Lakewood, NJ: Kids on 2-Way Radios Interfere With Emergency Calls

[riflemin]

Being that these Chinese radios appear to be competion for the Big Names in Land Mobile I wonder if BigM or others have raised objections with the FCC for allowing them to be imported. But I agree that the Chinese radios have legitimate uses maybe even to save a life - IF used correctly.
But IMHO it wasn't hard to get a radio on a PS freq as far back as 25years ago. Back then I bought a couple crystal controlled Moto Mitreks and a Wilson HT at a city gov't surplus sale. I intended to use them on Ham freqs. To my suprise they were fully functional on their original PS freqs (still in use at the time)! Later I bought a couple synthesized LM radios programed by an array of diodes - no problem reprogramming them. One cost me $25 and I prog'd it for off-duty use in my POV(University Security Dept). Thankfully, the student selling it had no idea what it was. He was part of a group on campus who enjoyed making trouble for us, and would have had great fun transmitting on our freq. Finally, at HamComm I bought an IC-U16 and 2 IC-H16s for under $200 no questions asked, and easily programmed to PS freqs. I used them on-duty for PD interop (authorized), Campus UHF and for ham freqs. Oh, and I have a VX6R and FT8900 both moded by previous owners for OOB tx. I have PS freqs programmed for RX only. To avoid tx on those freqs I set the RPT offset to the max, something like 99mhz, so it gives "ERROR" when the PTT is keyed. I wonder if this method would work on the Chinese radios so you could RX-only on PS freqs?

 

[FoeHammer]

Well blaming the radios is kinds dumb ,... I can tell you I use one of these radio's & ill tell you why ...
First I am a licensed Ham & use it on my local repeaters
I also use it at work on frequencies licensed to our business
& I also use it on Gmrs/Frs frequencies with both family & neighbors
I also monitor several other frequencies within its frequency range
I can't do this with any other radio ,..this radio covers all my needs at an affordable price
I operate this radio legally & lawfully , transmitting only on frequencies I am authorized to do so on...

The radio came unprogrammed ,...it did not program itself ,..someone had to program it , someone who knows exactly what they are doing , any unlawful use of these radios falls on the person who both programs the radio & controls its use , this would be the same if it was an expensive business type radio , a decommissioned police radio , or ham radio , bought at a swap flea market online etc ,..or even a cheap import , its not the radio manufacture at fault , someone came up with a cheaper way to do it,... thats all
you can hate the product for that all you want , but in the end its the actions of people that cause the issues,...

 

[riflemin]

Amen FoeHammer

Amen! (Of course we live in an era when nobody is responsible for their own actions...)

 

[Darth_vader]

"I personally follow the rules out of respect for others. Disrespect towards others is at the root of the problem."

Disrespect for others, both on AND off the air, is another factor in the slow, painful death HAM radio is presently enjoying. The manufactured outrage this has caused is just as retarded as blaming Ford because somebody rearended somebody else with their F350. Yeah, somebody operated where they weren't supposed to. IT HAPPENS. And you know what? We're all still alive, the planet didn't explode, people got married, babies were born...

"I wonder if BigM or others have raised objections with the FCC for allowing them to be imported."

Import/export control is not the F¢¢'s responsibility or within their jurisdiction. All they can do is certify radios for legal operation within their respective services, not determine what people can and can't bring into the U.S. That's another department's job whose name/abbreviation I can't remember (DHS and FTC, I think.)

That, and if it's coming from Canada or Mexico, the Gummit can't do anything to keep them out of the country, under the terms of the N.A.F.T.A.

 

[MTS2000des]

Being that these Chinese radios appear to be competion for the Big Names in Land Mobile I wonder if BigM or others have raised objections with the FCC for allowing them to be imported. But I agree that the Chinese radios have legitimate uses maybe even to save a life - IF used correctly.
But IMHO it wasn't hard to get a radio on a PS freq as far back as 25years ago. Back then I bought a couple crystal controlled Moto Mitreks and a Wilson HT at a city gov't surplus sale. I intended to use them on Ham freqs. To my suprise they were fully functional on their original PS freqs (still in use at the time)! Later I bought a couple synthesized LM radios programed by an array of diodes - no problem reprogramming them. One cost me $25 and I prog'd it for off-duty use in my POV(University Security Dept). Thankfully, the student selling it had no idea what it was. He was part of a group on campus who enjoyed making trouble for us, and would have had great fun transmitting on our freq. Finally, at HamComm I bought an IC-U16 and 2 IC-H16s for under $200 no questions asked, and easily programmed to PS freqs. I used them on-duty for PD interop (authorized), Campus UHF and for ham freqs. Oh, and I have a VX6R and FT8900 both moded by previous owners for OOB tx. I have PS freqs programmed for RX only. To avoid tx on those freqs I set the RPT offset to the max, something like 99mhz, so it gives "ERROR" when the PTT is keyed. I wonder if this method would work on the Chinese radios so you could RX-only on PS freqs?

