Major disaster comms options

[MUTNAV]

Not really. It's just information. People can do what they want with it.

I remember in the 1970s a terror attack that was the magnitude of 9/11 was considered laughable by a lot of folks. I remember books that came out, fiction books that had similar level terror attacks and those books were considered to be so way out there that no one would consider the possibility of the financial center of the US's largest city being hollowed out.

It was considered to be in the realm of conspiracy/wacko/paranoia territory. But 9/11 happened.

I'm not saying EMP is going to happen. Hopefully, it never does. I think the fact that the US would respond in kind to any country that carried out such an attack keeps us safe from that sort of thing ever happening. But disasters do happen from time to time. When the 9 pointer hits the NW US, it will be similar locally to what EMP discussed here would be nationally.

My problem is with the respond in kind part, I do remember in the early 90's when attacks on satellites were being thought about, and the common political thought was that no one will want to go to war over some satellites being knocked out... no U.S. territory being struck so it would be a hard sell for the public.

of course nowadays, take out cell phones and every 12-30- year old will be calling for blood.

Sometimes we in the U.S. under or over-react to things, (compared to how I think at least), the changes seem to go in cycles.

I remember there was a joke about a sign in a bookstore that said something along the lines of 'Apocalyptic and dystopian fictional literature had been moved to the current events section.'

Thanks
Joel

 

[krokus]

I am happy to see the amount of discussion, that was what I hoped for. Especially the scaling of the comms wants/needs over a length of time.

I wanted to see things beyond the local issue, such as a tornado. Even the tornado outbreak that happened in my area, about a week ago, only affected a handful of counties, in concentrated areas. The majority of the communications infrastructure was still useful, even though there were various sized pockets of cellular outage. Beyond the Skywarn aspect, hams were not really needed. The power outages were significant, with over 400k people without power in Michigan, but nothing calamitous.

Seeing the discussions about wide area EMP has shades of FEMA's guide for zombie apocalypse preparation.

Overall, I think hams can be useful in larger scale events, when the infrastructure is affected. We can relay long haul news, administrative info, and health & welfare messages. A modest solar setup, a couple low power tablets for messages, and a POTA style station, can link a shelter to an EOC, or wherever else.

 

[BinaryMode]

I think with the SHTF nuclear scenario being discussed, one would be wise to just stock up on lots and lots of toilet paper for barter ability... LOL! When Venezuela collapsed this was the first to leave the shelf... Carbon based life form chimps are funny...

In my opinion, not all areas of a country or the world will be affected. Thus one shouldn't just give up and say, "I'd rather die." I believe with falllout you will have to stay inside your (well sealed) house for at least two weeks without venturing outside. Once the dust settles you obviously need to avoid the ground zero areas.

Hey, did you know there are a couple places called Hiroshima and Nagasaki that are bustling cities today...?


Yeah, I keep my vacuum tube driven 1960s Hallicrafters shortwave radio (with backup tubes) unplugged and ready to RX anything that may be out there when SHTF... Next on the docket is a ham radio that uses tubes...

 

[n0xvz]

Carbon based life form chimps are funny...

You know...real chimpanzees are carbon-based...or do you know something we don't?

 

[BinaryMode]

Sorry, let me clarify. When ever the inhabited members of this world do stupid things and thus tick me off, I then dub thy a low IQ, carbon-based chimp. In this case, when SARS Cov-2 hit the market, for some stupid reason people were not buying canned non-perishables or pasta, etc. Their primary go-to was TP. And reading how the same thing happened prior to SARS Cov-2 during the collapse of Venezuela, I just have to shake my head like I do on a day by day basis just driving and observing the sheer mass of stupidity that can only be compared to that of the life giving Sun and its monumental amount mass.

About driving toward a nuke blast. One wonders if a 44 Mag would be quicker? Probably quicker than zero-point energy could ever procure... I mean MACH SPEED?! Naaa...

It is human, no Earth creature to want to survive. I'd want to at least try and if I make it help my family then my friends and neighbors. If I somehow got that "metallic taste" in my mouth THEN you contemplate suicide. But not before the incident as if to say "screw it."

 

[CoastalDude]

No one is reallly talking about the mostly likely scenario, the Grid simply gets shut down on purpose ... only you'll think it's entirely down but there's plenty of chatter going on... Everyone thinking that GMRS and HAM is going to be of very little importance are plain wrong, it is going to be the most important thing you have, I won't go into the reasons why. Anyway, great thread ...

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

No one is reallly talking about the mostly likely scenario, the Grid simply gets shut down on purpose ... only you'll think it's entirely down but there's plenty of chatter going on... Everyone thinking that GMRS and HAM is going to be of very little importance are plain wrong, it is going to be the most important thing you have, I won't go into the reasons why. Anyway, great thread ...

I will go a step further and suggest that dusting off those old CB radios and a field expedient antenna will be useful as well.

 

[N4KVL]

I will go a step further and suggest that dusting off those old CB radios and a field expedient antenna will be useful as well.

And likely still hearing Hard Drive getting back to the bench.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

And likely still hearing Hard Drive getting back to the bench.

Huh???

 

[Boombox]

No one is reallly talking about the mostly likely scenario, the Grid simply gets shut down on purpose ... only you'll think it's entirely down but there's plenty of chatter going on... Everyone thinking that GMRS and HAM is going to be of very little importance are plain wrong, it is going to be the most important thing you have, I won't go into the reasons why. Anyway, great thread ...

Yes, but there are still problems with relying on GMRS or Ham radio in such situations.

GMRS is locals only, with ranges of a couple miles at best (depending on terrain), and most people don't have GMRS, or even know what GMRS is. There are only 100K licensed GMRS users in the US, which shows how little widespread it is. Of course, there are probably a lot of unlicensed GMRS radio owners and users, but even at that, it can't be too many people that have them.

