KABC Channel 7 NXDN Thread

[LAflyer]

If the Db is inaccurate or incomplete, then how about helping correct it?

The Db information is only as good as RR members help make it.

 

[allend]

If the Db is inaccurate or incomplete, then how about helping correct it?

The Db information is only as good as RR members help make it.

Who are you referring to?

 

[kma371]

Who are you referring to?

You.

You've said the DB is not complete or accurate several times. The only way we can fix it is if people monitor with NXDN capable scanners or DSD and get the info needed.

I prefer DSD. Just need to scan around the 450 band and get the frequencies and LCNs.

 

[LBH]

The only people that have success are scanning all of the channels in conventional mode. If you look back in the posting the frequencies are listed. The KABC-TV NXDN system on RR.com is not completely accurate and is not complete.

No, people that are using SDRs running DSD Plus are successfully following the system. You seem to be having local issues.

Stop blaming the database. It is getting old.

 

[allend]

No, people that are using SDRs running DSD Plus are successfully following the system. You seem to be having local issues.

Stop blaming the database. It is getting old.

This is the first time you have posted to this thread and have never contributed to make things better with this system. Trolling and saying we are having local issues is not solving problem for the rest of us.

So instead of adding a negative comment to this thread add some information and make this thread positive instead of trolling. I am just not sure why you had to chime in and say something that is not helping us?

I created this thread for all of us to help make it easier to finally get all of the frequencies updated. I have spent days and weeks and nights and lots of hours searching the FCC database as well as the DMR and NXDN database.

So if you are a SDR user and say you are following the system properly then add to this thread instead of making comments that has already been addressed.

 

[kma371]

Now that the SDS100 is out, and more people are trying NXDN, has anyone had any success monitoring KABC-TV? I have heard occasional traffic but only when I scan for them in "conventional mode (entering the frequencies in as a CONV group)" and that is still rare...

I get 450.15 and 450.155 RAN5 locking up the carrier with no audio frequently, but have not really been able to hear a conversation or anything worth listening to yet.... but I am eager to!

If it's staying on that frequency, that means it's a control channel. That's what is listed in the DB as. Try to use DSD if possible and that will give it the other known LCNs for that site.

 

[LBH]

This is the first time you have posted to this thread and have never contributed to make things better with this system. Trolling and saying we are having local issues is not solving problem for the rest of us.

So instead of adding a negative comment to this thread add some information and make this thread positive instead of trolling. I am just not sure why you had to chime in and say something that is not helping us?

I created this thread for all of us to help make it easier to finally get all of the frequencies updated. I have spent days and weeks and nights and lots of hours searching the FCC database as well as the DMR and NXDN database.

So if you are a SDR user and say you are following the system properly then add to this thread instead of making comments that has already been addressed.

If you are going to stand on top of the mountain shouting nonsense, someone is going to call you on it.

Yes, this is the first time I've posted to this particular thread. I don't have the time to fix all the errors/help with all the problems in the forums and databases. Most of the time, because of my employment, I can't anyway.

You do not have the knowledge to make the claim that I have never tried to "make things better with this system." Why even go there?

You need to look up the definition of trolling. That is not what is going on here. You are simply being called out for your warrantless statements.

By telling you that you are having local issues, I'm trying to redirect your energy to look at your equipment, and make changes that will work, rather than barking at the moon by blaming the database, which won't solve your problems. I believe that is helping you.

If the point of this thread is to add/correct the frequencies in the database, how will you be able to accomplish that when your scanner doesn't properly track this type of system and perhaps doesn't have a tight enough filter for 4 kHz signals? If you don't have the proper tools, nor the knowledge of how the system works, how much do you really expect to add?

Would you like help? Here you go.

In the first post, your possible frequencies are from two different band plans. Let's talk about band plans since they haven't been mentioned before and perhaps some folks may not know about them. This type of system does not announce frequencies on the control channel, only channel numbers. You must find an active voice frequency and match it up to a voice channel number as shown by the control channel data. This has to be done at the same time to work. As you noticed, the licensing of this system is sparse. You must randomly scan around trying to find these voice channels. The RAN of the voice channel will match up with the site number, so you know the site where the frequency belongs.

The assignment of the channels follows a plan: it can be obvious, or it can be randomly set. Luckily, the band plan for this system follows an easy plan.

Post #7 is from a band plan that is not correct. Post #8 has two different band plans. The site #5 submission is from the same band plan that is not correct.