Motorola and other LMR manufacturers love Baofengs and other cheap crap radios.

You know why? when the users of these systems suffering the interference, jammers and unauthorized cat callers pop on some analog repeater...they get to sell them solutions.

DMR, NXDN and P25 with radio authentication (stops bootleg programming dead cold), encryption (further ensures no one will pop up that isn't supposed to be there, even to listen), crystal clear static free audio, text messaging, fleet management...if you think the folks in Schaumburg are losing sleep, you are sadly mistaken.

Bring on the Baofengs! This will encourage these victims to upgrade their infrastructure and radios to 21st century digital. And with DMR and NXDN, it won't put them out of business.

The problem of this interference and unauthorized users will "work itself out naturally".

http://www.everge.vertexstandard.com/pdf/eVerge_Privacy_Advertising_Vertex%20Standard_Final.pdf

 

[poltergeisty]

Given the fact Baofang's are so hard to program I'm quit astonished that theses kids were able to get on the right frequency and tone out.

 

[MTS2000des]

Given the fact Baofang's are so hard to program I'm quit astonished that theses kids were able to get on the right frequency and tone out.

you'd be surprised how resourceful kids are today.

they are more technology savvy than most of us.

my cousin has two five year old girls that have iPads and can send email.

I imagine the average 12 year old is more than capable of programming a simple conventional radio, especially given the vast information available by directing the browser of their choice to a variety of websites, YouTube instructional videos, and forums such as this.

 

[CaptDan]

These particular radios were purchased at a local flea market by the parents to use with their camper and at campgrounds. The radio's were programed when they purchased them. The kids were playing with them. The people being harassed by the kids were the local "rent a cops" except they were volunteers - the community safety watch. NOT the ambulance squad. That's apparently the facts that were left out of the news story.

* Did the kids know that they were messing with the safety watch - anyone's guess is as good as anyone else's guess

* Apparently someone who previously had these radio's programed in the frequency and PL code for the safety watch, so my guess is they were part of it or authorized to use the radio's on that frequency.

* The person who sold the radio's at the flea market may have had no idea of what they were - to a person not into radios as most of us reading this are - to them it was just a pair of walkie talkies and potential money. It's been suggested elsewhere that the seller may have cleaned out a deceased relative's house and sold anything that might have any value - like these radios.

* So there could have been a few people along the line that could/should have checked a little further to know what the walkie talkies were capable of before selling them and then letting kids play with them.

* The point being - the radio did not talk on a frequency that it is not supposed to, people did that - the radio may have made it easier today than it was 10 years ago for people to transmit on frequencies your are not supposed to - but the bottom line is people did something wrong - don't blame the radio!

 

[WB4CS]

& I also use it on Gmrs/Frs frequencies with both family & neighbors
....................
I operate this radio legally & lawfully , transmitting only on frequencies I am authorized to do so on...

Not to beat this dead horse again, but you don't operate that radio legally. The Baofang radios are Part 90 certified, not Part 95. They're not legal for use on FRS, GMRS, and MURS.

But, enough of that.. plenty of posts on this forum about that subject

 

[riflemin]

Motorola and other LMR manufacturers love Baofengs and other cheap crap radios.

You know why? when the users of these systems suffering the interference, jammers and unauthorized cat callers pop on some analog repeater...they get to sell them solutions.

DMR, NXDN and P25 with radio authentication (stops bootleg programming dead cold), encryption (further ensures no one will pop up that isn't supposed to be there, even to listen), crystal clear static free audio, text messaging, fleet management...if you think the folks in Schaumburg are losing sleep, you are sadly mistaken.

