Louisville Metrosafe

[ofd8001]

Still kinda early yet, though I think we ought to get moving or at least start thinking about it. (They may have, and I just haven't heard anything).

The RFP needs to be refined, and re-bid. They are looking to get RFP changes done by mid-July, and sent out for re-bid then. With this being a government deal, I wouldn't be too surprised if a delay crops up.

 

[LouisvilleScanMan]

I heard on the news today that the city will start looking for the funding for the final stage of Metrosafe this week.How long before it goes into full operation is anybody's guess.

Oh, are the little cities inside Jefferson county going over to digital/trunked as well? I've heard that J-town fire says thay won't.

 

[ofd8001]

From what I understand, they are talking about 18 months to 2 years after a bid is accepted. So mid to late 2008 is my best guess at this point.

I don't know what the small cities will be doing. It seems to go against the purpose of this system for them to not participate. I suspect the bottom line will be money. If the smaller cities do not have to pay for new radios, I can see no reason why they wouldn't want to go in the new system. Many of the small cities were included in the inventory of radios, and there's a St. Matthews police officer on the radio committee, so they aren't being left out of the loop.

As far as J-town fire goes, the mayor has said MetroSafe will pay for suburban fire department radios, so cost shouldn't be an issue there. J-town's fire chief came from a department who used an 800 system and I get the impression that he is okay with such a system. But around the fire service here, most anything gets said and conflicting information can be heard on a regular basis.

 

[LouisvilleScanMan]

If that's the case then I don't have to worry about saving up the money for a Digital capable scanner any time soon which takes a small load off of my mind.

 

[jerk]

As limited as the system is... I did hear a good signal from I-71 and I-265 on I-71 today. I can't copy the Ford Plant there, but Metro puts out a good signal. I hope they continue to make progress with it. And then perhaps I can hear it at my house.

AL

 

[LouisvilleScanMan]

I know I'll be able to hear the system when it's complete.According to the FCC ULS database there is going to be a repeater location on Cedar Creek rd which is only about 5 miles from my house.If you want to know all the current and planned repeater locations go to the FCC website.

 

[ofd8001]

As far as I know, only 3 sites are current active. One at Waverly Hills, one at I-64 and Hurstborne Lane and the other on top of Meidinger Tower.

I don't know where on Cedar Creek you live, but I can hit the system with one of their portable radios when I'm at the fire training center on Cedar Creek (thought I gotta stick the antenna way up in the air).

 

[psol113]

trunktracker scanner's

HI uesd to live in caroll co. ky and boy have thing's changed in the bluegrass was traveling though ky last week through post 1 area uesing a bearcat bc-796d, and i had a real hard time hearing the ksp unit's have the right frec's but it didn't want to lock up on them and had to adjust the A,P,C,O, 25 sound quality many time's. do i need to just disable the A,P,C,O, card ?

 

[LouisvilleScanMan]

I don't live on Cedar Creek rd but I do live near it and according to the FCC database there is a transmitter site on Cedar Creek rd or at least the city has a license for one. Here is the listing from the FCC ULS database.



Call Sign WQDI354 Radio Service YF - Public Safety Ntl Plan, 821-824/866-869 MHz, Trunked
13 Total Locations
10 Locations per Summary Page
Locations Displayed:
All | Fixed | Mobile | Itinerant | Temp Fixed | 6.1m
1 2 [Next >>]


= Special Condition = Termination Pending
Location Transmitter Address /Area of Operation Latitude, Longitude Status
1 - Fixed 472 M ARNOLD TOWN ROAD
LOUISVILLE, KY JEFFERSON County 38-08-01.5 N, 085-49-22.8 W
P
2 - Fixed 3419 BOHN AVENUE
LOUISVILLE, KY JEFFERSON County 38-13-44.2 N, 085-48-46.8 W
P
3 - Fixed 8120 CEDAR CREEK ROAD
LOUISVILLE, KY JEFFERSON County 38-07-38.0 N, 085-35-35.0 W
P
4 - Fixed 4TH AVENUE GALLERIA
LOUISVILLE, KY JEFFERSON County 38-15-09.2 N, 085-45-37.8 W
P
5 - Fixed 815 UTICA/CHARLESTOWN ROAD
UTICA, IN CLARK County 38-20-35.4 N, 085-39-09.3 W
P
6 - Fixed 9901 LINN STATION ROAD
LOUISVILLE, KY JEFFERSON County 38-13-27.2 N, 085-34-32.8 W
P
7 - Mobile 16.0 km radius around a fixed location 1
8 - Mobile 16.0 km radius around a fixed location 2
9 - Mobile 16.0 km radius around a fixed location 3
10 - Mobile 16.0 km radius around a fixed location 4

