IMPD On Illegal tac frequencies 156Mhz

[rdale]

Nothing in that clip is open for 'opinion'... The law he quoted is CLEARLY referring to eavesdropping / telemetry, but he left that out in order to 'make his case.'

 

[mikekoplin]

Yeah, there are frequencies in the 156.xxx area of the band for assignment to the public safety agencies. Just because they are assignable doesn't mean you can hijack them for use whenever you want. You still have to obtain a license from the FCC for them and use a type accepted radio.


The biggest problem I have is there is a well known use of modified amateur radios being used by officers for tac channels. The admin knows this and does nothing.

From my understanding there has been offical complaints to uncle sam in the past but there isn't enough resources to enforce it.

You need a license from the FCC for 156.xxx Frequencies glad i live in Canada it an open frequency

 

[jerk]

WRONG! GO TO APCO YOU WILL SEE THEY PAY BIG FEES AND GO TO THE FCC WEB SITE AS WELL

They pay coordination fees to APCO or other coordinators. The government required license Fees are not paid by legitimate government agencies.

From http://www.fcc.gov/fees/
"Section 6003 (a) of the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993 (Public Law 103-66) added a new "Section 9 to the Act. Section 9 (a) of the Communications Act authorizes the Commission to collect annual regulatory fees to recover the annual costs of its enforcement, policy and rulemaking, user information, and international activities. 47 U.S.C. 159 (a). 47 U.S.C. 159 (b) (1) (A) and 47 U.S.C. 159 (g). The Schedule of Fees sets forth annual regulatory fees for specific categories of regulates in the Mass Media, Common Carrier, Wireless, International and Cable Television Services. The regulatory fees do not apply to government entities, amateur radio operator licensees (other than amateur vanity call signs), and non-profit entities."

Read that last line carefully, and the link is there for you check it out yourself.

And from the 2007 Filing Fee guide:
PART 90 FEE EXEMPTIONS:
Eligibles filing as Governmental Entities are exempt from fees. There is no fee for applications filed for purposes of Amendment to a Pending Application (unless adding call signs/lease ids, adding waivers, or changing Exemption for the Fee(s) to ‘No’), Administrative Update to a License/Lease/Sublease, a Request for Withdrawal of a Pending Application, Request to Cancel a License/Lease/Sublease, Notification of
Consummation (unless requesting a Rule Waiver for § 1.948[d]), Request for Extension of Time for Consummation (unless requesting a Rule Waiver for § 1.948[d]), Spectrum Manager Lease Notifications (except for purpose of Modification), Private Commons Arrangements, Notification of Construction/Coverage Requirements, and Registered Locations for the Intelligent Transportation Service and 3650 – 3700 MHz Band."
And some of the stuff that MECA is doing would incur an application fee. But generally Government Entities are exempt. And I'm sure there is more, but I know of no governmental organization in my area that has paid a fee to the FCC.
AL

 

[W9NES]

IMPD WAS ON 154.770 And 157.025 last night and the IMPD Officers were using profane language.One officer called another officer the "A******" word again. If any other people in the Indianapolis area find frequencies that are being used by IMPD that are illegal please feel free to post them here and share them with all of us.Thank You...

 

[WA9JGB]

Were any of these frequencies used a few years ago? Maybe at one time these frequencies were licensed to Marion County and the old radios were put in storage for years, and now they have got into the wrong hands. I will pull out my old Indyscan.com print outs and check these frequencies out. You know in the 80's and even in the 90's VHF was the big band in Indiana after the low band years. It went from 40mhz to 155mhz to now 800. Im sure alot of those radio are still laying around somewhere, and maybe they had the frequency labels on them. The old trunk mount radios are poping up all over Ebay right now, and alot of the sellers are in Indiana. Anyone can buy a modified Ham Radio and use it anywhere on the VHF band. I myself have heard trafiic from the Beech Grove area on the 146.520 Nat call frequency. I was talking to Marion County's EMCOMM manager about this the other day, and he also heard the exact same thing the same night. Two IMPD officers were talking back and forth giving no call signs and acting stupid on the 146.520, and then a call came out and they swithed to MECA system 1. I was not able to get the unit numbers, but the other guy listening DID and now the two officers are in big trouble. It's one thing to transmit on a frequency in the public service band, but a totally different offense to transmit on Ham Radio without a license. I agree one is as bad as the other, but transmiting on frequencies and causing no interference sometimes turns out to be no big deal. There are several itenerant frequencies on the VHF band that they could use, and use a PL tone with little or no interference but for some reason they are not. just my $.02

 

[kb9sxk]

WRONG! GO TO APCO YOU WILL SEE THEY PAY BIG FEES AND GO TO THE FCC WEB SITE AS WELL

No sir,

I have never paid for a city -county lic. I have paid for freq coordination. but that is different.

 

[ecps92]

Not misleading.

I will find the proper section, it is allowed, as it occurs for lots of U/C operations.

Chill a little here. someone must of gotten a ticket and is just irked.

Are you serious? Did you REALLY intentionally cut off the rest of that section? You would INTENTIONALLY mislead people, then post a link that doesn't work?

