Jackson County P-25

1268

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The new Jackson County P25 System goes live starting tomorrow with portable's changing over. Mobiles getting done systematically through September. Everything should be changed over 100% by October 1st. Fully encrypted for the most part.

Goodbye Jackson County, GA radio traffic, it's been a nice long run.
 

ctiller

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:( I have great memories of buying crystals for my first scanner at radio shack listening to Commerce/Jackson county 155.295 and 155.67 funny how I can still remember those so many years later. wish they'd go back to the analog
 

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UPDATE: While the system has been working well, there are some issues with paging using Unication pagers and encryption, or so they suspect. It's interesting that this was to have been tested way before going live.
I suspect Jackson county may also need to build another Tower in the South Jackson area in the future as well..
 

lucas2121

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It's mainly when the pager are in fringe areas or getting weak signal.
 

ctiller

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did they ever use the system unencrypted or was it encrypted from day one? just curious
 

1268

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did they ever use the system unencrypted or was it encrypted from day one? just curious
It was tested and run encrypted day 1.... I think the easy solution would be to create an unencrypted talk group just for paging and then everyone goes en route etc on an assigned encrypted talk group but what do I know :)
 

DanRollman

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It was tested and run encrypted day 1.... I think the easy solution would be to create an unencrypted talk group just for paging and then everyone goes en route etc on an assigned encrypted talk group but what do I know :)

When a system encrypts non-sensitive communications like the water department or school busses, their encryption philosophy becomes untethered from arguments about bad actors being able to misuse law enforcement or other communications, whether they be burglars, protesters, street racers, or otherwise. If the school bus and sanitation communications are encrypted, you know you're dealing with a jurisdiction that simply doesn't desire its citizenry to be aware of what it's government is doing in real time - at that point it's a philosophical thing about whether any local government radio communications ought to be heard by anyone who doesn't receive a W-2 from the government entity, and not about officer safety or anything of the sort. For better or worse.

So when it comes to encryption, once you know whether you are dealing with a jurisdiction that is concerned about protecting certain communications that arguably warrant protection vs. a jurisdiction that philosophically doesn't think citizens ought to know anything about what's happening in the county, then you know whether they'd be open to putting fire dispatches on an unencrypted talkgroup to solve a reception issue. If they don't want you to be able to know what school bus drivers are telling their dispatcher, you can be assured they place the secrecy of their even-non-sensitive government conduct ahead of any concern about whether individual fire or EMS calls might be missed or delayed.
 

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When a system encrypts non-sensitive communications like the water department or school busses, their encryption philosophy becomes untethered from arguments about bad actors being able to misuse law enforcement or other communications, whether they be burglars, protesters, street racers, or otherwise. If the school bus and sanitation communications are encrypted, you know you're dealing with a jurisdiction that simply doesn't desire its citizenry to be aware of what it's government is doing in real time - at that point it's a philosophical thing about whether any local government radio communications ought to be heard by anyone who doesn't receive a W-2 from the government entity, and not about officer safety or anything of the sort. For better or worse.

So when it comes to encryption, once you know whether you are dealing with a jurisdiction that is concerned about protecting certain communications that arguably warrant protection vs. a jurisdiction that philosophically doesn't think citizens ought to know anything about what's happening in the county, then you know whether they'd be open to putting fire dispatches on an unencrypted talkgroup to solve a reception issue. If they don't want you to be able to know what school bus drivers are telling their dispatcher, you can be assured they place the secrecy of their even-non-sensitive government conduct ahead of any concern about whether individual fire or EMS calls might be missed or delayed.
Well stated.
 

wsp44

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Wasn't Tusa the consultant for Jackson county? They typically do a conceptual coverage design in the RFP process that illustrates where towers should be located, and Jackson probably paid them a pretty penny to do so.
 

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Wasn't Tusa the consultant for Jackson county? They typically do a conceptual coverage design in the RFP process that illustrates where towers should be located, and Jackson probably paid them a pretty penny to do so.
Yes, they were, they were also the ones who said the pager issues are most likely coming from encryption and that the system wasn't built to use those contrary to the RFP.
 

DanRollman

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...and Jackson probably paid them a pretty penny to do so.

"...and Jackson probably paid them a pretty penny to do so write a report saying what the people who hired them wanted the Board of Commissions to hear."

There, I fixed it for you.
 

wsp44

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"...and Jackson probably paid them a pretty penny to do so write a report saying what the people who hired them wanted the Board of Commissions to hear."

There, I fixed it for you.
You're spot on with that one. I'm sure Tusa will claim they designed a "state of the art" P25 system that solved every single communication issue Jackson ever had. A quick google search and you find this.... They probably paid these "experts" $200K+ to come up with this BS, and when an issue arises they quickly point the finger to who ever is implementing the solution.... that they designed.

Screenshot 2024-10-15 at 11.09.13 AM.png
 

kb4he

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I have attended several TUSA public presentations and read many of their written "Needs Assessment Reports" prepared for various counties, including Jackson. These folks are P25 Sales masquerading as technical consultants. They may have technical people on staff, they may be vendor neutral, but their sole job is to sell you a P25 system whether you can afford it or not.
 