 

[LouisvilleScanMan]

I just copied this from the RR database and thought I should post it here in case no one has seen it yet.

Latest News Update Posted on 2006-07-20 08:37:38

Some information from a recent document dated 7/12/06 filed with the FCC:


"Our plan is to design a 30 to 35 channel 10 to 15 site 800/700 P25 Trunking radio infrastructure. This system would encompass up to 535 base stations. In order for us to put all public safety, local government, public works and small towns, would require up to 5,000 subscribers. We will also be using VoIP gateway technology to communicate with legacy UHF, VHF, 800MHz conventional radio systems from agencies using conventional analog infrastructures. The dispatch center will be state of the art display driven consoles with touch screen. We also have plans to build out a 4.9GHz broadband infrastructure possibly using Mesh technology. The radio system will also be capable of being firmware flashed to 700MHz when this band becomes available in the Metro Louisville area. Obviously there are many unknowns, and funding concerns."




Misc System Information


Previous Implementation Schedule

Submit RFP February 2006



Vendor response to RFP March 2006



Pre-Bid conference March 2006



Bid reply April 2006



Rejected May 2006



New Implementation Schedule


Submit RFP July 2006



Vendor response to RFP September 2006



Pre-Bid conference October 2006



Bid reply November 2006



Construction begin December 2006



Projected Completion July 2008











Current Known Site Locations


SITE#1 472 M ARNOLD TOWN ROAD

SITE#2 3419 BOHN AVENUE

SITE#3 8120 CEDER CREEK ROAD

SITE#4 4TH AVENUE GALLERIA

SITE#5 815 UTICA / CHARLSTOWN ROAD

SITE#6 9901 LINN STATION ROAD

 

[mastr]

oops...

...Louisville Metro Government rejected the $59 million bid and last week officially restarted the bidding process for the third phase, which will include building radio towers and installing equipment in the city's primary dispatch center...




http://www.courier-journal.com/apps...0806/NEWS01/608060406&SearchID=73253075329822

 

[LouisvilleScanMan]

MY GOD!!! Just how much are they willing to pay for this system? Just this week I saw on the news that the city already had over $60 million for Metrosafe.What is the freakin' holdup?

 

[ofd8001]

Well, there are a couple of things to point out. The voice radio system is only one (1) part of the MetroSafe "thing". Other parts draining down the MetroSafe money are phase 1, which was the MotoBridge. Another part is converting the old Federal Reserve Building into the primary dispatch center. Another part was joining all the major comm centers at one location which will end up being the back-up center.

So a big bite has already been taken out of the MetroSafe money, even before we get to the biggest part - the voice radio system. Plus the rejected bid was only for the infastructure - towers, transmitters, controllers, microwave links, receivers and so on. There bottom line didn't include mobile, base or portable radios. Those will be a big hunk of money.

So much for defending the MetroSafe "higher-ups". Personally I feel that we are farther behind the time line than we should be. There's been too many false starts, too many people have to be pleased (and I admit I'm one of those who wants to be pleased, so I guess my fingerprints are on the knife was well). Also there has been too much bureaucracy and a general slow pace. I'm sure that this is one of the biggest projects Metro government has undertaken from both a cost and impact perspective, and some of the above is valid, but not as much as there has been. I will say however, I'm not the most patient guy in the world and I would have liked to see this done the day after it began.

 

[LouisvilleScanMan]

At this pace the Ohio River bridges project will be done before Metrosafe!!!

 

[kyparamedic]

Ok, got a bunch of questions, probably only jcpd or OFD can answer.

