Listen to Encrypted PD possibility?

krw

Member
Feed Provider
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
39
Location
Scarborough, Ontario
Just for giggles, I left the opp intelligence in Toronto on my feed. Every once in a while the are unencrypted and are available to listen to on my listeners
 

tsalmrsystemtech

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Apr 22, 2020
Messages
473
Can you please give us all a link to the source of your information that AES-256 encryption causes a dangerous degradation of a signal?
You have fantasized all over these forums about some mass casualty incident due to encryption, so let's see your proof.

REAL, controllable, repeatable PROOF. Not some "it's well-known.." non-answer.

We'll wait.
Lets just put it this way in very simple terms. It's like trying to put a corn cobb thru a garden hose. It all makes sense when you study AES-25
 

kayn1n32008

ØÆSØ
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
6,702
Location
Sector 001
Lets just put it this way in very simple terms. It's like trying to put a corn cobb thru a garden hose. It all makes sense when you study AES-25
Digital voice(P25, DMR, NXDN), encrypted using AES256, DES-56 or ADP do NOT suffer any range degradation at all. Period. Now back in the day, using DES or DVP on an analogue channel absolutely caused degradation in range.
 

BinaryMode

Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2023
Messages
474
Location
USA
Newport News Police uses ADP encryption on all their channels. There's no work around for it...

On a scale of 1-10, how sure are you about that? :D LOL! Learn about RC4 encryption...

OP, AES256 isn't getting broken anytime soon with modern day computers. Perhaps when quantum computers come out and used in clusters it'll be a significant gain. As it stands now, if someone could break a key or hash that's 2^256 you could own everyone's Bitcoin wallet et al... Already there are so-called pre-quantum encryption schemes used in some VPNs and whatnot.

Here's the key space for AES256: 115792089237316195423570985008687907853269984665640564039457584007913129639936

Ideally, going thorough just half of that will yield the key. But that's still 2^255. Or 57,896,044,618,658,097,711,785,492,504,343,953,926,634,992,332,820,282,019,728,792,003,956,564,819,968 possible keys.

And for the record, Reddit is a hot mess of BS. I like how Google now shows Reddit at the top search results. And worst of all, Reddit does not allow a VPN connection. It's nothing but a public Meta data pile of crap, much like all the other social media out there of which I stay far, FAR away. Read about something called e-Discovery... And soon AI will allow anyone to sift though everything you had said or ever said for years. "It's a brave new world out there, at least it ought to be." - Enemy Of The State.
 
Last edited:

manda1993

My name is Amanda
Joined
Dec 27, 2023
Messages
31
Location
I am all over the place
On a scale of 1-10, how sure are you about that? :D LOL! Learn about RC4 encryption...

OP, AES256 isn't getting broken anytime soon with modern day computers. Perhaps when quantum computers come out and used in clusters it'll be a significant gain. As it stands now, if someone could break a key or hash that's 2^256 you could own everyone's Bitcoin wallet et al... Already there are so-called pre-quantum encryption schemes used in some VPNs and whatnot.

Here's the key space for AES256: 115792089237316195423570985008687907853269984665640564039457584007913129639936

Ideally going thorough just half of that will yield the key. But that's still 2^255. Or 57,896,044,618,658,097,711,785,492,504,343,953,926,634,992,332,820,282,019,728,792,003,956,564,819,968 possible keys.

And for the record, Reddit is a hot mess of BS. I like how Google now shows Reddit at the top search results. And worst of all, Reddit does not allow a VPN connection. It's nothing but a public Meta data pile of crap, much like all the other social media out there of which I stay far, FAR away. Read about something called eDiscovery... And soon AI will allow anyone to sift though everything you had said or ever said for years. "It's a brave new world out there, at least it ought to be." - Enemy Of The State.
I am 100 % positive about ADP but arc4 is the same thing as ADP in Harris wording. Yes never going to happen with AES encryption will never figure it out.
 

LeSueurC

IBEW Local 50
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Nov 6, 2014
Messages
1,254
Location
James City Co, VA
On a scale of 1-10, how sure are you about that? :D LOL! Learn about RC4 encryption...

OP, AES256 isn't getting broken anytime soon with modern day computers. Perhaps when quantum computers come out and used in clusters it'll be a significant gain. As it stands now, if someone could break a key or hash that's 2^256 you could own everyone's Bitcoin wallet et al... Already there are so-called pre-quantum encryption schemes used in some VPNs and whatnot.

