Major disaster comms options

[AK_SAR]

....... I'm in the Los Angeles Metro area and I'd fall back to my VHF/UHF/HF ham radio if I lost my phone for any length of time. Thinking back to the 1994 Northridge Earthquake, as soon as the shaking stopped I turned on my handheld radio and started listening to reports from all over the county. .........

Based on personal experience, in a disaster situation I'd be very skeptical of info provided over the amateur radio service. In 2018 we had a M 7.1 earthquake just north of Anchorage. I immediately turned on my VHF radio on one of our local repeaters with the best area wide coverage, where an ad hoc net had started. What I heard ranged from very incomplete, to very misleading, to flat out wrong.

Starting with the incomplete, someone stated that "Vine Rd is blocked!" To his credit, whomever was acting as the net control, tried to get more useful information, such as exactly where Vine Rd was blocked (it's a fairly long road). The reply was "I don't know, I just heard it from a friend". Vine Rd was in fact blocked by one slump, but only locally, in one spot. This was one of the images that you all saw ad nauseum on the media.

Moving to very misleading, someone reported that "the overpass on Minnesota Dr has collapsed and a car is trapped!" That suggests that an overpass had fallen on a car and some poor shmuck was crushed underneath. Also, Minnesota Dr is rather long, with several overpasses. The reality was that the on ramp to an overpass had slumped slightly, and a car was trapped but not damaged. If I remember correctly, the back story was that a guy was driving a rental car back to the airport. He left the trapped but undamaged car, walked to the airport, gave the rental company the keys and told them where it was, and made his flight. (This was another image that was broadcast incessantly in media coverage.)

Finally, there was the flat out wrong, total BS claim. Someone came up on the net and said "I just talked to my daughter, and she heard that they say there will be another, even bigger quake within the hour!" Totally wrong! This was probably a corruption of the USGS standard notice that there will almost certainly be aftershocks which follow a pattern, with some of those aftershocks quite strong. And there is a very tiny but finite chance that the quake was a foreshock to a bigger one.

Takeaways:
1. Be very skeptical of anything you hear over impromptu ham radio nets regarding disaster situations. Most hams are not trained observers and frequently have no idea what they are talking about.
2. If you provide information on any net during a disaster, be VERY careful about what you report. For example, saying this or that road is blocked is pretty useless unless you can give a good location and details. Incomplete information is sometimes worse than no information at all.
3. Absolutely DO NOT PASS ON RUMORS! No matter how juicy they sound!

 

[mmckenna]

IOW, after you work out the plan, see how communications fits into the plan. Use communications as a tool to implement your plan. Don't build a plan around a certain type of communications. I think that too many radio hobbyists see radio as an end to a means when they may be better off considering it as a means to an end.

This should be printed on heavy stock paper and glued to the back of every single Baofeng radio, amateur radio and GMRS radio that is sold in the country.

A radio is a tool. It is one tool. People need to have other tools in their tool box. Relying on hobbyists/amateurs/or assuming that they'll be granted access to public safety systems is NOT preparing for an emergency.

Emergency preparedness does not come in a box from Amazon.

 

[mmckenna]

Based on personal experience, in a disaster situation I'd be very skeptical of info provided over the amateur radio service. In 2018 we had a M 7.1 earthquake just north of Anchorage. I immediately turned on my VHF radio on one of our local repeaters with the best area wide coverage, where an ad hoc net had started. What I heard ranged from very incomplete, to very misleading, to flat out wrong.

I lived in the San Francisco Bay Area during the 1989 earthquake and discovered the same thing. Amateur radio was generally useless for any sort of accurate information. Too many were hyped up on adrenaline and it wasn't helpful.
The nets that got set up were too stuck on their scripts to be helpful. By the time things settled down, the professional first responders had things sorted out and the news media had accurate information.

 

[ladn]

Emergency preparedness does not come in a box from Amazon.

But the orange/green safety vest does!
(sorry--couldn't resist)

 

[ish675]

Let's not forget that during an EMP, small electronics like cell phones and radios will most likely not be affected unless you're directly under the blast, or currently connected to the grid, in which case you probably have much bigger problems to worry about the radio not working. An EMP could be disastrous for things tied to a grid, including battery chargers, and higher power radios.