How are 911 calls routed now? Do all go to Metrosafe, regardless of location or type (mobile or landline)? As I understand it, everyone is now in the same dispatch center now, LFR, LMPD, LMEMS, correct? Does LFR still dispatch EMS in the urban district? Are calls still transferred to different dispatchers for police/fire/ems or are they entered into the new CAD and then each dispatcher sees it and dispatches the appropriate units? What about calls that involve local PD such as J-Town, St. Matthews, Anchorage, etc. Plus R/M for EMS in J-Town? It seems like it would be best if every agency could be on the same system (both radio and CAD) as I've seen firsthand how the handoff of calls can result in death (IE: a couple years ago there was a case where a lady had taken out an EPO on her boyfriend. He started breaking into her house so she called her father who worked downtown. He dialed 911 and after about 3 or 4 handoffs, it got to JTPD. Their station was only 2 blocks from the shooting but by the time they got the call, the boyfriend had already killed her and himself. I was working for R/M at the time and all we were told was that it was a domestic dispute. Imagine our surprise when we got there. Of course, if she had dialed 911 from the very beginning, it may have shortened the time drastically.) I can cite many other instances of extreme delays from calls being bounced around or receiving a call from JTPD of a 10-50 then getting it from county 1-5 mins. later, if at all. Sometimes JCEMS would be going but JTPD was given the call.

In the past did any 911 calls get routed directly to local PD's? I was told by a JTPD dispatcher once that some 911 calls in J-Town went straight to the PD but a county dispatcher said all calls in the county went to the county dispatch center. When these calls are transferred, is all the ANI/ALI info transferred as well? It always seemed like the county dispatch center could never figure out who's district calls were in. In Prospect, all the signs say FIRE/AMBULANCE call 911, POLICE call 228-COPS (I know of an instance where someone's house was being broken into and the resident called 911, and waited 20 mins. for the old JCPD to arrive code 3, all the while Prospect Police had no idea. Luckily nobody was hurt). When I was at R/M, it seemed that the county call-takers always had a hard-time figuring out when the call was in J-Town and many times it wasn't until the card was given to the EMS dispatcher that it was realized it was in J-Town and would call the info over, sometimes resulting in a 5 min. or more delay.

Sorry for all the questions!

 

[ofd8001]

I'd defer to JCPD or KF4KTJ because they work at MetroSafe and can tell you what I can only guess at.

So until they see this, I'll give it my best guess. I believe that all 911 calls go directly to MetroSafe. When the 911 call is answered, caller information (name, address, phone number) is displayed, along with what's called an "ESN" (Emergency Services Number). That number, presuming everything has been loaded correctly, will give the police, fire and EMS jurisdiction.

All fire urban, suburban and Shively are dispatched through MetroSafe. All EMS but Rural Metro is dispatched by MetroSafe. Only LMPD is dispatched by MetroSafe. The other small cities either have their own PSAP, or are dispatched by the sheriff's office.

Owing to what the emergency is, and where it is, the MetroSafe call takers will forward the 911 call with all the information to appropriate PSAP. So if it's a burglary in progress in Prospect, they should send the call to the sheriff's office who does Prospect's dispatching. But if the burglary is in Anchorage, then the 911 call goes to Anchorage, who does their own dispatching (as does Shively, St. Matthews and J-town off the top of my head).

If it happens to be one of these hybrid calls, an injury accident in Shively for example, then I'm guessing the MetroSafe call taker gets the information entered into the CAD that will be needed to dispatch Shively fire and metro EMS, and then forward the call to Shively PD.

All of the agencies dispatched by MetroSafe are using the same CAD, and have been since June. However, that's as far as that CAD goes. The other dispatching agencies do their own thing, I think (but could be wrong, as I wasn't in on the CAD stuff like I am the radio stuff).

While that system may be far from optimal, it's a whole lot closer than it was before. In the git-go years ago, you dialed 911. You had to tell them whether you were city or county and where the problem was. Then the call got handed off. It was subject to further handing off if the call didn't go to the right place.