(i) these are modified ham radios, which would not be certified
(ii) okay, meets that
(iii) must NOT be voice, yet they are using voice. Two strikes (no strikes allowed)

The more I read, the more I realize this is about communication taps or similar, NOT daily chatter.

Wow. I'd be embarassed to have posted that clip to intentionally mislead others.

===

(i) In accordance with Sec. 90.203 and Sec. 2.803 of this chapter,
the transmitter must be of a type which has been certificated by the
Commission.
(ii) The carrier frequency shall be within the bands listed below
and must be maintained within 0.005 percent of the frequency of
operation. Use on assigned channel center frequencies is not required.

30.85-30.87 MHz
30.89-30.91 MHz
30.93-30.95 MHz
30.97-30.99 MHz
31.01-31.03 MHz
31.05-31.07 MHz
31.09-31.11 MHz
31.13-31.15 MHz
31.17-31.19 MHz
31.21-31.23 MHz
31.25-31.27 MHz
31.29-31.31 MHz
31.33-31.35 MHz
31.37-31.39 MHz
31.41-31.43 MHz
31.45-31.47 MHz
31.49-31.51 MHz
31.53-31.55 MHz
31.57-31.59 MHz
31.61-31.63 MHz
31.65-31.67 MHz
31.69-31.71 MHz
31.73-31.75 MHz
31.77-31.79 MHz
31.81-31.83 MHz
31.85-31.87 MHz
31.89-31.91 MHz
31.93-31.95 MHz
31.97-32.00 MHz
33.00-33.03 MHz
33.05-33.07 MHz
33.41-34.00 MHz
37.00-37.43 MHz
37.89-38.00 MHz
39.00-40.00 MHz
42.00-42.91 MHz
44.61-45.91 MHz
45.93-45.95 MHz
45.97-45.99 MHz
46.01-46.03 MHz
46.05-46.60 MHz
47.00-47.41 MHz
150.995-151.490 MHz
153.740-154.445 MHz
154.635-155.195 MHz
155.415-156.250 MHz
158.715-159.465 MHz
453.0125-453.9875 MHz
458.0125-458.9875 MHz
460.0125-460.5125 MHz
460.5625-460.6375 MHz
462.9375-462.9875 MHz
465.0125-465.5125 MHz
465.5625-465.6375 MHz
467.9375-467.9875 MHz

(iii) The emitted signal shall be non-voice modulation (type PO
emission).
(iv) The maximum occupied bandwidth, containing 99 percent of the
radiated power, shall not exceed 2.0 kHz.
(v) The transmitter output power shall not exceed a mean power of 30
mW nor shall any peak exceed 1 watt peak power, as measured into a 50
ohm resistive load. Should the transmitter be supplied with a
permanently attached antenna or should the transmitter and antenna
combination be contained in a sealed unit, the following standard may be
used in lieu of the above: the field strength of the fundamental signal
of the transmitter and antenna combination shall not exceed 0.4 V/m mean
or 2.3 V/m peak when measured at a distance of 3 meters.
(vi) The transmitter shall contain positive means to limit the
transmission time to no more than 10 days. In the event of a malfunction
of this positive means, the transmitter signal shall cease. The use of
battery life to accomplish the transmission time limitation is
permissible.

 

[ecps92]

Nothing was intentionally clipped. The URL was posted. Do some more reading.

It's not really a bubble, but it sure does bring shame down on the hobby and ham radio operators when someone would clip out snippets here and there for the purpose of intentionally misleading the RR forum users.

 

[BigDog-911]

Thankful I live in Kentucky where nothing illegal occurs on our radio systems.

 

[WA9JGB]

Believe me it's going on. You just have to be one of those guys that keeps the old frequencies programed in for years after everyone thinks there not being used. I never delete any frequency just because they move to a new system or frequency range.

Thankful I live in Kentucky where nothing illegal occurs on our radio systems.

 

[rdale]

Nothing was intentionally clipped. The URL was posted. Do some more reading.

It was clipped - he said so right above your post. The section is about electronic eavesdropping.

 

[EngineerZ]

Isn't this the illegal use of police radios that the Marion County Sheriff's Office has jurisdiction over? Perhaps these illegal radios are the same ones the pre-IMPD Sheriff's deputies seized from a hotel on the NW side of Indy and put in the property room a while back. [Tongue firmly in cheek]

Seriously, this unauthorized use of radios has gone on for years within the Marion County SO and I guess it has carried over to the IMPD. IIRC, at one point in the '90s they were on 2 meters and they moved up to the 15x.xxx freqs when the hams started making a small ruckus. I think this issue (including subject matter and the language used) has even the made news in at least one Indy media outlet in years past. Upper leadership tried to step in and put a stop to it years ago but apparently these radios are back, if they even went away in the first place...

I tried searching Radio Reference and could not find any reference to these "TAC" radios in older discussions. I know it was discussed on the ScanIndiana mailing list and I found few references in the old Indyscan newsletters as far back as 1999. Here is an example:

http://web.archive.org/web/20040603043746/indyscan.com/newsletter/2002/032002.htm
(Check out the first entry in the "comments" section...)