"Effects on communications infrastructure
Communications and other electronic equipment brought in from unaffected areas should function normally if communications towers and repeaters in the infrastructure remain functioning.
Cell phones and handheld radios have relatively small antennas, and if they are not connected to electrical power supplies during the electromagnetic pulse (EMP) they may not be affected, but they do rely on an intact infrastructure for communication"

Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Following a Nuclear Detonation - Radiation Emergency Medical Management

Obviously larger radios with large antennas would have much bigger problems, although unless you're relatively close to the blast, it would probably be fixable with a few simple parts. The simple solution would be to put an older radio into a metal box, wrap it in foil, and remove all the antenna.

 

[mmckenna]

But the orange/green safety vest does!
(sorry--couldn't resist)

Yep, plus 3 Baofengs, the long military style LARP'ing tape antenna, mag mount antenna, and an orange blinky light for your "POV"

 

[K6GBW]

Sigh...I don't know why I bother.

 

[mmckenna]

Sigh...I don't know why I bother.

I think it really depends on the discipline of the individual amateur radio operators. If you have a good bunch of hams around you that understand the importance of sharing only accurate/confirmed information, then that's a good thing. I've had mixed results with amateurs, unfortunately it's been mostly negative. As a ham myself, I find this frustrating. Amateur radio has the opportunity to be a good tool, but unfortunately it's entirely up to the individuals to make it work. Not everyone is up to the challenge.

I do think it is important that those thinking of getting their ham license understand that it is not an emergency radio service, and while it can be helpful, it is 100% volunteer and there is no requirement that anyone respond or assist.

Unfortunately, the ARRL and others have marketed amateur radio as an emergency radio service, all while ignoring the realities. I think that has done a lot of damage to the hobby. It's nice that they increased the number of licensed amateurs, but I think a lot of that was done because of poor marketing and setting up a false sense of reality.

Amateur radio -can- be useful, but new hams need to understand that it's not a replacement for real first responders, and it's nothing more than a simple communications tool.

 

[AK_SAR]

I think it really depends on the discipline of the individual amateur radio operators. If you have a good bunch of hams around you that understand the importance of sharing only accurate/confirmed information, then that's a good thing.
----------------snip--------
Amateur radio -can- be useful, but new hams need to understand that it's not a replacement for real first responders, and it's nothing more than a simple communications tool.

Yes to this. In some areas organized groups of hams are reasonably well integrated into the official emergency response framework. This means these folks require their members to do some formal training and practice together on a regular basis. The great thing about requiring some sort of mandatory training is that it quickly weeds out the posers and wannabees. The guy who thinks that just because he's a "know code" Extra, and that's all he needs to know isn't who you want to be getting your info from. But an organized net, that has trained and practiced together before the SHTF could certainly be helpful in an emergency. Likewise using ham radio, FRS, or GMRS to exchange an "I'm OK, are you OK?" message with family, friends, and neighbors during a disaster makes perfect sense.

"People don't rise to the occasion. They default to their training."
This quote has been attributed to Rick Rescorla, the soldier-turned-corporate-security officer who is credited with saving the lives of all but six of the 2,700 Morgan Stanley employees in the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001. Other firms that hadn't conducted the disaster drills Morgan Stanley had, lost scores of employees in the terrorist attacks. After evacuating his Morgan Stanley people, Rescorla was last seen heading back into the building to help others get out.

 

[mmckenna]

But an organized net, that has trained and practiced together before the SHTF could certainly be helpful in an emergency.

I agree.

I see a lot of posts on this site from those that cram for the license test, run out and buy a baofeng, and call it done.

 

[K6GBW]

I get tired of replying to posts with sound and resonable advise only to inevitably have "that guy" that has to post something contrary simple to be contrary. I've been in the military, public safety and radio for over forty years. If people don't want to listen fine. I think I'm probably not going to be post much anymore.

 

[mmckenna]

Well, my apologies if it was something I said. I know your background (at least part of it) and I think you bring a valuable point of view to these discussions.

 

[belvdr]

I get tired of replying to posts with sound and resonable advise only to inevitably have "that guy" that has to post something contrary simple to be contrary. I've been in the military, public safety and radio for over forty years. If people don't want to listen fine. I think I'm probably not going to be post much anymore.