I don't think in the circumstance of the small cities it's entirely too bad that the calls go to MetroSafe and then get handed off to the small cities' dispatcher. Given the size of the small cities, their cops got less ground to cover to get to the emergency, so any time lost because of transfer is saved by that short travel distance.

Granted, that's not as good as it could be. However, politics is life and there's going to be the argument of all dispatching in one place is more efficient versus "with our own dispatchers we get better service." There's good points to both sides, and since there's no definitive way of saying which is best, they may well be the two different approaches.

All the above pertains to 911 calls. The seven digit phone numbers like the 228-cops you mentioned are a whole new ball game. They ring in at the police dispatching point (as in the sheriff's office for Prospect and a number of other small cities, and Anchorage et al for those having their own dispatchers). If it's a multi-disciplinary run, such as the injury accident with a rescue, things go in reverse. The cops get the call first, then their dispatchers call MetroSafe to get EMS and fire going.

But like I said, B or D can tell you for sure how it goes - they know the system (actually they are probably about the two sharpest dispatchers they got down there - if I had to pick my all star big ugly nasty incident team, I'd want them at the other end of the radio).

I've sent an e-mail to one of them asking that he check this out and say for sure.

 

[BigDog-911]

I'd defer to JCPD or KF4KTJ because they work at MetroSafe and can tell you what I can only guess at.

So until they see this, I'll give it my best guess. I believe that all 911 calls go directly to MetroSafe. When the 911 call is answered, caller information (name, address, phone number) is displayed, along with what's called an "ESN" (Emergency Services Number). That number, presuming everything has been loaded correctly, will give the police, fire and EMS jurisdiction. ----You are correct, all 911 calls for any agency within Louisville Metro go to MetroSafe.

All fire urban, suburban and Shively are dispatched through MetroSafe. All EMS but Rural Metro is dispatched by MetroSafe. Only LMPD is dispatched by MetroSafe. The other small cities either have their own PSAP, or are dispatched by the sheriff's office.----Also correct.

Owing to what the emergency is, and where it is, the MetroSafe call takers will forward the 911 call with all the information to appropriate PSAP. So if it's a burglary in progress in Prospect, they should send the call to the sheriff's office who does Prospect's dispatching. But if the burglary is in Anchorage, then the 911 call goes to Anchorage, who does their own dispatching (as does Shively, St. Matthews and J-town off the top of my head).-----This information is also correct.

If it happens to be one of these hybrid calls, an injury accident in Shively for example, then I'm guessing the MetroSafe call taker gets the information entered into the CAD that will be needed to dispatch Shively fire and metro EMS, and then forward the call to Shively PD.----Not all the time is the caller transferred to the other Police agency but the information is relayed after entering the information into CAD for Fire and EMS to respond. Although not the most practical application of information sharing, the caller doesn't always want to stay on the phone while we ask them the medical questions and then be transferred to another agency.

All of the agencies dispatched by MetroSafe are using the same CAD, and have been since June. However, that's as far as that CAD goes. The other dispatching agencies do their own thing, I think (but could be wrong, as I wasn't in on the CAD stuff like I am the radio stuff).--Most of the other agencies are still using the former 911 CAD system purchased from Positron.

While that system may be far from optimal, it's a whole lot closer than it was before. In the git-go years ago, you dialed 911. You had to tell them whether you were city or county and where the problem was. Then the call got handed off. It was subject to further handing off if the call didn't go to the right place.----Correct

I don't think in the circumstance of the small cities it's entirely too bad that the calls go to MetroSafe and then get handed off to the small cities' dispatcher. Given the size of the small cities, their cops got less ground to cover to get to the emergency, so any time lost because of transfer is saved by that short travel distance.---I have worked for a smaller agency and preferred having someone else field the 911 calls and calling with the information, especially when I was there by myself and 4 phone lines ringing off the hook.

Granted, that's not as good as it could be. However, politics is life and there's going to be the argument of all dispatching in one place is more efficient versus "with our own dispatchers we get better service." There's good points to both sides, and since there's no definitive way of saying which is best, they may well be the two different approaches.