Why is the site #5 band plan not correct? Channels 22, 25, and 28 are listed. If you do the math, every channel is 6.25 kHz apart. If you follow the numbering down to channel #1, you end up with a frequency of 450.0 MHz. That is an unusable frequency as half the signal (this signal is 4 kHz wide, so 2 kHz) would be out of band below 450 MHz. This misguided band plan would look like this:

1 450.000000
2 450.006250
3 450.012500
4 450.018750
5 450.025000
6 450.031250
7 450.037500
8 450.043750
9 450.050000
10 450.056250
11 450.062500
12 450.068750
13 450.075000
14 450.081250
15 450.087500
16 450.093750
17 450.100000
18 450.106250
19 450.112500
20 450.118750
21 450.125000
22 450.131250
23 450.137500
24 450.143750
25 450.150000
26 450.156250
27 450.162500
28 450.168750
29 450.175000
30 450.181250
31 450.187500
32 450.193750
33 450.200000
34 450.206250
35 450.212500
36 450.218750
37 450.225000
38 450.231250
39 450.237500
40 450.243750
41 450.250000
42 450.256250
43 450.262500
44 450.268750
45 450.275000
46 450.281250
47 450.287500
48 450.293750
49 450.300000
50 450.306250
51 450.312500
52 450.318750
53 450.325000
54 450.331250
55 450.337500
56 450.343750
57 450.350000
58 450.356250
59 450.362500
60 450.368750
61 450.375000
62 450.381250
63 450.387500
64 450.393750
65 450.400000
66 450.406250
67 450.412500
68 450.418750
69 450.425000
70 450.431250

You could start channel #1 with 450.00625, but then the channel numbers wouldn't match the frequencies. So, the other option is starting channel #1 at 450.003125. That would look like this:

1 450.003125
2 450.009375
3 450.015625
4 450.021875
5 450.028125
6 450.034375
7 450.040625
8 450.046875
9 450.053125
10 450.059375
11 450.065625
12 450.071875
13 450.078125
14 450.084375
15 450.090625
16 450.096875
17 450.103125
18 450.109375
19 450.115625
20 450.121875
21 450.128125
22 450.134375
23 450.140625
24 450.146875
25 450.153125
26 450.159375
27 450.165625
28 450.171875
29 450.178125
30 450.184375
31 450.190625
32 450.196875
33 450.203125
34 450.209375
35 450.215625
36 450.221875
37 450.228125
38 450.234375
39 450.240625
40 450.246875
41 450.253125
42 450.259375
43 450.265625
44 450.271875
45 450.278125
46 450.284375
47 450.290625
48 450.296875
49 450.303125
50 450.309375
51 450.315625
52 450.321875
53 450.328125
54 450.334375
55 450.340625
56 450.346875
57 450.353125
58 450.359375
59 450.365625
60 450.371875
61 450.378125
62 450.384375
63 450.390625
64 450.396875
65 450.403125
66 450.409375
67 450.415625
68 450.421875
69 450.428125
70 450.434375

This band plan works perfectly. Anytime a new channel number pops up in the system, checking this table will immediately tell you the frequency. This band plan is the one I've used when I've made submissions for site 1 (Wait, I've helped out?). This must be one of the sites that you say doesn't work correctly.

You might wonder about a weird looking frequency that goes six places to the right of the decimal. You might have point if you didn't know about the practice of taking a 12.5 kHz channel width that may have been used for an 11 kHz wide analog signal and changing out to NXDN transmissions in the same bandwidth by placing one signal 3.125 kHz below and another 3.125 kHz above the center carrier of the original analog signal. This is allowed in Part 90 frequencies between 450 - 470 MHz. This doesn't really apply here as Broadcast Auxiliary is covered under Part 74, which isn't under the narrowbanding mandate, but the point is this type of frequency is not abnormal. See https://www.rrmediagroup.com/News/NewsDetails/newsID/7814

You mistakenly claim I'm not adding anything. What do you propose you are adding when you, in four different posts in this thread, claim that the database has issues? "My scanner is not working correctly on this system" does not directly lead to the database is incorrect. Test your hypothesis before you publish it. If you would like to be taken seriously, ask a question like "I'm not able to make this system work correctly on my new scanner" first.

I would like to apologize to the other users for this post. Most of the time, this would be way over the top. Unfortunately, in this case, I believe it is warranted.

 

[allend]

Sweet. Thanks. Now the real talent shows up to the party. Everybody now can help with this information above and learn about systems like this. Sometimes people in general are not talented in certain areas of this hobby. If people just come together and add their own talents and strengths then we all can learn. This NXDN is newer technology for this hobby and community. It's a whole different beast compared to trunking P25.

Above is great information for us to learn and its just not for me. So jabbing back with digs shows you are taking this too personally and being too sensitive. So I will take the heat for the greater good. I have no problem if it helps all of us out down the road. Plus this information is not for this area with this system. This will be good for the whole RR.com database for the whole nation to learn.

Hopefully you feel better now. It looks like you really took the time with your thoughts and format and outline. The community thanks you.