I don’t understand your post. Who isn’t listening?

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

I think what you choose for emergency communicatons really depends on your environment. While everyone should have some sort of AM/FM radio for receiving news the rest can change depending on if you are in a big city, or a small rural town. I'm in the Los Angeles Metro area and I'd fall back to my VHF/UHF/HF ham radio if I lost my phone for any length of time. Thinking back to the 1994 Northridge Earthquake, as soon as the shaking stopped I turned on my handheld radio and started listening to reports from all over the county. My location wasn't affected very badly and I had no idea the quake was as bad as it was until I heard the reports of fires and collapses coming in. I'd also leverage GMRS for neighbors. If I lived in a place like Montanna, where it's small farms every half mile or so, then something like a base CB so that local homes and farms can reach each other during the snow storms might be a better choice. If I really lived off-grid I'd probably have a satellite phone. Everyone needs to do a real, no BS assesment of their needs and act accordingly.

In my case, my family rely on cellular for everything and they have a weak understanding of the fragility of the network.

Including the many hurricanes, we are in a suburban area where normal traffic unfortunately has become gridlock at times of day. It does not take much of a crash, to take out a major road and the electrical power at same time. Our power and internet outages almost all result from a pole being hit by a vehicle. Just like a hurricane event, a normal 20 minute drive home could turn into an ordeal. So the utility of GMRS even simplex mobile range, is great.

 

[ladn]

Yep, plus 3 Baofengs, the long military style LARP'ing tape antenna, mag mount antenna, and an orange blinky light for your "POV"

And the 8-cell MagLite with leather basket weave belt and carrier!

 

[krokus]

I get tired of replying to posts with sound and resonable advise only to inevitably have "that guy" that has to post something contrary simple to be contrary. I've been in the military, public safety and radio for over forty years. If people don't want to listen fine. I think I'm probably not going to be post much anymore.

I'm sure you know this, but just in case: The posts might get one person to start a plan, or make a better plan. They might not acknowledge it at first, but the seed was hopefully planted.

I started this thread wanting discussion based on various experiences, especially since there is a vast array of combinations types, scopes, terrain affects, and other variables. As an example: in mountainous areas, mountain top repeaters can give wide area coverage, and often have off-grid power sources. It is very different in flatter areas, especially away from cities with tall buildings. Even then, those repeaters are probably not going to be useful for getting messages to outside of the affected area. This would be for trying to get help, during early stages, or H&W traffic, in later stages.

Something that popped into my head, while reading some of comments from @mmckenna is that some people confuse ham radio being potentially useful in an emergency with ham radio being an emergency service.

 

[krokus]

Emergency preparedness does not come in a box from Amazon.

That should be included on the card.

 

[jwt873]

There hasn't been much on this, but Starlink is rolling out a "Direct to Cell" network that is supposed to be operational by 2025. The new satellites in the constellation will essentially be 'mini cell towers' that can communicate directly with basic LTE cell phones on the ground..

Starlink plans satellite cellular voice, data and IoT services, starting in 2025 - RCR Wireless News

All you'll need to use the system is a subscription to the service, a cell phone, and a clear view of the sky.

This will make emergency comms a fairly trivial thing.

 

[AK9R]

Can you fit a Starlink dish, the dish support, the router, and the power supply in a backpack?

 

[jwt873]

Can you fit a Starlink dish, the dish support, the router, and the power supply in a backpack?

You don't need any of that stuff... This is direct cellular phone to satellite service. In 2025, any Apple or Android 5G phone will be satellite ready 'out of the box'.

Actually, T-Mobile has partnered with Starlink's Direct to Cell network. The plan is to share the same 5G frequencies. So if you're near a T-Mobile terrestrial tower you use the tower. If not, you use the satellites. This gives T-Mobile pretty well full coverage of the US.

T-Mobile Takes Coverage Above and Beyond With SpaceX - T-Mobile Newsroom

In a live event today, T-Mobile and SpaceX announced Coverage Above and Beyond: a breakthrough new plan to bring cell phone connectivity nearly everywhere.

www.t-mobile.com