All the above pertains to 911 calls. The seven digit phone numbers like the 228-cops you mentioned are a whole new ball game. They ring in at the police dispatching point (as in the sheriff's office for Prospect and a number of other small cities, and Anchorage et al for those having their own dispatchers). If it's a multi-disciplinary run, such as the injury accident with a rescue, things go in reverse. The cops get the call first, then their dispatchers call MetroSafe to get EMS and fire going.---Then some of the fire departments or EMS personnel get upset as to why the police got the call at 0028 and Fire and EMS got the call at 0032. It had to be MetroSafe Dispatcher error....No other possible explanation

But like I said, B or D can tell you for sure how it goes - they know the system (actually they are probably about the two sharpest dispatchers they got down there - if I had to pick my all star big ugly nasty incident team, I'd want them at the other end of the radio). I am not sure if I am one of the ones mentioned above, but if I am thanks...if I am not...I will evidentially get over it...may require KCCRT intervention...LOL...



I've sent an e-mail to one of them asking that he check this out and say for sure.

Hope this comes out ok....read information after Chiefs comments....

 

[ofd8001]

"Then some of the fire departments or EMS personnel get upset as to why the police got the call at 0028 and Fire and EMS got the call at 0032. It had to be MetroSafe Dispatcher error....No other possible explanation."

Remember that it's SOME of the fire departments. There are those of us who know how the system works and there are some good reasons why things don't always go the way we think they ought to. The vast majority of time, it's beyond the control of the dispatchers.

Yep, unless you ain't D no more, that's you I was talking about. I e-mailed the B (though that's his FD name, and I'm sure he uses L at work).

 

[BigDog-911]

Remember that it's SOME of the fire departments. There are those of us who know how the system works and there are some good reasons why things don't always go the way we think they ought to. The vast majority of time, it's beyond the control of the dispatchers.

Without a doubt most of the complaints come from east of Bardstown Rd. I don't think in my 11 yrs I have ever heard a complaint come from you or your staff. A question for clarification, sure, but never a complaint. There are a few departments that are great to work with, and I can count them on one hand.

I think that the bubmeister is on vacation this week in the fine metropolis of Branson Mo. Why, I have no clue...LOL...

I guess I can cancel my call to Renelle!!!

Have a good one....

D

 

[jcpd9720]

WOW!! That almost started looking like the EMS proboards site!

Chief, you are pretty much 100% on every answer you had. Especially about wanting B or D on the other end of the radio waves! I know that I would want D on the other end if the defecation made contact with the rotary oscillator. I am sure he feels the same way.

I will go through the entire process for anyone who needs a re-cap:

You dial 911 (whether it is a land-line or cellular telephone), a MetroSafe calltaker answers the phone. If you are on a land-line, they get the phone number, registered name, address, and police/fire/ems agencies that respond. If the call is for any police agency other than LMPD, it gets transferred the the appropriate call center. If it is a need for ems in Jeffersontown it gets transferred to Rural Metro EMS. If it is a fire, It needn't get transferred at all. If the call is not to be transferred, the call-taker starts the interrogation process, verifying the address and phone number that you are calling from. All applicable information is entered into the Intergraph C.A.D. Once the event is accepted with the appropriate call-type, it goes to the dispatcher for the area. If it is a police run in LMPD, there are 4 dispatch channels that handle it. Urban channel one (1st and 2nd divisions), Urban channel two (4th and 5th divisions), Suburban F1 (6th and 7th divisions), and Suburban F2 (3rd and 8th divisions). The former city and county dispatchers 'man' those channels. They even work across the borders, i.e. a county person can be on a city channel, or vice versa. If it is an EMS run in LMEMS' area, there are 2 dispatch channels that handle it. If in the urban service district, a LFD dispatcher works it on Med 9. If in the suburban service district, a County dispatcher works it on Med 10. If it is a fire run in Shively or LFD's area, a LFD dispatcher dispatches the run on City Fire 4, then works it on City Fire 1. There are 18 'County' fire districts, 9 of which work off Fire 1, 5 on Fire 2, and 4 on Fire 3. They are all dispatched on the Dispatch (154.445) channel, then they work off their respective channel.

There is yet to be any intermingling of dispatchers between LFD and MetroSafe.