 

[kma371]

I've said it's important several times to get the LCNs. Guess I'm just not talented enough.

 

[allend]

Thanks. I am going to try working with DSD+ Plus again since I have a radio where I tapped the discriminator tap. I am not a pro at this software but will see what I can do

 

[LZJSR]

By any chance has anyone successfully decoded the KABC7 system yet?

 

[kma371]

By any chance has anyone successfully decoded the KABC7 system yet?

Has anyone actually tried to scan around and get the missing freqs matched up to LCNs? That's the only way is gonna happen.

 

[nanZor]

Found a new one: 450.171875

Heard well up in the Santa Clarita Valley - I'm assuming Site 005? Got it programmed as an NXDN(c) tsys with all the other sites. Nice to see the TG's, radio id's and so forth line up.

Nice work LBH! I put my new toy, a Whistler TRX-1 into an nxdn freq-limit low/hi scan based on your channel layout and bingo - traffic heard.

I'm still getting used to the new scanner, but I'm a little confused - based on your list, I should place this new one manually into the Whistler softare at LCN location 28. (well or anyone using Whistler...) But what if KABC starts to use LCN's larger than 32, which my software only goes to?

UPDATE: LCN doesn't seem to matter on the Whistler at this time as a tsys. Just pop the freqs in. Ok, for now a bit more fun than a conventional scanlist. I'll look into it further. KABC isn't a show-stopper system for me. Thanks to op troymail for that (SK)

Anyway, thought I'd throw back a little something from the new scanner to the group, which just popped up a new freq with LBH's list! Thanks for sharing that and the 3.125 khz tweaking possibility.

 

[allend]

I hear a few new frequencies tonight that is not in the DB. I am not sure what site it belongs to but here it is

I took all of the frequencies above on the posting with all of the frequencies minus the control channels and scan them all.

450.14375
450.15625

 

[kma371]

The RAN will match the site number.

 

[allend]

So I have been scanning these channels below in conventional mode and I have a BCD536HP with NXDN and a Whistler TRX-2 scanning NXDN for this system. When side by side the BCD536HP radio is picking up more conversations than the Whistler TRX-2. It's very noticeable and not sure why at this point. Both radios have zero set as delay and have the most current firmware for both radios have been installed. Thinking the BCD536HP is very sensitive for NXDN and is working better

CH7 450.165625
CH7 455.412500
CH7 450.137500
CH7 450.162500
CH7 455.415000
CH7 450.312500
CH7 450.146875
CH7 450.159375
CH7 450.309375
CH7 450.231250
CH7 455.312500
CH7 450.150000
CH7 450.131250
CH7 450.168750
CH7 450.171875
CH7 450.143750
CH7 450.156250
CH7 450.140625

 

[allend]

Updated Voice Channels which are pretty accurate and the Control Channels


CH7 KABC Voice Channels

CH7 450.143750 RAN 1
CH7 450.140625 RAN 1
CH7 450.137500 RAN 1
CH7 450.162500 RAN 1
CH7 450.312500 RAN 1
CH7 450.159375 RAN 1
CH7 450.309375 RAN 1
CH7 450.168750 RAN 5
CH7 450.171875 RAN 5
CH7 450.146875 RAN 5
CH7 450.231250

CH7 KABC Control Channel's

CH7 450.131250 RAN 1
CH7 450.125000 RAN 1
CH7 450.128125 RAN 1
CH7 450.318750 RAN 3
CH7 450.325000 RAN 3
CH7 450.321825 RAN 3
CH7 450.150000 RAN 5
CH7 450.153125 RAN 5
CH7 450.156250 RAN 5

 

[LZJSR]

Allend:

With your voice and control channel and RAN info, how would you program that into a scanner? I have 436HP but not sure which type of system to program it in as, conventional or NXDN trunked. Program everything in or just some of the channels? Thanks in advance for your help and hard work.

 

[allend]

Well for now what I would do is just program all of the voice channels in a scanlist in conventional mode and put a zero delay so the frequency does not hang for 2 sec.

With all of the voice channels above you should not miss any conversations. Its pretty dialed in so far. As to setting the system up as trunking for NXDN I am not interested in figuring that out. I am pretty happy just spending the last few months trying to find all of the frequencies that are active and be done with it.

Somebody else over a period of time can figure that out. The voice channels with the RAN should match up with the system control channels below. I will just submit to the database for it. But figuring it out is the fun of it and slowly over time more and more information will get this system dialed in better.

With the shooting last night and the coverage today in the area the helios were seriously busy. I hit record all day long and had like 400 to 500 hits to playback tonight. Figured out some more stuff which made it easier since this system is so dead most of the time and the last couple of days has been crazy with the news coverage.