As for hams, there are 750K hams in the US and that number is dropping every year, and much of that number is inactive hams. 100K and 750K are pretty small numbers in a nation of 340+ million people.

Most people still have an AM-FM radio, or access to one, even if it's in their car.

The two services may be helpful to those who plan ahead, and want to keep in contact with others they already know, but for general information listening to emergency broadcasts / news on AM and FM radio is still probably a better option.

Of course, it doesn't have to be an either/or proposition. If the Grid gets shut down on purpose, the cell systems will have limited time before their backup power systems are depleted. Repeaters for 2M and other bands may or may not be operational, or operational for long.

I think that if one really wants to be prepared and be able to access information broadcast radio is still the best bet for most people. FEMA has hardened AM and FM stations in most regions, and the AMs are usually ones that also get out at night.

As for the most important thing one has -- I would think that would be having a plan ahead of time, be it food, weapons, water, escape routes, plans of surviving if you stay put, a way of hardening your home against intruders, etc.

Knowledge will mean more to one's survival in these sorts of situations than radio communications.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

The 100K GMRS include family members so the number is easily double that number of operators. GMRS and FRS are interoperable so those 200K GMRS operators can interoperate with neighbors which would multiply out further. Broadcast and NOAA radio are one way communication and does not have the granularity to inform at a local level. GMRS, FRS, CB and ham have potential to inform and organize on a local level.

 

[K6GBW]

Probably for every licensed GMRS operator there are ten that aren't licensed. GMRS is a good tool for reaching out to the neighbors. I gave several of my neighbors FRS radios for Christmas one year. Since we're in earthquake prone territory we have a plan to help each other get by. The last big one was about three weeks worth of scrapping by until the got the roads open again. Took almost a year to rebuild the big freeway bridges.

 

[krokus]

And likely still hearing Hard Drive getting back to the bench.

Is that the guy I hear in Michigan, constantly talking about splatter boxes, "window lickers" & integrity?

I figured it was somebody local was playing audio ripped from YT, since these are obviously broadcasts, not conversation.

 

[N4KVL]

Is that the guy I hear in Michigan, constantly talking about splatter boxes, "window lickers" & integrity?

I figured it was somebody local was playing audio ripped from YT, since these are obviously broadcasts, not conversation.

That's the guy. 10KW station out in the high desert spamming 27.185 all day and night for his CB business.

 

[krokus]

That's the guy. 10KW station out in the high desert spamming 27.185 all day and night for his CB business.

I only noted him in the evenings & weekends here, but I'm only checking when I'm mobile.

If that is him using 10 kW on CB, spamming channel 19 to the point of unusable, the integrity & courteous comments are very ironic.

 

[AK9R]

If that is him using 10 kW on CB, spamming channel 19 to the point of unusable, the integrity & courteous comments are very ironic.

Interesting. But does this answer the OP's question?

 

[samcken]

Hmm . . . I'm losing faith in my semaphore flags. Maybe they need to be bigger with led lights.

 

[K6GBW]

I think what you choose for emergency communicatons really depends on your environment. While everyone should have some sort of AM/FM radio for receiving news the rest can change depending on if you are in a big city, or a small rural town. I'm in the Los Angeles Metro area and I'd fall back to my VHF/UHF/HF ham radio if I lost my phone for any length of time. Thinking back to the 1994 Northridge Earthquake, as soon as the shaking stopped I turned on my handheld radio and started listening to reports from all over the county. My location wasn't affected very badly and I had no idea the quake was as bad as it was until I heard the reports of fires and collapses coming in. I'd also leverage GMRS for neighbors. If I lived in a place like Montanna, where it's small farms every half mile or so, then something like a base CB so that local homes and farms can reach each other during the snow storms might be a better choice. If I really lived off-grid I'd probably have a satellite phone. Everyone needs to do a real, no BS assesment of their needs and act accordingly.

 

[MUTNAV]

I think what you choose for emergency communicatons really depends on your environment. While everyone should have some sort of AM/FM radio for receiving news the rest can change depending on if you are in a big city, or a small rural town. I'm in the Los Angeles Metro area and I'd fall back to my VHF/UHF/HF ham radio if I lost my phone for any length of time. Thinking back to the 1994 Northridge Earthquake, as soon as the shaking stopped I turned on my handheld radio and started listening to reports from all over the county. My location wasn't affected very badly and I had no idea the quake was as bad as it was until I heard the reports of fires and collapses coming in. I'd also leverage GMRS for neighbors. If I lived in a place like Montanna, where it's small farms every half mile or so, then something like a base CB so that local homes and farms can reach each other during the snow storms might be a better choice. If I really lived off-grid I'd probably have a satellite phone. Everyone needs to do a real, no BS assesment of their needs and act accordingly.

I agree,

All IMHO
I would recommend starting with developing emergency plans, and then seeing how communications fit into the plans....

Frankly, a lot of what we are discussing here isn't "emergency" communications (imminent risk of loss of life, limb, eyesight, property, or extreme pain, I'm sure there are others),

I think what we are talking about in general is something else, for example: making contact with family members and friends-neighbors in a disaster (that aren't necessarily in danger), and keeping track of what is going on during a disaster, isn't an emergency in any sense,

But it IS what I want in any type of disaster or contingency.

In a true emergency, (and many of the family contact scenarios) the sat comm (as Mmckenna suggested) is the right way to go.

​

Thanks
Joel

 

[AK9R]

I would recommend starting with developing emergency plans, and then seeing how communications fit into the plans.

IOW, after you work out the plan, see how communications fits into the plan. Use communications as a tool to implement your plan. Don't build a plan around a certain type of communications. I think that too many radio hobbyists see radio as an end to a means when they may be better off considering it as a means to an end.