Jackson County Looking at a P25 Upgrade

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Metrofire31

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Why not Habersham? I haven't tried them in quite a while, but at least as of last year (I think) I listened to them pretty regularly on their DMR Con+ trunked radio system. Like White County, all of Habersham County's DMR frequencies are Part 22, which means the FCC database isn't as informative as it is for agencies that use Part 90 frequencies (which is most of them). Thus, I figured out White County and Habersham County tower locations and DMR frequency and talkgroup usage the old fashioned way - lots of scanning and searching - and then I updated the RR DB entries for those two counties. I know White County has vacillated to varying degrees of encryption the last couple of years, but if Habersham has more recently switched to encryption, I wasn't aware (though not entirely surprised - Joey Terrell isn't exactly a model of government transparency).

Dan - In spite of moving from western NC over the summer, I spent a considerable amount of time in/out of Habersham over the past six years and I have to admit that their DMR publics safety system seems to be operating well based on my monitoring (thanks to you for getting me started). I cannot address the issues raised by the consultant in Jackson County but the four tower sites in Habersham allow coverage in a wider area than just the Habersham county boundaries. My perception has always been than DMR is a commercial product that while it may function aqdequately for public safety, experiences documented from around the country appear to indicate that its lifespan is limited - but is there even a digital trunked system that reaches the same point at some time in its life cycle? BTW, I've not encountered ANY encryption in Habersham during my six years of monitoring - clearly not on Fire/EMS and I've never heard it on law either.

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1268

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If they join us in Hall, say good bye to hearing them. Except fire pagers will remain on VHF most likely, as the P25 pagers are quite expensive. As soon as we are done fielding our Phase II system, we be flipping the switch to full encryption on fire and EMS. All law enforcement on our system is already encrypted (mostly, some interesting things pop up in surprising placed). Keeping Event 1-4 unencrypted because no one wants to share our encryption keys, and of course we have the interop 800 mhz repeaters. CID is currently unencrypted but will be if they make up their minds. Several other agencies like NEGMC hospital and Medical Transport, among others, also use our system and are fully encrypted. So nothing of interest will be heard unless you work with us or listen to the occasional Event 4 Lake Lanier boat accident or drowning. That's the only way we can communicate with Forsyth and Gwinnett anyway, who are also encrypted on the fire/EMS side. It's funny they mention hooking into our system, since they would have talked to me about that option and they haven't. I'm not too keen on letting Jackson on board, maybe Taggart is but he's an old Motorola guy, and a nice fellow - but I think we both agree we are not into the sharing game, sorry Jackson. Our school buses just went VHF DMR and we have many talkgroups that are actually unencrypted currently, but people aren't generally aware of them at all and wouldn't be unless we do some very serious interoperabilitiy. Once we get done fielding all the APX's though, those holes will be closed too and encrypted - sorry, it's what everyone here wants. I like transparency but am greatly outnumbered in that. I also like interoperability but honestly, every time we send an assignment to Gwinnett to work a structure fire or to interestate 85 to work a multi vehicle accident, the officer coordinates with the other county and sometimes is given a radio - but our guys seldom have reason to need a radio to talk to another county, even in out of county work and chases/emergencies. They prefer talking back to their own (our) dispatch anyway, and the guys that go interior on a house fire don't all carry radios anyway; the policy is a minimum of 1 radio per search or attack crew, and although we'd rather have everyone with a radio, we routinely work events (and most every jurisdiction does) where the radio doesn't even get out of the structure to a repeater on the TRS, and almost nobody every actually uses the simplex fireground frequencies we have - they don't want to use them, they don't care about them, the don't think about them. We just communicate using our good old voices instead. That makes me nervous at times if there is a poor fellow to get separated from his crew or falls into the basement, but we live in an imperfect world. Heck we run Med 2 and 11 into White County quite often when they run out of ambulances and there's no reason we need to talk on their VHF DMR system, they keep up with their times and assignments via our dispatch and the MDTs (when they actually happen to be working!).

Plus good old DNR and GSP have radios that communicate outstandingly with us on our system, in addition to their VHF P25 frequencies - so interop with them is seemless.

I find it sad and funny at the Jackson County findings. We work in Braselton frequently with Jackson fire/SO/Braselton PD, and the guys never seem to have problems getting out on their radio, especially with all the sites they have. I85 is, strangely, somewhat more dodgy for them in coverage but one time we did mutual aid with them on a multivehicle accident, they just used one of our radios to talk to our dispatch who then relayed a message back to their dispatch via phone. Shrug. Poor taxpayers though, pay for 18-20 years on a system they will be told is obsolete in less than 10 years.

Great post! I had wondered where they came up with "we will just hook into Hall county " when I have not heard anything about it in the Times etc. It's all kind of dodgy in that when they were sold that DMR system Moto told them an upgrade was possible at the 8-10- year mark to extend it out. I was in the room for that.