No I don't think they are losing sleep, in fact I'm gussing that they partner with China to manufacture their products. Aside from that,your comment would imply that the Big LMR companies have shifted completely to digital. Considering all the analog in use in my part of the world I doubt that they have given up their share of the analog market.

In spite of all the great features of the digital modes would you have us believe that they are immune to interference from an analog signal on the same channel? Ive asked this same inconvenient question of hams trying to oversell DSTAR (and I have DSTAR radios), and they hem and haw and try to avoid the question. Put two signals together on the same frequency no matter what mode they are and either the strongest signal wins or there is mutual interference. I think this is the achillies heel of digital radio - its all or nothing. Mix in some interference and you get nothing. Speaking from firsthand experience.

 

[N4KVE]

My friend used to modify ham radios to work out of band, & rx 800 cell freq's at the Miami, & Orlando hamfests. He made about $2500 a weekend doing that. Nobody ever bothered him, or said modding these radios was illegal. The promoters knew what he did when he paid them for the table. The radio, or gun isn't dangerous. It's the idiot holding it who causes the trouble.

 

[MTS2000des]

In spite of all the great features of the digital modes would you have us believe that they are immune to interference from an analog signal on the same channel? Ive asked this same inconvenient question of hams trying to oversell DSTAR (and I have DSTAR radios), and they hem and haw and try to avoid the question. Put two signals together on the same frequency no matter what mode they are and either the strongest signal wins or there is mutual interference. I think this is the achillies heel of digital radio - its all or nothing. Mix in some interference and you get nothing. Speaking from firsthand experience.

DMR is no more or less immune from on carrier interference, though the BER has to rise to more than 3 percent to cause unrecoverable voice frames. It certainly is more tolerant to noise, static, momentary loss of signal, Rayliegh fading than analog.

No one is denying that in a narrowband world an on carrier interference source can cause "denial of service" issues. The only way around this are using broadband spread spectrum transmission (like what modern cellular systems use) but they also present their own limitations.

Digital can and certainly does eliminate unauthorized users from intruding on your radio infrastructure if one takes advantage of the inherent security features (Radio Subscriber Authentication and encryption).

Take away their ability to "enter the room", and there isn't much they can do- because they won't even know if their carrier throwing is having an effect in the first place.

 

[Spankymedic7]

All the more reason to upgrade to more modern technology like DMR.

MotoTRBO with advanced privacy and RSA will put and end to the brats and their Baofengs and it would cost them no more than decent analog radios.

Time to upgrade...

Couldn't agree more.

 

[SCPD]

Not to beat this dead horse again, but you don't operate that radio legally. The Baofang radios are Part 90 certified, not Part 95. They're not legal for use on FRS, GMRS, and MURS.

But, enough of that.. plenty of posts on this forum about that subject

Absolutely correct Brandon

 

[SCPD]

Being that these Chinese radios appear to be competion for the Big Names in Land Mobile I wonder if BigM or others have raised objections with the FCC for allowing them to be imported. But I agree that the Chinese radios have legitimate uses maybe even to save a life - IF used correctly.
But IMHO it wasn't hard to get a radio on a PS freq as far back as 25years ago. Back then I bought a couple crystal controlled Moto Mitreks and a Wilson HT at a city gov't surplus sale. I intended to use them on Ham freqs. To my suprise they were fully functional on their original PS freqs (still in use at the time)! Later I bought a couple synthesized LM radios programed by an array of diodes - no problem reprogramming them. One cost me $25 and I prog'd it for off-duty use in my POV(University Security Dept). Thankfully, the student selling it had no idea what it was. He was part of a group on campus who enjoyed making trouble for us, and would have had great fun transmitting on our freq. Finally, at HamComm I bought an IC-U16 and 2 IC-H16s for under $200 no questions asked, and easily programmed to PS freqs. I used them on-duty for PD interop (authorized), Campus UHF and for ham freqs. Oh, and I have a VX6R and FT8900 both moded by previous owners for OOB tx. I have PS freqs programmed for RX only. To avoid tx on those freqs I set the RPT offset to the max, something like 99mhz, so it gives "ERROR" when the PTT is keyed. I wonder if this method would work on the Chinese radios so you could RX-only on PS freqs?

All you have to do with the new China radios is not put in a transmit frequency and you are set all it will do is beep if you try to transmit.