mmckenna
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If it's not smacking you in the shins, it's not long enough!
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If it's not smacking you in the shins, it's not long enough!
ish675
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I wonder if a high altitude EMP blast would have an effect on satellite communications as well?
wenzeslaus
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EMP nominal altitude is around 100,000 ft. that is called "high altitude" but refers to atmospheric detonations. the first testing was also called "high altitude" and around 1,000,000 feet. the effects on satellites were so severe and it left a belt of radiation in orbit, that was one of the reasons for the Limited Test Ban Treaty in 1963. as you can imagine we have a lot more satellites and a lot more sensitive that in 1963.
EMP weapons will damage or destroy many satellites and temporarily disrupt communications due to saturation of the ionosphere, but they could really make things FUBAR if they wanted to by detonating an EMP within satellite orbit.
EMP weapons will damage or destroy many satellites and temporarily disrupt communications due to saturation of the ionosphere, but they could really make things FUBAR if they wanted to by detonating an EMP within satellite orbit.
My 2 cents
I'm not positive, but I think EMP is from the gamma rays interactions with the atmosphere.
I'm not denying other effects on satellites at higher altitudes though.
Thanks
Joel
wenzeslaus
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there are 3 effects.
E1 is when the gamma rays knock electrons off molecules, causing electric charge. thin air in the upper atmosphere isn't affected much so the gamma rays make it to the ground where they have a lot more effect.
E2 is when E1 effects in the upper atmosphere are attracted to the lower atmosphere. similar to lightning but weaker.
E3 is when the detonation blows apart the magnetosphere then it slams shut, causing a huge electric impulse. very powerful, long wavelength, only long conductors such as power lines pick it up. and then everything connected to the power grid gets fried, including all the transformers , switches, insulators, and big heavy expensive main transformers which take years to replace. so everything plugged in gets fried a microsecond before the power grid itself gets trashed.
E3 is much more powerful than E1 so that's why they detonate an EMP at the altitude they do. otherwise they would detonate it a lot closer to the ground so E1 would be much stronger.
E1 is when the gamma rays knock electrons off molecules, causing electric charge. thin air in the upper atmosphere isn't affected much so the gamma rays make it to the ground where they have a lot more effect.
E2 is when E1 effects in the upper atmosphere are attracted to the lower atmosphere. similar to lightning but weaker.
E3 is when the detonation blows apart the magnetosphere then it slams shut, causing a huge electric impulse. very powerful, long wavelength, only long conductors such as power lines pick it up. and then everything connected to the power grid gets fried, including all the transformers , switches, insulators, and big heavy expensive main transformers which take years to replace. so everything plugged in gets fried a microsecond before the power grid itself gets trashed.
E3 is much more powerful than E1 so that's why they detonate an EMP at the altitude they do. otherwise they would detonate it a lot closer to the ground so E1 would be much stronger.
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I figured Lauri would be all over this topic, especially the EMP aspects. Did I miss her departure from the forums?
An EMP might knock out a group of Starlink Satellites, but there are a heck of a lot of them in orbit. (There are about 5000 in the constellation). Many of the birds would be on the other side of the earth when a detonation occurred.
An EMP would degrade the system, but I imagine it would be able to continue with limited capability.
An EMP would degrade the system, but I imagine it would be able to continue with limited capability.
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RFI-EMI-GUY
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Sadly, a few months ago, she was run off by some misogynist comments by two members of RR, one who should have known better. Curiously the rules don't prohibit misogyny and though I complained , nothing was done.
K6GBW
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Well that sucks. Why do some people need to be mean all the time?
RFI-EMI-GUY
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In their true nature I suspect.
That's terrible, she had the best comments and stories and insights, I kind of depended on her being around...
I had some technical questions that I privately messaged her about, she was very thoughtful and helpful with her reply.
I wonder if she realizes how many friends she has here. I guess life is too short to be around jerks.
I was assuming she dropped off because of the nature of her previous work and some of the things that were being discussed were getting too close... Previously when she left it was for similar reasons, and I was assuming she was still watching the threads as a guest and pulling her hair out over some of the things posted (like in this forum).
I was "followed" on RR by people once in a great while, I found it a bit creepy, I can only imagine her situation.
She didn't even say goodbye.
Thanks for the info
Joel
Before any staff steps in: For comments on Lauri, start another topic, probably in the tavern.
RFI-EMI-GUY
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If the mods want to move posts #169 onward to the Tavern under title "What Happened to Lauri?" I would be all for it.
I don't think it's a topic worthy of discussion. Water under the bridge.
wenzeslaus
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that's about it. what else is there to say?
an EMP is simply a regular nuke with a thin casing so you get less bang and more gamma rays.
detonated around 100,000 ft, the effects on the ground were estimated at 50 kV/m for early EMP's but newer EMP's are probably 100-200 kV/m. about half as powerful at the horizon, which is very far because of the high altitude. capabilities are classified so we don't know. very likely that Russia, China, Iran, NK have EMP's as powerful as ours because it's not hard. IMO an EMP attack would thoroughly wreck a country so badly I would say nukes aren't necessary after that. except as a threat to prevent retaliation for the EMP.
probably only need 1 EMP, testing seems to suggest that more would be moot because the first one saturates the upper atmosphere with ions which absorb the gamma rays from subsequent ones, they don't reach the ground, and E3 from the first one already fried everything. unless they want to do 2 a few thousand miles apart.
Sounds like a lot of bother. Send some people into the country that are infected with a rapid-spreading virus and have them ride around on public transportation for a month. The resulting public health emergency would wreck most countries.
Fallout is a product of a low-level explosion lifting tons of radioactive dust into the atmosphere. An upper-atmospheric nuke would produce no fallout and likely not even be seen or heard by most people. I am not suggesting that I know if or how nukes would be used. I just want to make the point that we could have a nuke-caused EMP with no physical damage, no fallout, and no direct, immediate death (other than from pacemakers and medical device failure).
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