Here's the key space for AES256: 115792089237316195423570985008687907853269984665640564039457584007913129639936

Ideally going thorough just half of that will yield the key. But that's still 2^255. Or 57,896,044,618,658,097,711,785,492,504,343,953,926,634,992,332,820,282,019,728,792,003,956,564,819,968 possible keys.

And for the record, Reddit is a hot mess of BS. I like how Google now shows Reddit at the top search results. And worst of all, Reddit does not allow a VPN connection. It's nothing but a public Meta data pile of crap, much like all the other social media out there of which I stay far, FAR away. Read about something called eDiscovery... And soon AI will allow anyone to sift though everything you had said or ever said for years. "It's a brave new world out there, at least it ought to be." - Enemy Of The State.
I’m well aware on a more technical standpoint ADP has work arounds, but in a scanner world it doesn’t. I’m aware AES is a 64 character key. But a lot of PD’s around this area use ADP, with maybe 3-4 using AES
 

BinaryMode

Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2023
Messages
474
Location
USA
Yeah, a lot of departments, er cities go ADP because Motorola charges a fortune for AES256.

Not to steer the conversation off, but in my humble opinion the open DMR should be used with DSS or FHSS using at least 2.5-3 MHz of bandwidth.

Anyway... Companies and greed will destroy us all, and it's happening now. I see that horseman...
 

BinaryMode

Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2023
Messages
474
Location
USA
I've heard through the great vine that to deploy AES256 requires a contract of sorts. Which increases the cost. Why else wouldn't a department go for full on NSA level AES256? I wouldn't use ADP if my life depended on it.... ADP (RC4 encryption) HAS been broken, I read the white paper... It involves using GNU Radio. I also read that there is a version of DSD+ that can decode ADP on the fly which makes sense. But of course they can't release that. Then there was that ol' Russian SDR module...
 

BinaryMode

Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2023
Messages
474
Location
USA
Found the answer. Good Info.


I knew it cost more, just wans't sure how.
 

manda1993

My name is Amanda
Joined
Dec 27, 2023
Messages
31
Location
I am all over the place
Found the answer. Good Info.


I knew it cost more, just wans't sure
Software ADP is free on most radio so there is no extra cost if the feature is in the radio that is
 

kayn1n32008

ØÆSØ
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
6,702
Location
Sector 001
I am 100 % positive about ADP but arc4 is the same thing as ADP in Harris wording. Yes never going to happen with AES encryption will never figure it out.
ADP, and Enhanced Privacy(DMR) is the ARC4 algorithm with a 40 bit keyspace. It is simply called different things by different companies.
 

kayn1n32008

ØÆSØ
Joined
Sep 20, 2008
Messages
6,702
Location
Sector 001
Yeah, a lot of departments, er cities go ADP because Motorola charges a fortune for AES256.
Our province wide trunk system only allows AES256. When a subscriber cost between $2500 and $15k, adding AES is a drop in the bucket, most companies will also volume discount.

Deploying AES is trivial. After CKR/KID and keys are created with in the KMF, the only additional step is to load a UKEK into the subscriber, and push the rekey button.
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
24,375
Location
I am a lineman for the county.
I've heard through the great vine that to deploy AES256 requires a contract of sorts. Which increases the cost. Why else wouldn't a department go for full on NSA level AES256? I wouldn't use ADP if my life depended on it....

None of the federal requirements for purchasing with grant funding, nor using ADP for handling PII/CJI that transits the federal systems permit ADP.

AES256 doesn't require a contract unless you are exporting it out of the country. I purchased a bunch of radios with AES256 last year, and there was no contract that had anything to do with AES256.

I did have some HF radios with AES256 shipped from Australia a few years back, and there was a ton of paperwork regarding rules about what I could and couldn't do with it. There was paperwork I had to sign and send back to the manufacturer.

Found the answer. Good Info.


I knew it cost more, just wans't sure how.

That's old info, 2017.

Harris sells ADP/ARC4 with their radios for $0.01.
AES256 + DES multikey was $550 per radio.
Motorola pricing is similar.

But, don't forget keyloader, and/or all the stuff to allow remote key loading over the trunked systems.
 
Top