the feed), I already had fast internet service (FiOS), and I made an audio cable from parts I already had. On the PC side I already used an old low-power EeePC netbook as a "server" for the MagicJack that I use as my home phone service. I would not have provided a feed if I had to purchase anything that would cost more than the premium membership is worth. If others chose to spend thbeir own money on equipment/services, then that is their own personal choice, and is done at their own personal expense.

That being said; standard membership at RR which gives users full access to the database, wiki, and forums is 100% free. Anyone who chooses to stop providing a feed is still entitled to the free services that the standard membership provides for free.

:roll:

Your right !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what i'll do is start selling ad space on my feeds and offer an alternative feed for folks that pay!!

 

[bezking]

I think we've more than covered RR's business model and the technical aspects of bandwidth control.

Thread closed.