--z

 

[kadetklapp]

I think that W9NES is just looking out for the good of the scanning / amateur radio hobby. I do not think he takes it too seriously. Thanks for being aware Tim.

Sounds to me like he has a beef with the police, and is acting out as such.

 

[retroactiv]

great comment on Indyscan, I don't think that even if you get IMPD to send out a memo about not using tac radios, that they will cease using them, They have been using them for to long and they have now become part of the mainstay it seems like from reading all of these comments, if someone(s) has a problem then they should just turn it into the FCC, if there are enough complaints then they might do something about it, but I don't think that the FCC has arrest powers (I might be wrong), so who would make the arrests in this case? Prob IMPD... and that isn't going to happen.

 

[jerk]

great comment on Indyscan, I don't think that even if you get IMPD to send out a memo about not using tac radios, that they will cease using them, They have been using them for to long and they have now become part of the mainstay it seems like from reading all of these comments, if someone(s) has a problem then they should just turn it into the FCC, if there are enough complaints then they might do something about it, but I don't think that the FCC has arrest powers (I might be wrong), so who would make the arrests in this case? Prob IMPD... and that isn't going to happen.

Deleted

 

[mtindor]

For those of you who want to play radio police, I've got the following to say:

I cannot believe that people on this website are complaining about somebody using frequencies unlawfully. We are a bunch of monitoring enthusiasts. This website would not exist if there was nothing to listen to.

1. You aren't the FCC - stop acting like it. You're merely a scanner monitoring zombie

(for clarification, a scanner monitoring zombie too - so don't get your panties ruffled)

2. These are exactly the kinds of transmissions that are of interest to us - We want to hear anything and everything, especially things that people think aren't being heard.

It makes absolutely no sense for a bunch of scanner enthusiasts to B & M, try to wear the hat of FCC official, and potentially PO people within your area where you live because you want to play radio police.

Things could be worse... imagine not having anything to listen to because everything is encrypted and out of our reach. Be thankful for what you can hear.

Mike

 

[rdale]

It's one thing to complain about it... Another to say "they are police, they can do whatever they want, even if it includes breaking the law."

Days now - and nobody can show the section which says police can use any frequency whenever they want with whatever equipment they want.

 

[SCPD]

For those of you who want to play radio police, I've got the following to say:

I cannot believe that people on this website are complaining about somebody using frequencies unlawfully. We are a bunch of monitoring enthusiasts. This website would not exist if there was nothing to listen to.

1. You aren't the FCC - stop acting like it. You're merely a scanner monitoring zombie

(for clarification, a scanner monitoring zombie too - so don't get your panties ruffled)

2. These are exactly the kinds of transmissions that are of interest to us - We want to hear anything and everything, especially things that people think aren't being heard.

It makes absolutely no sense for a bunch of scanner enthusiasts to B & M, try to wear the hat of FCC official, and potentially PO people within your area where you live because you want to play radio police.

Things could be worse... imagine not having anything to listen to because everything is encrypted and out of our reach. Be thankful for what you can hear.

Mike

May be it should be Encrypted from people like you

 

[pappy1]

The FCC does have enforcement powers to enforce the rules and regulations given to them
by Federal Statutes, and The Public Safety frequencies are not generally monitored as a rule but the FCC will act on any complaint an agency has.

They will monitor the problem frequency and locate the source and they can/will have you in front of a federal Judge if the violation warrants it. < all of their arrest are Federal Arrests.>

Their arrest power is for FCC violations only.

If cops are the source of the problem the FCC treats them the same as ordinary citizens and can/will confiscate the radios if it is a hands on arrest.

So, if W9NES has a problem with the illegal use of the frequencies then it is cause for him to be concerned, and he should complain about the foul language to the regional office for his district and the matter will be looked into, cops or no cops.

BTW: To W9NES, Indiana is of interest to me as I hail from Lake County.

This info comes from a friend I have that is employed in my district regional office. So give W9NES the respect he deserves for letting us all know where to monitor for some juicy listening.

 

[WA9JGB]

For those of you who want to play radio police, I've got the following to say:

I cannot believe that people on this website are complaining about somebody using frequencies unlawfully. We are a bunch of monitoring enthusiasts. This website would not exist if there was nothing to listen to.

1. You aren't the FCC - stop acting like it. You're merely a scanner monitoring zombie

(for clarification, a scanner monitoring zombie too - so don't get your panties ruffled)

2. These are exactly the kinds of transmissions that are of interest to us - We want to hear anything and everything, especially things that people think aren't being heard.

It makes absolutely no sense for a bunch of scanner enthusiasts to B & M, try to wear the hat of FCC official, and potentially PO people within your area where you live because you want to play radio police.

Things could be worse... imagine not having anything to listen to because everything is encrypted and out of our reach. Be thankful for what you can hear.

Mike

I agree with what you are saying, but you need to see it from our side. As a Amateur radio operator I agree with W9NES.....I do enjoy listening to stuff like this, but I studied, passed, and PAID for my license. I think that anyone anywhere needs to be licensed to transmit on any band other that the FRS or 11 meter band (CB). It's the law and there should NOT be exceptions.