Honestly with 9 sites we get solid coverage. I kind of wondered if they can't get anything more out of Turbo why they couldn't shift to kenwood nexedge and still keep the sites and 400 mhz spectrum ??? Seems like a more cost effective approach then 800mhz phase 2 with all new towers ?
 

RRR

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What possible benefit would going from 'Trbo to NXDN be?

For one, you lose your 2 talkpaths per channel. The radios aren't as durable as Motorola's, and the 90's called and want their displays back....
 

w4amp

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I'm surprised this rural county has millions of dollars it can spend on radio systems every seven years. Unless Federal funds are involved.
 

MTS2000des

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I'm surprised this rural county has millions of dollars it can spend on radio systems every seven years. Unless Federal funds are involved.
The cost is much lower when agencies join resources together to build regional systems. Cobb county has proven this. It's always a better deal to partner up with folks. The benefits of fleet mapping that spans these agencies also improves interoperability across the system.
Funding for P25 compliant systems and subscribers does exist at the Federal level. These grants do NOT extend to proprietary business grade radio systems/subscribers such as DMR, NXDN, LTR, etc.
 
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Yes, however the key to regional systems is that neighboring jurisdictions are not hostile to you, not paranoid about you having their encryption key, and willing to make time to get together and actually talk and plan and work with you. So what I'm saying is, with few exceptions, regional systems that aren't hosted and managed by a higher organization (for instance a statewide system where the benefits outweigh local politics - so you can create your fiefdom in your county if you wish but fiscally joining the state system would be better) are not as common as they really should be. You are absolutely right, it is so much better to partner up with folks. However the problem isn't the technology as we all know; it's the personalities. It's the human factor that makes communications beneficial for many more folks (like a regional system) or only support your own personal area of control (this is my county - there are many like it, but this one is mine. And so I shall not let anyone in or play with us).

It's really simple. When you're friends with your buddy the system admin to your north and west, you're more likely to get a cooperative system or at least better planning and mutually beneficial decisions. And then when you don't like that annoying controlling guy in the county to your south, you'll have no cooperation or planning and you're really hesitant to give him your encryption key, cause he's weird and annoying and not my friend.

I mean, can you imagine operating your city or county radio system in a metropolitan area such as Washington DC with THOSE personalities? They have councils that get together for mutual aid purposes, but still, look at how many systems exist! Then consider if it's really a good idea to have every jurisdiction in your area in each firefighter's radio. It's hard enough sometimes to get some people to find a tac channel on their own system!

It's always the human factors. That's why I'm nice to everyone as much as I can be. I mean, getting what I want is not the reason I'm nice to people - I'm nice to people because I really like every person who can be liked. However things get done so much better with a friend than an enemy.

Fortunately when I'm out working a call in the field out of my jurisdiction, like mutual aid for instance, I carry an Ace up my sleeve - my voice. I just yell to someone with a radio or an officer and let them worry about calling in to the correct dispatch center for what is needed.
 
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MTS2000des

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Yes, however the key to regional systems is that neighboring jurisdictions are not hostile to you, not paranoid about you having their encryption key, and willing to make time to get together and actually talk and plan and work with you.
This is true regardless of one building a regional system, or a single county system. There are plenty of counties who like a walled garden. This is their option however they also ensure that interoperability is limited and in metro areas where offenders cross jurisdictional boundaries, this proves a liability. The county I work we don't play that game and all mutual aid partners are welcomed with open arms to our system, and we have mutual aid resources with console presence that are available for use as well as patching to our primary dispatch talkgroups should something major break out. We don't charge any fees for IDs for authorized agencies and streamline the process through a simple MOU to get access.

Building relationships is the key to success in this business. Those that don't are the ones who have to answer to constituents when bad things happen and those who show up to help can't talk.
 

1268

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From Monday's BOC meeting: Approve the proposal from TUSA Consulting Services II, LLC (TUSA) to provide consulting services for the procurement of a new public safety radio communication system. The cost for these services will be based on actual expenses and hours worked, not to exceed $39,780.
 
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Why blow up to $39,780? Just do what everyone around here does; go to Motorola, have them tell you what to buy, don't question it, wipe hands on pants. Done. No need for the consultant. I mean I'm sure Harris would put an offer in, but they're not getting a contract around here. The best market penetration they've had is putting a few handhelds on a couple of local systems as a trial.
 

1268

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Why blow up to $39,780? Just do what everyone around here does; go to Motorola, have them tell you what to buy, don't question it, wipe hands on pants. Done. No need for the consultant. I mean I'm sure Harris would put an offer in, but they're not getting a contract around here. The best market penetration they've had is putting a few handhelds on a couple of local systems as a trial.

Actually TUSA did the same thing in Floyd county when Jackson's current manager was there and it ended up going to Harris. I would say that TUSA getting the contract opens a door for Harris..... at the very least it makes the big M get out their pencils and do some work.
 
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