DanRollman

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I have attended several TUSA public presentations and read many of their written "Needs Assessment Reports" prepared for various counties, including Jackson. These folks are P25 Sales masquerading as technical consultants. They may have technical people on staff, they may be vendor neutral, but their sole job is to sell you a P25 system whether you can afford it or not.

TUSA frequently recommends MotoTRBO systems - at least they did to many rural Georgia counties. So I don't think they are P25-specific. I really do think they are happy to prepare a report telling a board of commissions they should approve whatever the person who hired them (and will pay them) wants to get approved, whether that be P25, MotoTRBO or something else.

To be clear, they are not unique among local government consultants. I'm confident the consultants who make recommendations for new computer systems, lighting at the county stadium, or roadway designs are similarly influenced by what the IT director, parks director, or transportation director wants the BoC to be told about the project and recommended bid criteria, recognizing that the bid criteria are typically tailored to achieve a specific vendor result.
 

kb4he

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TUSA frequently recommends MotoTRBO systems - at least they did to many rural Georgia counties. So I don't think they are P25-specific. I really do think they are happy to prepare a report telling a board of commissions they should approve whatever the person who hired them (and will pay them) wants to get approved, whether that be P25, MotoTRBO or something else.

To be clear, they are not unique among local government consultants. I'm confident the consultants who make recommendations for new computer systems, lighting at the county stadium, or roadway designs are similarly influenced by what the IT director, parks director, or transportation director wants the BoC to be told about the project and recommended bid criteria, recognizing that the bid criteria are typically tailored to achieve a specific vendor result.
Dan, I agree that consultants most often write what their customers want to present to those with the checkbooks. However, I have yet to see TUSA recommend anything other than P25. All the reports I have read TUSA talks down any other platform. They made statements of fact about these platforms that simply are not true. If you know of a rural county in Georgia or other where TUSA has recommended a non P25 system, please PM me. I will certainly make an Open Records request for those reports and correct my thoughts and opinions if incorrect.
 

wsp44

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Dan, I agree that consultants most often write what their customers want to present to those with the checkbooks. However, I have yet to see TUSA recommend anything other than P25. All the reports I have read TUSA talks down any other platform. They made statements of fact about these platforms that simply are not true. If you know of a rural county in Georgia or other where TUSA has recommended a non P25 system, please PM me. I will certainly make an Open Records request for those reports and correct my thoughts and opinions if incorrect.
I would love to see those as well, because it would contradict every single recommendation TUSA has ever made in Georgia thus far. They will beat any protocol outside of P25 down.
Floyd, Habersham, Jackson, Douglas, Paulding, Newton, just to name a few, and guess what they all have in common, they all went P25.
 

kb4he

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I would love to see those as well, because it would contradict every single recommendation TUSA has ever made in Georgia thus far. They will beat any protocol outside of P25 down.
Floyd, Habersham, Jackson, Douglas, Paulding, Newton, just to name a few, and guess what they all have in common, they all went P25.
TUSA was contracted by and presented P25 to Stephens, Franklin, McDuffie counties in GA and Pickens SC. Franklin has bought the sell at 7+millon and my understanding McDuffie is waiting on Splost. Thus far Stephens is a no and Pickens rejected their 50+ million P25 bids and went with a 10 million over 10 years UHF NexEdge system.

https://www.franklincountyga.gov/si...ty_ga_-_march_2024_radio_system_project_1.pdf
 

DanRollman

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Dan, I agree that consultants most often write what their customers want to present to those with the checkbooks. However, I have yet to see TUSA recommend anything other than P25. All the reports I have read TUSA talks down any other platform. They made statements of fact about these platforms that simply are not true. If you know of a rural county in Georgia or other where TUSA has recommended a non P25 system, please PM me. I will certainly make an Open Records request for those reports and correct my thoughts and opinions if incorrect.

Ok. I may be mistaken. I thought it was TUSA who years ago recommended Habersham implement their MotoTRBO TRS, given at the time they knew the county wouldn't allocate the funds for P25 and they wanted to move from analog to something. I may be mixing consultants. Who is the consultant that was hired to ruber-stamp the recommendation of all these public safety DMR systems in small counties around the state?
 

lucas2121

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Ok. I may be mistaken. I thought it was TUSA who years ago recommended Habersham implement their MotoTRBO TRS, given at the time they knew the county wouldn't allocate the funds for P25 and they wanted to move from analog to something. I may be mixing consultants. Who is the consultant that was hired to ruber-stamp the recommendation of all these public safety DMR systems in small counties around the state?
No one lol Motorola Solutions themselves. I have seen in a Tusa report where they gave an option of upgrading infrastructure, but it was very vague. As noted above it seems pretty standard that they push whatever the person overseeing the project wants.
 

kb4he

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Ok. I may be mistaken. I thought it was TUSA who years ago recommended Habersham implement their MotoTRBO TRS, given at the time they knew the county wouldn't allocate the funds for P25 and they wanted to move from analog to something. I may be mixing consultants. Who is the consultant that was hired to ruber-stamp the recommendation of all these public safety DMR systems in small counties around the state?
Habersham did not use a consultant in their 2012 system upgrade. Mobile Comm was pushing Mototrbo TRS and they went with it. Habersham contracted with TUSA in 2021 after Jackson county. Since then Stephens, Franklin and McDuffie contracted with TUSA. I'm not aware of any county to which TUSA has recommended a non P25 system in Georgia or any other state.
 
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